Prior delayed again

[USSoccer]

Yeah, I don't understand the sentiments towards Prior. Without his pitching arm, he has no baseball career. Does he simply throw caution to the wind and pitch while injured? I'm sure guys have done that while worrying about winning a starting job, only to find that their careers are over because they didn't take preemptive measures.

 

I have no doubts he feels soreness, but I have doubts whether or not he can differentiate between normal soreness and serious soreness, and I have no faith in the Cubs' ability to help him differentiate. Again, he's left games feeling discomfort and soreness, and then been fine enough to take his next turn in the rotation. There is precedent for questioning his own sense of pain.

[Soul]

They wanted a stud, so they raised a wuss.

 

This is so Cubs.

[BigbadB]

Yeah, I don't understand the sentiments towards Prior. Without his pitching arm, he has no baseball career. Does he simply throw caution to the wind and pitch while injured? I'm sure guys have done that while worrying about winning a starting job, only to find that their careers are over because they didn't take preemptive measures.

 

I have no doubts he feels soreness, but I have doubts whether or not he can differentiate between normal soreness and serious soreness, and I have no faith in the Cubs' ability to help him differentiate. Again, he's left games feeling discomfort and soreness, and then been fine enough to take his next turn in the rotation. There is precedent for questioning his own sense of pain.

 

How does one differentiate these pains? If you've never had a torn labrum, how do you know you aren't suffering from one?

 

I had a pain in my kidney area the other day and wondered if I had a serious issue that needed to be addressed. I let it go for a few days and it turns out it was probably just a strain to muscle near my kidney. I havent' felt it since. But, since I've never had a kidney stone, I wouldn't know how much pain or what kind of pain to expect. It sure made me a lot more concerned with that muscle strain than others that weren't near vital organs.

 

With a baseball player, I think you can expect that the concern is dramtatically increased considering that the arm or shoulder that is his livelihood in this game is what is experiencing pains he may have never felt before. I'm giving Prior the benefit of the doubt here.

[UBlink]

Following a visit to Dr. Lewis Yocum, Mark Prior's injury is being called a posterior shoulder strain. He'll undergo an MRI today to attempt to confirm the diagnosis.

Prior was supposed to undergo the MRI yesterday, but he had personal business to attend to in San Diego. The Cubs say they are encouraged by the initial diagnosis. "For me, I'm very pleased," trainer Mark O'Neal said. "There's extremely bad news that could've come out of it. This is a posterior shoulder strain, and we'll deal with it like you would a hamstring strain. Unfortunately, it's in the shoulder. For us, it's pretty good news." Obviously, there's still very good reason to be concerned. The Cubs' ability to understate injuries is becoming legendary. Mar. 16 - 2:11 pm et

 

Bwahahahaha!

 

The Tribune Company must love the credibility chasm here.

 

There has got to be some sort of Sarbanes-Oxley disclosure issue going on here that will force them to sell.

 

Don't think you'd want to sign off on the adequacy of their internal controls?

[TXCubsFan]

Yeah, I don't understand the sentiments towards Prior. Without his pitching arm, he has no baseball career. Does he simply throw caution to the wind and pitch while injured? I'm sure guys have done that while worrying about winning a starting job, only to find that their careers are over because they didn't take preemptive measures.

 

There's a fine line between being injured and having pain or discomfort. My point is, I'm not sure that he knows the difference between the two.

There are pitchers with long careers that deal with ongoing pain. I'm trying not to be cynical however, I do recall Prior saying last year that he's going to have to learn to pitch through pain. I don't see

any change.

 

Here we go again

 

I think he needs to do more in the offseason to get himself ready to pitch.

 

Blueheart,

 

Short, sweet, and on point. =D>

[UBlink]

Yeah, I don't understand the sentiments towards Prior. Without his pitching arm, he has no baseball career. Does he simply throw caution to the wind and pitch while injured? I'm sure guys have done that while worrying about winning a starting job, only to find that their careers are over because they didn't take preemptive measures.

 

There's a fine line between being injured and having pain or discomfort. My point is, I'm not sure that he knows the difference between the two.

There are pitchers with long careers that deal with ongoing pain. I'm trying not to be cynical however, I do recall Prior saying last year that he's going to have to learn to pitch through pain. I don't see

any change.

 

Here we go again

 

I think he needs to do more in the offseason to get himself ready to pitch.

 

Blueheart,

 

Short, sweet, and on point. =D>

 

An illness requiring hospitalization could make that somewhat more difficult.

[A New Era]

Yeah, I don't understand the sentiments towards Prior. Without his pitching arm, he has no baseball career. Does he simply throw caution to the wind and pitch while injured? I'm sure guys have done that while worrying about winning a starting job, only to find that their careers are over because they didn't take preemptive measures.

 

There's a fine line between being injured and having pain or discomfort. My point is, I'm not sure that he knows the difference between the two.

There are pitchers with long careers that deal with ongoing pain. I'm trying not to be cynical however, I do recall Prior saying last year that he's going to have to learn to pitch through pain. I don't see

any change.

 

Here we go again

 

I think he needs to do more in the offseason to get himself ready to pitch.

 

Blueheart,

 

Short, sweet, and on point. =D>

 

An illness requiring hospitalization could make that somewhat more difficult.

 

What was his excuse last year then?

[Blueheart05]

Yeah, I don't understand the sentiments towards Prior. Without his pitching arm, he has no baseball career. Does he simply throw caution to the wind and pitch while injured? I'm sure guys have done that while worrying about winning a starting job, only to find that their careers are over because they didn't take preemptive measures.

 

There's a fine line between being injured and having pain or discomfort. My point is, I'm not sure that he knows the difference between the two.

There are pitchers with long careers that deal with ongoing pain. I'm trying not to be cynical however, I do recall Prior saying last year that he's going to have to learn to pitch through pain. I don't see

any change.

 

Here we go again

 

I think he needs to do more in the offseason to get himself ready to pitch.

 

Blueheart,

 

Short, sweet, and on point. =D>

 

An illness requiring hospitalization could make that somewhat more difficult.

 

He said he had a trip to the ER he wasn't admitted. Having said that, I agree that the illness set him back (I've said so a few times in this thread). However, this isn't the first time he's come to camp with problemsI which makes it hard to give the guy the benefit of the doubt...Hopefully, he will be ready to go by mid April or sooner.

Edited March 17, 2006 by Blueheart05

[Monco]

Maybe next spring they'll start him out with a lighter towel.

[YearofDaCubs]

Maybe next spring they'll start him out with a lighter towel.

:lol: :lol:

[Laura]

He's been injured twice publicly, both time being no-doubters (oddly, both times I was there, both Friday games).

 

The first, when he collided with Giles, still represents the stupidest managing decision I've ever seen, when Dusty sent him out to keep on pitching. Nice. One of many reasons why -- if I were him -- I wouldn't trust my health to the Cubs organization.

 

The second was the line drive off the elbow.

 

Both times, he came back faster than most 'experts' thought he would. I recall a lot of ESPN yelling heads saying that his career was likely over after the line drive.

 

That said, I don't think this is the end of the story. I'm not ready to write him off though or say he's not 'tough enough'. If it's a question of him being off mechanically or whatever, and that leading to problems, maybe it's time to call in someone other than Rothschild.

[stitchface]

I'm absolutely stunned that someone would say Prior is a wuss because he had a sore shoulder checked out. Completely absurd.

[Monco]

They feel that Rothschild is one of the top 5 pitching coaches in the game.They invest 100 mil in payroll,yet they don't seem to do enough to protect their investment.Dustys abuse,Rothschilds cluelessness etc.

[YearofDaCubs]

They feel that Rothschild is one of the top 5 pitching coaches in the game.They invest 100 mil in payroll,yet they don't seem to do enough to protect their investment.Dustys abuse,Rothschilds cluelessness etc.

I'll throw a house party when Dusty leaves town for good. He's that bad.

[Laura]

I'm absolutely stunned that someone would say Prior is a wuss because he had a sore shoulder checked out. Completely absurd.

 

That's the slant of local sports talk radio:

 

1) The Cubs are lying.

 

2) Prior is a wimp.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I'm absolutely stunned that someone would say Prior is a wuss because he had a sore shoulder checked out. Completely absurd.

 

I echo these sentiments.

[Blueheart05]

He's been injured twice publicly, both time being no-doubters (oddly, both times I was there, both Friday games).

 

The first, when he collided with Giles, still represents the stupidest managing decision I've ever seen, when Dusty sent him out to keep on pitching. Nice. One of many reasons why -- if I were him -- I wouldn't trust my health to the Cubs organization.

 

The second was the line drive off the elbow.

 

Both times, he came back faster than most 'experts' thought he would. I recall a lot of ESPN yelling heads saying that his career was likely over after the line drive.

 

That said, I don't think this is the end of the story. I'm not ready to write him off though or say he's not 'tough enough'. If it's a question of him being off mechanically or whatever, and that leading to problems, maybe it's time to call in someone other than Rothschild.

 

I'm also not ready to give up on him. I'm more concerned about his preparation (which can be controlled) than in-season injuries that can happen to anyone.

[Monco]

I'm absolutely stunned that someone would say Prior is a wuss because he had a sore shoulder checked out. Completely absurd.

 

I echo these sentiments.

 

Priors protecting himself.I seem to recall rumors that Priors dad was unhappy the way he was handled(abused) early on with the Cubs.I can't recall the rest.I don't know if that was just something that was thrown out there by people to create speculation that Prior was unhappy in Chicago or it was valid.

[Laura]

I'm also not ready to give up on him. I'm more concerned about his preparation (which can be controlled) than in-season injuries that can happen to anyone.

 

Other than Zambrano and Maddux, I can't think of anyone who has obviously invested in off-season preparation to the contentment of Cubdom. Zambrano has said that the WBC provided an extra incentive to him, and Maddux is entering a contract year (despite the Cubs seemingly urging him to retire).

 

I question the competence of the Cubs far more than the toughness of the individuals.

[stitchface]

He's been injured twice publicly, both time being no-doubters (oddly, both times I was there, both Friday games).

 

The first, when he collided with Giles, still represents the stupidest managing decision I've ever seen, when Dusty sent him out to keep on pitching. Nice. One of many reasons why -- if I were him -- I wouldn't trust my health to the Cubs organization.

 

The second was the line drive off the elbow.

 

Both times, he came back faster than most 'experts' thought he would. I recall a lot of ESPN yelling heads saying that his career was likely over after the line drive.

 

That said, I don't think this is the end of the story. I'm not ready to write him off though or say he's not 'tough enough'. If it's a question of him being off mechanically or whatever, and that leading to problems, maybe it's time to call in someone other than Rothschild.

 

I'm also not ready to give up on him. I'm more concerned about his preparation (which can be controlled) than in-season injuries that can happen to anyone.

 

There is substantial list of pitchers who battled through early career injuries and then came on to dominate when they reached their prime.

[indifferent]

This was posted on Cards Talk:

 

I work at a newspaper and this was on the Associated Press wire. It will be in some papers tomorrow. I thought it was an interesting read...

 

TEMPE, Ariz. — Jim Hendry went the distance on Thursday at Tempe Diablo Stadium, which is more than anyone could say about the Cubs’ starting pitcher, Rich Hill. He labored to get through two innings giving up only five runs.

 

A couple of hours after Hill was finished, as Hendry walked out an outfield gate to the parking lot, joined by his top assistant, Gary Hughes, and baseball information manager Chuck Wasserstrom, the right-field scoreboard read Visitors 7, Angels 6. You wondered what they were talking about as they started the trip back to Mesa.

 

Maybe it was how Matt Murton crushed a double or how Scott Eyre already is pitching like he did last season in San Francisco. Maybe it was Scott Williamson’s smooth ninth inning. But even if they filled dead air with such thoughts, there is only one thing on the mind of those with the Cubs. That, of course, is the uncertain condition of Mark Prior.

 

Prior, who was being counted on to join Carlos Zambrano at the top of a Kerry Wood-less rotation — at least for the time being — will join Wood and newcomer Wade Miller on the Opening Day disabled list. He has been diagnosed with a strain in one of the group of rotator-cuff muscles and won’t even pick up a baseball for at least a week.

 

While Prior was running behind schedule this spring, Hendry’s slumped shoulders evidenced how much he had been counting on having him to help the Cubs get off to a good start.

 

“Obviously I’m disappointed,“ the Cubs’ general manager said during the workmanlike victory over the Angels. “We thought all along that we were going to have him on the second day in Cincinnati. He had not said one word about discomfort (in his shoulder) up until two days ago. Hopefully it won’t be a long setback.“

 

Quite possibly it will be.

 

Both before and after reading the MRI test given Wood, trainer Mark O’Neal and the Cubs’ leaders said they were relieved Dr. Lewis Yocum’s examination Wednesday had not revealed the worst-case scenario — a torn rotator cuff or frayed labrum.

 

“Obviously we’re very pleased,“ O’Neal said.

 

But there’s nothing good about shoulder injuries, especially when they happen to a 25-year-old with the potential to be a perennial All-Star. They are probably even worse for a guy who previously has been shelved with elbow problems.

 

Shoulder injuries are even scarier than elbow injuries, which often can be repaired completely through surgery. The shoulder is quite a bit trickier, and even a seemingly minor strain can turn into a major nightmare.

 

Just ask Mike Sirotka. He was diagnosed with a strained shoulder after the White Sox traded him to the Toronto Blue Jays in 2001 and wound up never throwing another pitch, not in the major leagues, anyway.

 

Prior’s situation does not appear that dire, but the danger is that once you take this detour off the mound one bad road can lead to an even worse one. Prior, Hendry, O’Neal, manager Dusty Baker, pitching coach Larry Rothschild and Cub fans are going to be edgy about Prior until he’s back on the mound as a big-league winner, which won’t happen until May at the earliest.

 

The Cubs are worried enough that they will have Prior huddle with three rather high-priced doctors—Yocum, team orthopedist Stephen Gryzlo and team physician Stephen Adams — on Saturday to determine the best way to treat an injury O’Neal calls a “moderate strain of the subscapularis.“

 

By the way, moderate is not the most comforting description. It’s hard to imagine there is a severe strain, at least not in official terms when describing the injury to reporters. The guess here is there are two levels — mild and moderate, and O’Neal did not say mild.

 

The loss of Prior leaves the Cubs with four healthy starters. Baker says he can get by without a fifth starter until April 15, but the Cubs’ are officially in need of some unexpected help, and there hasn’t been a lot of excess pitching on display in Arizona this spring, in the Cubs’ camp and in others.

 

Longtime scouts say this spring has been unusual because they haven’t seen any eye-popping young pitchers in Arizona. Hill, who looked great last spring, has not this spring. When the Angels’ impressive lineup knocked him around it marked his second straight bad start. This is known as not seizing the moment.

 

Before Thursday’s game, Baker tossed out four candidates for the fifth starter’s spot, including two surprises. Hill and Angel Guzman, who was the flavor of the month in Arizona three years ago, are obvious contenders.

 

But 6-foot-7-inch left-hander Sean Marshall and Korean right-hander Jae Kuk Ryu could move past them with strong performances at the end of spring and the start of the minor-league season.

 

“We have to pull our belts a little tighter and do what we have to do,“ Baker said.

 

What else was he going to say?

[A New Era]

I'm absolutely stunned that someone would say Prior is a wuss because he had a sore shoulder checked out. Completely absurd.

 

I called him a wuss because they are going to let him sit for 10 days because of a sore shoulder. Ok maybe that was harsh. Should I say instead that his body is just not sturdy and they are treating him like a wuss. Is that better?

 

He's not gonna toughen up any be babying him like this. He will get used to, and almost expect to be rested for 10 days any time a little warmth or soreness is felt in the shoulder or arm.

 

I'm not a doctor. So can someone tell me, is there a major risk by pushing him out there to pitch through the pain? Or might it be benificial to have him pitch through it so he can strengthen his arm for the season?

 

I mean what are we going to do. Rest him for 10 days. Then start him on a 3 week strengthening program again. And have him report soreness in the 2nd week. And rest him for another 10 days!? Isn't there a point were we should just say, OK MARK. Common now, pitch through the pain, strengthen your arm for the season. YOU CAN DO IT!!

[NCCubFan]

He's been injured twice publicly, both time being no-doubters (oddly, both times I was there, both Friday games).

That does it; no more Friday games for you if Prior's starting. [-X

[Laura]

He's been injured twice publicly, both time being no-doubters (oddly, both times I was there, both Friday games).

That does it; no more Friday games for you if Prior's starting. [-X

 

I've seen plenty of good games, too. :D

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I'm absolutely stunned that someone would say Prior is a wuss because he had a sore shoulder checked out. Completely absurd.

 

I called him a wuss because they are going to let him sit for 10 days because of a sore shoulder. Ok maybe that was harsh. Should I say instead that his body is just not sturdy and they are treating him like a wuss. Is that better?

 

He's not gonna toughen up any be babying him like this. He will get used to, and almost expect to be rested for 10 days any time a little warmth or soreness is felt in the shoulder or arm.

 

I'm not a doctor. So can someone tell me, is there a major risk by pushing him out there to pitch through the pain? Or might it be benificial to have him pitch through it so he can strengthen his arm for the season?

 

I mean what are we going to do. Rest him for 10 days. Then start him on a 3 week strengthening program again. And have him report soreness in the 2nd week. And rest him for another 10 days!? Isn't there a point were we should just say, OK MARK. Common now, pitch through the pain, strengthen your arm for the season. YOU CAN DO IT!!

 

I'm not a doctor, but I was a student trainer in high school. Much of what I knew then, I've forgotten, but yes there can be a major risk pitching him through pain. Pain is the body's way of saying something is wrong.

 

There is a difference between soreness and pain. Pitchers need to learn to pitch through soreness. They need to be treated and possibly shut down when there is pain.

 

It's really easy to say "suck it up," but this is his future he's dealing with.