Cubs 2025 Season Review/Offseason Preview Thread

[Geographyhater8888]

30 minutes ago, thawv said:

Base running is not factored into wRC+

wRC+ doesn’t factor in base running. Offensive runs combine both offensive and base running runs. I assumed the categories were separate. Offense - Batting and Base Running combined (above average)

Edited November 19, 2025 by Geographyhater8888

[Derwood]

9 hours ago, Tangled Up in Plaid said:

The Angels trading for a pitcher with no chance of being healthy would be very Angels.

They wanted someone who could keep Anthony Rendon company

[CubinNY]

19 hours ago, Bertz said:

Feel free to provide literally anything to back up your argument.  Until then as usual you're basically Cosmo Kramer trying to sound smart talking about writeoffs.

I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. You must be ecstatic with an 82-92 win team. You argue that they are good enough. My argument is that they are not good enough. 6th and 4th is quite an accomplishment. 

[squally1313]

1 hour ago, thawv said:

Base running is not factored into wRC+

I thought the question was why Busch was worth less offensive runs than Tucker even though he had a higher wRC in essentially equivalent PAs. Could be wrong though. 

[Bertz]

14 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. You must be ecstatic with an 82-92 win team. You argue that they are good enough. My argument is that they are not good enough. 6th and 4th is quite an accomplishment. 

You never have any idea what you're talking about

[Geographyhater8888]

2 hours ago, squally1313 said:

I thought the question was why Busch was worth less offensive runs than Tucker even though he had a higher wRC in essentially equivalent PAs. Could be wrong though. 

You were right. I assumed BsR and Offense had separate run values. Offense - Batting and Base Running combined (above average)

Edited November 19, 2025 by Geographyhater8888

[thawv]

1 hour ago, squally1313 said:

I thought the question was why Busch was worth less offensive runs than Tucker even though he had a higher wRC in essentially equivalent PAs. Could be wrong though. 

You are not wrong.  I was replying to the poster that said that base running was the reason that Tucker had a higher wRC+

[Jason Ross]

2 minutes ago, thawv said:

You are not wrong.  I was replying to the poster that said that base running was the reason that Tucker had a higher wRC+

No one said that. 

Quote

Can anyone explain to me how Busch had a 140 wRC+ and was worth 4.6 fewer offensive runs than Tucker with a 136 wRC+ and only 5 more plate appearances?

They were wondering how a player with essentially the same wRC+ could have different offensive run value. Squally explained that offensive run value also factors in base running value - despite the two looking like on FanGraphs that they are entirely separate.

[Bertz]

Definitely does not make the Kittredge decision look better

 

[thawv]

19 hours ago, Jason Ross said:

No one said that. 

They were wondering how a player with essentially the same wRC+ could have different offensive run value. Squally explained that offensive run value also factors in base running value - despite the two looking like on FanGraphs that they are entirely separate.

That's not what I was responding to. 

 

[Cuzi]

56 minutes ago, thawv said:

That's not what I was responding to.

It seems reading comprehension is the issue here.

You responded to someone else responding to the question of why someone with a higher wRC+ was worth less offensive runs.

The question includes wRC+ but the answer is what makes up offensive runs. In fact, the person you quoted never even included the term "wRC+" in their response.

So, if you were responding to someone that claimed "base running was the reason for a higher wRC+" then that someone was in your imagination.

Edited November 20, 2025 by Cuzi

[thawv]

1 hour ago, Cuzi said:

It seems reading comprehension is the issue here.

You responded to someone else responding to the question of why someone with a higher wRC+ was worth less offensive runs.

The question includes wRC+ but the answer is what makes up offensive runs. In fact, the person you quoted never even included the term "wRC+" in their response.

So, if you were responding to someone that claimed "base running was the reason for a higher wRC+" then that someone was in your imagination.

Orginal post by goography: 

"Can anyone explain to me how Busch had a 140 wRC+ and was worth 4.6 fewer offensive runs than Tucker with a 136 wRC+ and only 5 more plate appearances?"

Squally response:

"Baserunning, if you're looking at Fangraphs. 25 SBs for Tucker to Busch's 4 is the main driver I would assume, but know the metric goes into more depth than that."

 

My response

"Base running is not factored into wRC+"

 

•  

 

"Base running is not factored into wRC+"

[Outshined_One]

I hate slow stretches of the offseason. The sniping and mindless arguing are almost as bad around here as it is during losing streaks.

[Cuzi]

2 hours ago, Outshined_One said:

I hate slow stretches of the offseason. The sniping and mindless arguing are almost as bad around here as it is during losing streaks.

Why hate?

I actually find it quite comical that someone can have something explained to them point blank and still go back and quote the entire thing and still not get it. It's pretty amusing.

[Neuby]

16 hours ago, Bertz said:

Definitely does not make the Kittredge decision look better

 

Makes the Bieber deal even more mind boggling.  There was a lot of talk of the Braves letting Iglesias through waivers in August to save money and today he's getting a 16M dollar deal. This makes a Jansen market what a  one year deal in the 16-19m range?

[Bertz]

For anyone hoping this would be substantial...it's not.  A reader email question asked about the Cubs adding "someone like Rob Refsnyder" to pair with Owen Caissie.  Ken was like "yeah that makes a lot of sense".  Didn't feel rumor-y at all.

[thawv]

4 hours ago, Cuzi said:

Why hate?

I actually find it quite comical that someone can have something explained to them point blank and still go back and quote the entire thing and still not get it. It's pretty amusing.

you are an angry disrespectful poster.  For a very long time now. 

Edited November 20, 2025 by thawv

[Cuzi]

35 minutes ago, thawv said:

you are an angry disrespectful poster.  For a very long time now. 

I'm the least angry person you will ever meet.

Disrespectful? Sure. Sometimes. When you work in my line of work I could not care less about feelings. Wrong is wrong and you were wrong. That's a you problem, not a me problem.

[Rcal10]

9 minutes ago, Cuzi said:

I'm the least angry person you will ever meet.

Disrespectful? Sure. Sometimes. When you work in my line of work I could not care less about feelings. Wrong is wrong and you were wrong. That's a you problem, not a me problem.

Never an excuse for disrespect. I don’t care what you do. And what you do shouldn’t come into play here. This is a site for people to post ideas and discuss baseball. There doesn’t need to be snippy comments or “know it all comments” to anyone. 

[Outshined_One]

Thank you all for proving my point.

Let's not take this into putting people into timeout territory, shall we? Enough with the personal attacks.

[thawv]

24 minutes ago, Cuzi said:

I'm the least angry person you will ever meet.

Disrespectful? Sure. Sometimes. When you work in my line of work I could not care less about feelings. Wrong is wrong and you were wrong. That's a you problem, not a me problem.

But I clearly was not wrong.  Base running is not part of wRC+

[Rcal10]

4 minutes ago, Outshined_One said:

Thank you all for proving my point.

Let's not take this into putting people into timeout territory, shall we? Enough with the personal attacks.

Agreed. Back to baseball. If Refsnyder is the right handed bat off the bench the Cubs want AND If he could play a little first base and not be too expensive he would be fine. It would allow them to spend elsewhere. He does but lefties well. If getting him allows them to spend big on a starting pitcher and pen help, he works for me. Maybe bring Castro back too. Bench would be Castro, Refsnyder, back up catcher and ?. Last spot in the line up goes to Cassie or Mo. 

[Bobson Dugnutt]

4 hours ago, thawv said:

But I clearly was not wrong.  Base running is not part of wRC+

Geography Hater’s question was essentially “how is their oWAR so far apart when their wRC+ is so close?” Base running is part of oWAR.

[Stratos]

8 hours ago, Rcal10 said:

Agreed. Back to baseball. If Refsnyder is the right handed bat off the bench the Cubs want AND If he could play a little first base and not be too expensive he would be fine. It would allow them to spend elsewhere. He does but lefties well. If getting him allows them to spend big on a starting pitcher and pen help, he works for me. Maybe bring Castro back too. Bench would be Castro, Refsnyder, back up catcher and ?. Last spot in the line up goes to Cassie or Mo. 

Wouldn't mind bringing back Castro but I'd think he wants more playing time.  Alcantara is also in the convo in the OF, he can play CF and can run and field.  He also smoked LHP in AAA last year.  But not ideal for a rookie as a bat off the bench only playing vs LHP.

I think Mo and Caissie will be in competition of Tucker's spot (LHB vs RHP at DH or RF).  They'll need a RHB to platoon vs LHP in that spot.  They probably sign someone for that, like a Refsnyder, but other RHB like Alcantara and Long could also be in the mix, especially if there's an injury.

[thawv]

8 hours ago, Bobson Dugnutt said:

Geography Hater’s question was essentially “how is their oWAR so far apart when their wRC+ is so close?” Base running is part of oWAR.

Ok, but I never saw oWAR used in his question.