Starting rotation options available now

[Neuby]

Shane Bieber is available

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

22 minutes ago, Neuby said:

Shane Bieber is available

That's very interesting. Only thrown 10 innings in the AZ league so far but man, even an 80% Bieber would be a huge upgrade.

[Geographyhater8888]

On 7/22/2025 at 2:31 PM, Derwood said:

FIP and xFIP are useful, but Rea isn't pitching independently of fielding. In fact, he has 5 gold glovers behind him (technically 4, but I'm counting PCA). As such, his results are going to be better than his peripherals.

He’s a ticking tune bomb especially when the when the winds is blowing out. Outside of Boyd and Shota, the entire rotation you can say the same for. Cubs are 9-2 when Shots and Boyd pitch since June 17 and 6-12 with everyone else and that’s thanks to the changing weather conditions and the offense no longer scoring at a clip of 6 runs/game back in April.

 

this shouldn’t surprise anyone, especially after that soft 18 game stretch from May-June.

Edited July 24, 2025 by Geographyhater8888

[KCCub]

I think a lot of us are huge Wiggins fans and believe he shouldn't be moved unless your landing one of the big controlled fish. Lance seems to support this alluding to his trade value being near or higher than ONKC's, at least to some orgs.  

 

 

[Jason Ross]

11 minutes ago, KCCub said:

I think a lot of us are huge Wiggins fans and believe he shouldn't be moved unless your landing one of the big controlled fish. Lance seems to support this alluding to his trade value being near or higher than ONKC's, at least to some orgs.  

 

 

I usually like Lance. And I like this post from him a bunch. Both on Wiggins but also that Sandy Alcantara is likely a better trade target than fans make him out to be.

[Tryptamine]

20 minutes ago, Jason Ross said:

I usually like Lance. And I like this post from him a bunch. Both on Wiggins but also that Sandy Alcantara is likely a better trade target than fans make him out to be.

Alcantara is a good trade target in the offseason just like Taj Bradley. You do not have time to rework them while in the middle of a tight pennant race and attempting to do so is self sabotage. 

[Jason Ross]

Just now, Tryptamine said:

Alcantara is a good trade target in the offseason just like Taj Bradley. You do not have time to rework them while in the middle of a tight pennant race and attempting to do so is self sabotage. 

I don't know if the fixes are as extensive as people think. His location+, per FG has been on a steady rise all season. He induced 12 swings and misses last night against San Diego and hit 99mph while averaging 98mph. His arm angle is also getting a bit higher, he is now sitting at a 33-degree arm angle in July, up from 31. His prior arm slots sat around 34 degrees. 

In April and May the issues seemed far worse. Today, it feels like we are getting closer and closer to ol' Sandy. He may never recapture a full Cy Young status, but I do think Lance has a point with a short sighted aspect of Alcantara. 

I would still pair him with a Morton/Soroka type as well to hedge bets a little, but I think some have jumped the shark on Alcantara.

[Tryptamine]

9 minutes ago, Jason Ross said:

I don't know if the fixes are as extensive as people think. His location+, per FG has been on a steady rise all season. He induced 12 swings and misses last night against San Diego and hit 99mph while averaging 98mph. His arm angle is also getting a bit higher, he is now sitting at a 33-degree arm angle in July, up from 31. His prior arm slots sat around 34 degrees. 

In April and May the issues seemed far worse. Today, it feels like we are getting closer and closer to ol' Sandy. He may never recapture a full Cy Young status, but I do think Lance has a point with a short sighted aspect of Alcantara. 

I would still pair him with a Morton/Soroka type as well to hedge bets a little, but I think some have jumped the shark on Alcantara.

Even if we go back and ignore April and May, focusing only on June 1st and going forward we're still looking at a 4.92 ERA, granted it does come with better peripherals, a 3.60 FIP and 3.95 xFIP but they can get that out other trade candidates who aren't as risky and who wont require half the return people seem to think Alcantara will. If we're gonna splurge then splurge big on Ryan or Gore and if we're going to go after a minor reclamation project then make it Taj Bradley who was just optioned by the Rays. 

[Rcal10]

I would like to see one controllable pitcher and one rental. Depending on cost and the Cubs willingness to move several higher end prospects the controlled guy could be anyone from Gore, Ryan, Alcantara, Cabrera and maybe even Keller, Bradley or Soriano.The rental can come from Soroka, Kelly, Gallen, Cease, Morton, Lugo or a list of several others that may come available as teams sell. Those moves along with Assad coming back would strengthen the rotation and the pen. Horton and Rea can go to the pen with Assad. Maybe add a bench bat like Castro and finish the season strong. 

[Jason Ross]

58 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

Even if we go back and ignore April and May, focusing only on June 1st and going forward we're still looking at a 4.92 ERA, granted it does come with better peripherals, a 3.60 FIP and 3.95 xFIP but they can get that out other trade candidates who aren't as risky and who wont require half the return people seem to think Alcantara will. If we're gonna splurge then splurge big on Ryan or Gore and if we're going to go after a minor reclamation project then make it Taj Bradley who was just optioned by the Rays. 

I don't want to suggest he is better than Ryan or Gore, but their availability is at best "questionable" and what their trade demands are are equally unknown. I would rather have both of those than Alcantara, myself. 

As it pertains to Taj Bradley, Zumach has said Zombro isn't a fan, so I don't think that will happen. If you want a reclamation project, Zombro is going to be the guy they default to in many ways there. 

But beyond that, as you have noted, the underlying things on Alcantara are much than top-line ERA and we are both smart enough to understand what that means. 

The point isnt that Sandy is my top target, but that I have seen on those own board a reluctance to trade anything of even the smallest value for Alcantara, and that is jumping the shark. Beyond the Ryan and Gore names, there probably isn't another SP that has the upside even in 2025 that Alcantara has if you believe you have an understanding of the changes necessary. I think his value is much higher than people realize and I think he's a better bet than people realize. It's finding the middle ground. I wouldn't trade Wiggins and Rojas for him, but the value of Owen Caissie may be much closer to the value of Alcantara than we realize, both internally with the Cubs and externally league wide. 

[JBears79]

Moving Wiggins would be a braindead move from this org. We are constantly struggling with pitching depth and finding guys to eat innings. Pitching should be the focus for this year and for the future so why deal from a need. Id much rather deal Cassie, Alcantara, Rojas, Ballesteros over Wiggins. We have some depth on the position side so deal from that rather than from our pitchers.

Wiggins and Horton represent our best chance at finally developing a homegrown ace with the frontline starters profile we need. They should be just as untouchable as in my opinion. I'm not moving either for anything short of a young starter with at least 3 years of cost control. 

I think we can land two good starters without dealing either. Our position player pool and some pitchers from our second tier (Gallager, Sanders, Birdsell) plus lotto tickets should be able to land the pitching we need this deadline.

[Geographyhater8888]

36 minutes ago, Jason Ross said:

I don't want to suggest he is better than Ryan or Gore, but their availability is at best "questionable" and what their trade demands are are equally unknown. I would rather have both of those than Alcantara, myself. 

As it pertains to Taj Bradley, Zumach has said Zombro isn't a fan, so I don't think that will happen. If you want a reclamation project, Zombro is going to be the guy they default to in many ways there. 

But beyond that, as you have noted, the underlying things on Alcantara are much than top-line ERA and we are both smart enough to understand what that means. 

The point isnt that Sandy is my top target, but that I have seen on those own board a reluctance to trade anything of even the smallest value for Alcantara, and that is jumping the shark. Beyond the Ryan and Gore names, there probably isn't another SP that has the upside even in 2025 that Alcantara has if you believe you have an understanding of the changes necessary. I think his value is much higher than people realize and I think he's a better bet than people realize. It's finding the middle ground. I wouldn't trade Wiggins and Rojas for him, but the value of Owen Caissie may be much closer to the value of Alcantara than we realize, both internally with the Cubs and externally league wide. 

I like the upside there but my question is what do they do with Horton next season when Steele comes back with another year of control? Steele Boyd Shota Taillon and Horton are already slotted in. It’s nice to have an extra arm, Cubs could definitely use one but the year of control tax causes an interesting dynamic next year instead of a rental and how do they handle the surplus of arms?
 

if we’re talking Gore then Horton would probably be included in a package for him and this isn’t a dilemma.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

The problem with Sandy is that his increased performance risk since the start of the season has almost certainly risen higher than the actual cost to acquire him has fallen.  Pairing him with another SP is fine and all but that's a lot of resources used even before addressing the bullpen or more luxurious additions(a hitter).  

[Jason Ross]

33 minutes ago, Geographyhater8888 said:

I like the upside there but my question is what do they do with Horton next season when Steele comes back with another year of control? Steele Boyd Shota Taillon and Horton are already slotted in. It’s nice to have an extra arm, Cubs could definitely use one but the year of control tax causes an interesting dynamic next year instead of a rental and how do they handle the surplus of arms?
 

if we’re talking Gore then Horton would probably be included in a package for him and this isn’t a dilemma.

I doubt the Cubs are trading Horton for anyone. 

And Jameson Taillon would be easily moved. Maybe some cash will be eaten, but at one year remaining a team will take him on. 

[PackLandVA]

So good options should/will be available and I keep thinking the "big" rotation add will be Adrian Houser.

[gflore34]

2 hours ago, Rcal10 said:

I would like to see one controllable pitcher and one rental. Depending on cost and the Cubs willingness to move several higher end prospects the controlled guy could be anyone from Gore, Ryan, Alcantara, Cabrera and maybe even Keller, Bradley or Soriano.The rental can come from Soroka, Kelly, Gallen, Cease, Morton, Lugo or a list of several others that may come available as teams sell. Those moves along with Assad coming back would strengthen the rotation and the pen. Horton and Rea can go to the pen with Assad. Maybe add a bench bat like Castro and finish the season strong. 

I really like your ideas, they need a decent cost controlled guy to pair up with Shota/Boyd, one whose is better than Rea.  Anyone of those cost controlled guys would qualify, on the rentals give me Soroka or Lugo, I believe Soroka would cost less and may be a higher reward. That's not to take away anything from Lugo, he'd fine behind the trio of Shota/Boyd/cost controlled.  Say such deals go down and Tallion returns, does it mean Rea to the pen and Horton effectively shut down?

[gflore34]

1 hour ago, PackLandVA said:

So good options should/will be available and I keep thinking the "big" rotation add will be Adrian Houser.

I hope not, Houser' a rental, I believe the "big" addition is going to come from the Ryan, Alcantara, Cabrera, Keller, Bradley, Soriano, I'll throw in Severino, pool of names.

Edited July 24, 2025 by gflore34

[Rcal10]

I find the discussion on who the Cubs should bring in so interesting. Between rentals and controlled pitchers they can be so different. You have the high end guys who will cost a lot but pretty certain to be good (Gore and Ryan), then the guys with huge upside but fear of either an injury or they don’t get to the upside (Alcantara and Cabrera), the young guy you hope they can turn into a TOR starter (Soriano and Bradley) and then the steady MOR guy (Keller). Different people want different things. As for rentals you have differences too. Cease would be a higher end buy. Then there is Gallen who has been good for year but not so this year. The veterans who get it done without having impressive underlying numbers, like Lugo and Kelly. Morton is in a category on his own. And then there is Soroka. His actual numbers are poor, but all underlying point to a good pitcher. So which is better? Lugo, who for several years has outperformed his expected numbers and has an era around 3, or Soroka, who despite having great stuff pitches to a 5.00 era. I do think him coming to the Cubs would solve a lot of his problems, but is Lugo a safer pick to stay in the 3.00-3.30 era? I think if they go with 2 pitchers one will come from one group and the other from the other group. Maybe they go high risk in one group and then steady in the other. 

[gflore34]

10 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

I find the discussion on who the Cubs should bring in so interesting. Between rentals and controlled pitchers they can be so different. You have the high end guys who will cost a lot but pretty certain to be good (Gore and Ryan), then the guys with huge upside but fear of either an injury or they don’t get to the upside (Alcantara and Cabrera), the young guy you hope they can turn into a TOR starter (Soriano and Bradley) and then the steady MOR guy (Keller). Different people want different things. As for rentals you have differences too. Cease would be a higher end buy. Then there is Gallen who has been good for year but not so this year. The veterans who get it done without having impressive underlying numbers, like Lugo and Kelly. Morton is in a category on his own. And then there is Soroka. His actual numbers are poor, but all underlying point to a good pitcher. So which is better? Lugo, who for several years has outperformed his expected numbers and has an era around 3, or Soroka, who despite having great stuff pitches to a 5.00 era. I do think him coming to the Cubs would solve a lot of his problems, but is Lugo a safer pick to stay in the 3.00-3.30 era? I think if they go with 2 pitchers one will come from one group and the other from the other group. Maybe they go high risk in one group and then steady in the other. 

Of Lugo or Soroka we prefer Soroka?  I do believe the Cubs will solve a lot of his problems, there's also the boost he'll get in coming to a team in the playoff race.

[Stratos]

4 hours ago, Jason Ross said:

I don't know if the fixes are as extensive as people think. His location+, per FG has been on a steady rise all season. He induced 12 swings and misses last night against San Diego and hit 99mph while averaging 98mph. His arm angle is also getting a bit higher, he is now sitting at a 33-degree arm angle in July, up from 31. His prior arm slots sat around 34 degrees. 

In April and May the issues seemed far worse. Today, it feels like we are getting closer and closer to ol' Sandy. He may never recapture a full Cy Young status, but I do think Lance has a point with a short sighted aspect of Alcantara. 

I would still pair him with a Morton/Soroka type as well to hedge bets a little, but I think some have jumped the shark on Alcantara.

I don't think we can conclude much from 1 start.  His FB velo is still excellent, but you don't get whiffs and K's from FB or FB velo  His FB is getting mashed.  His control has been good recently, he still generates lots of groundballs.  He's not getting whiffs or chase and thus K's this season, even over the last month or 2.  His secondaries aren't back to where they were for whatever reason.  Cade Horton is getting whiffs and chase but not K's, but Alcantara isn't getting any of the 3.

He has upside but every FO in the league knows that, so I think you're going to pay for that upside.  Right now I think he's an average to maybe slightly above-average SP with upside for more.

[Stratos]

17 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

I find the discussion on who the Cubs should bring in so interesting. Between rentals and controlled pitchers they can be so different. You have the high end guys who will cost a lot but pretty certain to be good (Gore and Ryan), then the guys with huge upside but fear of either an injury or they don’t get to the upside (Alcantara and Cabrera), the young guy you hope they can turn into a TOR starter (Soriano and Bradley) and then the steady MOR guy (Keller). Different people want different things. As for rentals you have differences too. Cease would be a higher end buy. Then there is Gallen who has been good for year but not so this year. The veterans who get it done without having impressive underlying numbers, like Lugo and Kelly. Morton is in a category on his own. And then there is Soroka. His actual numbers are poor, but all underlying point to a good pitcher. So which is better? Lugo, who for several years has outperformed his expected numbers and has an era around 3, or Soroka, who despite having great stuff pitches to a 5.00 era. I do think him coming to the Cubs would solve a lot of his problems, but is Lugo a safer pick to stay in the 3.00-3.30 era? I think if they go with 2 pitchers one will come from one group and the other from the other group. Maybe they go high risk in one group and then steady in the other. 

The Cubs typically acquire players who provide the best value for the cost and i assume they'll do that here.  They did it with Stroman, Imanaga, Rea, Boyd, and did the same with previous trades  A year or 2 of extra control will be baked into the cost of the player and the Cubs will calculate that.

The Cubs don't have much control over what other teams will demand for an SP.   I don't really care who they acquire as SP as long as they're at least solid and come at good cost.

[Dfan25]

I just don’t  think Alcantara is worth it tbh . Marlins aren’t going to sell low here . If he ends up with the Cubs , people will be really upset at the return Marlins get . 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2025 by Dfan25

[Dfan25]

While I like Gore , the strikeouts have really gone down . Is this perhaps a sign that workload is starting to get to him ?  I did read that last year he did the same thing . 
 

[Dfan25]

3 hours ago, PackLandVA said:

So good options should/will be available and I keep thinking the "big" rotation add will be Adrian Houser.

I be surprised if that were the case . I could see a Houser type as a 2nd add , but not the main one . I am expecting 2 SP and 1?reliever added ( maybe 2 depending on how they see Pomeranz ) going forward 

[Dfan25]

17 hours ago, Neuby said:

Shane Bieber is available

As the 2nd pitcher added , I be thrilled with Bieber