Cubs hire Counsell

[ToolDRT]

I’m just not sure I see enough variance in manage to manger to make this change and spend all that extra money (which better damn well not be taken from payroll). David Ross didn’t sign Trey Mancini to a two year contract.

David Ross didn’t sign Tucker Barnhart to a contract any normal person hated instantly when it was announced.

Eric Hosmer being another. And the worst, Tallion who were both stuck with and sucks. 
 

Honestly, to me, it just feels like another desperate attempt for Jed to act like Theo and duplicate the Maddon/Renteria move. 
 

Having said that, I’m going to admit to being extremely biased here as I like David Ross and cannot stand Jed Hoyer as a baseball ops leader. 
 

I will shut up now. 

[chibears55]

Wonder who Counsell will add as hitting coach and especially pitching coach with the young guys up and coming up ?

[Jason Ross]

3 minutes ago, chibears55 said:

Wonder who Counsell will add as hitting coach and especially pitching coach with the young guys up and coming up ?

Dustin Kelly (hitting coach) and Tommy Hottovoy (pitching coach) are still under contract. The Cubs added John Mallee back to the staff this weekend, apparently when they were finalizing a deal with Craig Counsell. I'd assume that wasn't done in a vacuum either. I think all three will remain, unless Hottovoy takes the Breslow spot in the FO (which has some speculation but no noise outside of just internet talk).

Cubs need a bench coach. I'd assume that will be a Craig choice.

Edited November 7, 2023 by 1908_Cubs

[Cubfanintheknow]

1 minute ago, 1908_Cubs said:

Dustin Kelly (hitting coach) and Tommy Hottovoy (pitching coach) are still under contract. 

So was David Ross. Just sayin...

[Bobson Dugnutt]

FWIW, here’s what Sharma had to say about the coaching staff on The Athletic:

 

Quote

How Counsell will shape the coaching staff is to be determined as well. Many of the coaches are under contract for next year and beyond. The hope is that the majority will be retained by Counsell. Pitching coach Tommy Hottovy is viewed as one of the best in the business, and the Cubs seemed to finally find some stability at hitting coach after Dustin Kelly had success connecting with players in his first year on the job.

But there could be defections by those who are loyal to Ross. Counsell has a long history with his bench coach in Milwaukee, Pat Murphy. Murphy managed Counsell at Notre Dame and also has a history with Hoyer, who hired Murphy as a special assistant early in his two-year stint as San Diego Padres GM. Murphy is a candidate to replace Counsell as manager in Milwaukee, but could also find himself in Chicago were he not to land that job.

 

[Jason Ross]

Just now, Cubfanintheknow said:

So was David Ross. Just sayin...

Correct. However, it would seem likely that the Cubs aren't trying to fire a coach per day, and would likely have let them go. Tommy Hottovoy has gotten rave reviews in Chicago, so he's probably only getting promoted. And the Cubs just brought back into the fold John Mallee. It would go to assume that the Cubs would have relieved Dustin Kelly in any event he was being fired when they did the same to Ross.

[Cubfanintheknow]

36 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

Correct. However, it would seem likely that the Cubs aren't trying to fire a coach per day, and would likely have let them go. Tommy Hottovoy has gotten rave reviews in Chicago, so he's probably only getting promoted. And the Cubs just brought back into the fold John Mallee. It would go to assume that the Cubs would have relieved Dustin Kelly in any event he was being fired when they did the same to Ross.

Counsell will probably have a say. He won't ultimately decide, nit he'll at least get a chance to plead his case for people he truly wants. 

ETA: Counsell probably has a pretty good read on who the current Cubs coaches are. If nothing else, he'll have an idea on how to work with them, whether he has a say or not.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Cubfanintheknow

[UMFan83]

2 hours ago, Bobson Dugnutt said:

FWIW, here’s what Sharma had to say about the coaching staff on The Athletic:

 

 

I'll be quite sad if we lost Hottovy in this.  He's survived one administration change, but this one is a little different as last time it was hiring someone Hottovy had a relationship with before. Hope he's priority number 1

[Stratos]

7 hours ago, UMFan83 said:

What a day to be off the grid. 
 

At the end of the day, if you are the manager overseeing a historic (to some degree) September collapse then you risk this happening. 

Obviously some of the collapse was injuries and pen fatigure, but in the end of season presser Hoyer mentioned the uncharacteristic play of many players making defensive mistakes and lacking of hitting in high leverage/RISP, which they had excelled at during the summer push.  The pen troubles are on Hoyer based on clear lack of depth, and its hard to blame defensive miscues on Ross for even Gold Glove caliber guys making bad plays.  They probably were just trying too hard, but fatigue could also have been an issue which was on Ross.

When Ross had clear roles defined in the pen I thought his pen handling was fine.  Some of his moves when the pen struggled, like continuing to rely on Fulmer after some blown saves, were odd, but I guess also somewhat

I thought his lineups were pretty good most of the time.  The bunts were often weird though.  He ran the running game well.

The Cubs seemed to have a well functioning coaching staff and positive dugout vibe.  I dont think Ross deserved to get fired but it's hard not to think it's an upgrade.  Maybe the Cubs thought he wasn't the ideal guy to break in the young position guys coming up in the years ahead, I really don't know, I didn't have a huge problem with his approach, but maybe they butt heads .  We'll never know.

[Stratos]

Cubs.com says Counsell was raised in Wisconsin, so location may have played a part in this, along with the money.

https://www.mlb.com/cubs/news/craig-counsell-new-cubs-manager

Also of note:  both Brandon Woodruff and Corbin Burnes are FA's next offseason.

[Y2J]

4 hours ago, ToolDRT said:

I’m just not sure I see enough variance in manage to manger to make this change and spend all that extra money (which better damn well not be taken from payroll). David Ross didn’t sign Trey Mancini to a two year contract.

David Ross didn’t sign Tucker Barnhart to a contract any normal person hated instantly when it was announced.

Eric Hosmer being another. And the worst, Tallion who were both stuck with and sucks. 
 

Honestly, to me, it just feels like another desperate attempt for Jed to act like Theo and duplicate the Maddon/Renteria move. 
 

Having said that, I’m going to admit to being extremely biased here as I like David Ross and cannot stand Jed Hoyer as a baseball ops leader. 
 

I will shut up now. 

Ross absolutely blew it down the stretch. 7 games against the Diamondbacks and we pretty well handed them a playoff spot. 

[UK]

9 hours ago, Nolansomebody said:

Can't wait for this post to age like milk.

I reserve the right to be consistently wrong.

[jersey cubs fan]

13 hours ago, Cuzi said:

Who cares about how much money the manager makes? His salary affects nothing.

Theoretically it affects nothing, except if you have a baseball operations budget. 

[Bryants Disco Ball]

With Ross in the final year of his contract, it made sense if they already knew they weren’t likely to extend him. 
 

If you have the manager you want most available right now, you get him rather than letting Ross go next year and having a lesser candidate as a replacement. 
 

Sort of like signing a big money free agent a year earlier than you planned because the following year’s free agent   group is underwhelming. 

[BigbadB]

My phone notified me that Counsell was not signing with the Brewers or the other team that was hard after him, and that the team that signed him will shock you. I didn't even click the link because I knew it wasn't the Cubs. I get just about every Cub fan Cubs page notification, and somehow this random Google Sports notification beat every Cub fan Cub page notification. Weird. 

Craig Counsell was face punchable for that horrid batting stance. Other than that, much respect for his game and managing skills. Happy to have him on board. 

Ross played too much small ball, made too many head scratching decisions with the bullpen, and didn't play the kids enough. I was ready for him to be gone. 

[Tim]

7 hours ago, Stratos said:

...Obviously some of the collapse was injuries and pen fatigure...When Ross had clear roles defined in the pen I thought his pen handling was fine.  Some of his moves when the pen struggled, like continuing to rely on Fulmer after some blown saves, were odd...

I'm most upset that he didn't lean on Little more than he did. Yes, he had control issues, but no worse that Cuas. If he used some of his other assets in the pen, the primary guys may have held up better.

[squally1313]

8 hours ago, Y2J said:

Ross absolutely blew it down the stretch. 7 games against the Diamondbacks and we pretty well handed them a playoff spot. 

Cubs offense in the 7 games against Arizona: .212/.285/.329, for a 614 OPS. This is obviously David Ross' fault. 

[Stratos]

51 minutes ago, Tim said:

I'm most upset that he didn't lean on Little more than he did. Yes, he had control issues, but no worse that Cuas. If he used some of his other assets in the pen, the primary guys may have held up better.

I also would liked to have seen Little used more.  But the late inning guys wore down through the summer, there wasn't really other guys to count on in close games then.  Alzolay and Leiter were toast by star of Sept

[gocubs218]

8 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

Cubs offense in the 7 games against Arizona: .212/.285/.329, for a 614 OPS. This is obviously David Ross' fault. 

I mean, this goes back to not playing the young guys instead of the “guys who got us here” when the guys who got us here weren’t hitting. I also remember several plays in CF where PCA’s defense could have made the difference in that huge Arizona outfield. 

[squally1313]

Just now, gocubs218 said:

I mean, this goes back to not playing the young guys instead of the “guys who got us here” when the guys who got us here weren’t hitting. I also remember several plays in CF where PCA’s defense could have made the difference in that huge Arizona outfield. 

I assume in super important games down the stretch you're going to want Happ, Swanson, Hoerner, Suzuki, and Bellinger in the lineup. Plus Gomes is 6. Candelario is seven? If you think PCA and Canario and their 6 hits total this year change things in a seven game sample, then yes, sure, managers are the most important thing in the world. 

[cl smooth]

nsfw since they use bad words. 

[jersey cubs fan]

9 minutes ago, cl smooth said:

nsfw since they use bad words. 

I wasn’t that excited about the new manager but now I am. 

[PeanutPunch33]

For me this move is as significant as getting Soto. Bellinger or anybody else.  If the Cubs got those players I can see a scenario where they miss the playoffs.

With CC it’s hard to imagine them not a playoff team almost right away.  Even with no other changes. He really is that good 

[CubinNY]

8 minutes ago, jersey cubs fan said:

I wasn’t that excited about the new manager but now I am. 

BN has some great ones too.

https://www.bleachernation.com/cubs/2023/11/07/brewers-fans-craig-counsell/

[jersey cubs fan]

8 minutes ago, PeanutPunch33 said:

For me this move is as significant as getting Soto. Bellinger or anybody else.  If the Cubs got those players I can see a scenario where they miss the playoffs.

With CC it’s hard to imagine them not a playoff team almost right away.  Even with no other changes. He really is that good 

Yeah no, he’s not anywhere close to that good