Ohtani to Dodgers for an ungodly amount of money

[thawv]

15 minutes ago, 17 Seconds said:

i don't get how this is even that different from other big free agents from past offseasons. we know the teams in on him, we have a general idea of what he's going to get, and it's only december 6th, so it's not like he's taking forever. it feels like every other big FA to me.

You really don't see any difference?  Ok....

[17 Seconds]

1 minute ago, thawv said:

You really don't see any difference?  Ok....

what are the big differences? 

[thawv]

8 minutes ago, 17 Seconds said:

what are the big differences? 

No other FA went in to hiding.  No other FA made everything a secret.  No other FA threatened teams with not selecting them if they spoke of their time with him.

 

I'm not responding on the matter anymore after this.  It's not you at all.  It's just going to cause problems on this page. 

[17 Seconds]

2 minutes ago, thawv said:

No other FA went in to hiding.  No other FA made everything a secret.  No other FA threatened teams with not selecting them if they spoke of their time with him.

 

I'm not responding on the matter anymore after this.  It's not you at all.  It's just going to cause problems on this page. 

went into hiding? we know plenty of details on who he's been meeting with and when. you're all worked up over one report that he might hold it against teams if they go public

every free agent is secretive, that's how free agency works

 

[ILMindState]

2 hours ago, thawv said:

Are you implying that he doesn't LOVE all this attention that he's getting by hiding out?  He's played in LA for 6 years and is the biggest thing in the city!  He LOVES the attention.

So him wanting to keep things low key means he loves attention? You're really just reaching for a reason to judge and dislike someone you don't know.  Let go of that hate man, it's not healthy.

[CubbyBlue2008]

12 minutes ago, ILMindState said:

So him wanting to keep things low key means he loves attention? You're really just reaching for a reason to judge and dislike someone you don't know.  Let go of that hate man, it's not healthy.

Also, the Angels aren’t in LA. They are in Orange County. Hardly anybody in LA actually cares about the Angels and he’s absolutely not the biggest star here. I can think of 10 LA athletes off the cuff that get more attention here. If anything, picking the Angels shows he wants less attention.

Edited December 6, 2023 by CubbyBlue2008

[ToolDRT]

And where is the tour of wrigley or the spring facility featuring our manger?

 

 

Edited December 6, 2023 by ToolDRT

[Brian707]

1 minute ago, username said:

Can't imagine that a facilities tour would move any needles at all.  Like... yep, we've got a clubhouse and everyone gets their very own locker!  Look to your right for the water fountains, gym is down the hall and the pisser is on your right.  Any questions?

The point is if he is visiting the stadium he is serious about signing there. And as far as we know he has not come to Wrigley yet.

[Rob]

6 minutes ago, Brian707 said:

The point is if he is visiting the stadium he is serious about signing there. And as far as we know he has not come to Wrigley yet.

We also have no reliable information that he hasn't come to Wrigley, or doesn't plan to.

[Bertz]

6 minutes ago, Brian707 said:

The point is if he is visiting the stadium he is serious about signing there. And as far as we know he has not come to Wrigley yet.

He visited LA on Friday, San Fran on Saturday, TBD on Sunday, and the Jay's FL facility on Monday.

Given that Jed was late to the meetings pretty decent chance it was Sunday.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

24 minutes ago, Brian707 said:

The point is if he is visiting the stadium he is serious about signing there. And as far as we know he has not come to Wrigley yet.

I've gone on a lot of college visits in places my kids never had an intention of calling home.

[Rcal10]

38 minutes ago, Brian707 said:

The point is if he is visiting the stadium he is serious about signing there. And as far as we know he has not come to Wrigley yet.

Where does Ohtani live when he is in the US? Is it LA? I would guess it would be very easy for him to get a stadium tour there the day before he met all the teams. And we don’t know if he was in Wrigley, tbf. I mean, Cubs aren’t going to get him, but this criticism of them not putting an honest effort in is uncalled for. It was always a long shot, but IMO they went all in on their effort. 

[Cuzi]

2 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

Where does Ohtani live when he is in the US? Is it LA? I would guess it would be very easy for him to get a stadium tour there the day before he met all the teams. And we don’t know if he was in Wrigley, tbf. I mean, Cubs aren’t going to get him, but this criticism of them not putting an honest effort in is uncalled for. It was always a long shot, but IMO they went all in on their effort. 

Did they go all in?

They may have done the whole song and dance with showing him around, selling him on the city, selling him on the direction and future of the Cubs, and showing him where he fits in... but he's still debating on where he's going and the rumors surrounding the Cubs are less than promising. So did they really go all in or did they do their usual we'll give you less years and slightly higher AAV at a $100M discount... sound good?

[Rcal10]

3 minutes ago, Cuzi said:

Did they go all in?

They may have done the whole song and dance with showing him around, selling him on the city, selling him on the direction and future of the Cubs, and showing him where he fits in... but he's still debating on where he's going and the rumors surrounding the Cubs are less than promising. So did they really go all in or did they do their usual we'll give you less years and slightly higher AAV at a $100M discount... sound good?

I’d they didn’t there will be plenty of time to criticize them. And I will be doing so as well. But right now people are criticizing them as if they know they didn’t go all in. And that is just not been proven yet. 

[squally1313]

18 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

I’d they didn’t there will be plenty of time to criticize them. And I will be doing so as well. But right now people are criticizing them as if they know they didn’t go all in. And that is just not been proven yet. 

And it won't be, definitively, so this is all stupid. Setting a standard of 'we must beat out all 29 other teams for the coolest free agent player in maybe baseball history' is basically just people looking to complain about something. 

[Cuzi]

13 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

And it won't be, definitively, so this is all stupid. Setting a standard of 'we must beat out all 29 other teams for the coolest free agent player in maybe baseball history' is basically just people looking to complain about something. 

It's not just missing out on Ohtani, It's the past few years of showing reluctance to match the market as a top 5 revenue organization in baseball. It's the pivot to guys like Glasnow and Hoskins, There is nothing about the way this organization is being run that leaves any sort of confidence in turning things around.

People want to act like we are trying to emulate the Dodgers or Astros. We dont. We dont have a Betts. We dont have a Freeman. We dont develop players near the level of those 2 organizations and we damn sure dont commit to the ones that do develop. We are over here chasing down Mancini's and Barnhart's on multi year deals. We are giving marginal players like Ian Happ NTCs. We are crossing our fingers half a dozen AA prospects succeed at an exceptionally high rate.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Cuzi

[Rex Buckingham]

The definitive statements about what they are or are not offering Ohtani are just complete speculation. Nobody but the FO and the players/agents that receive the offers knows the details. 

[Cubfanintheknow]

2 hours ago, Rcal10 said:

Where does Ohtani live when he is in the US? Is it LA? I would guess it would be very easy for him to get a stadium tour there the day before he met all the teams. And we don’t know if he was in Wrigley, tbf. I mean, Cubs aren’t going to get him, but this criticism of them not putting an honest effort in is uncalled for. It was always a long shot, but IMO they went all in on their effort. 

FWIW... This is what Wrigley looks like right now. Not much baseball feels at the moment.

[CubbyBlue2008]

Tired of hearing quotes like this every offseason. We are never going to get elite talent when this is always the soundbite after.

EDIT: I know this is the right thing for him to say and you should always plan to pivot if Plan A isn’t possible. However, it’s annoying that Plan A never comes to fruition. It’s always Plan B with this team.

Edited December 7, 2023 by CubbyBlue2008

[Nolansomebody]

Waiting for someone to sign Ohtani(Cubs or not)

[squally1313]

3 hours ago, Cuzi said:

It's not just missing out on Ohtani, It's the past few years of showing reluctance to match the market as a top 5 revenue organization in baseball. It's the pivot to guys like Glasnow and Hoskins, There is nothing about the way this organization is being run that leaves any sort of confidence in turning things around.

People want to act like we are trying to emulate the Dodgers or Astros. We dont. We dont have a Betts. We dont have a Freeman. We dont develop players near the level of those 2 organizations and we damn sure dont commit to the ones that do develop. We are over here chasing down Mancini's and Barnhart's on multi year deals. We are giving marginal players like Ian Happ NTCs. We are crossing our fingers half a dozen AA prospects succeed at an exceptionally high rate.

The main gap between us and the Astros and Dodgers is that we went years without producing any supplemental talent in our minor league system, had to find expensive bandaids to keep the championship core together, and then it all kinda blew up. If you want to be pissed at the front office and the organizational approach, that's where the main issue lies. It's getting better, but it was bad for a long time. Cubs drafts by top BWAR producer:

• 2015: Ian Happ, 14.1, Scott Effross the only other positive contributor 
• 2016: Davis Daniel, 0.5 
• 2017: Keegan Thompson, 2.1 
• 2018: Nico Hoerner, 11.6, no other major league players 
• 2019: No major leaguers, no one particularly promising

Five years with 2 players, one of which, according to you, is 'marginal'. Not great!

The biggest free agent signing in Astros history is Carlos Lee in 2006. Altuve was their largest deal ever at $151m. Alvarez and Bregman also got large deals. All three came through the system. 

Freeman's deal was smaller than Dansby Swanson's (who had the best year of all the shortstops out there last year), and is their biggest actual free agency contract in history (Betts and Kershaw signed extensions for more) (admittedly, for about 3 more days).

The player advancement infrastructure just hasn't been at all enough to match up with those teams (who are, by a decent gap, easily the best two organizations in the last 5-10 years). I think we're comfortably in the next tier, and whether or not we sign Ohtani isn't going to change my opinion on that. 

 

[Irrelevant Dude]

1 hour ago, squally1313 said:

The main gap between us and the Astros and Dodgers is that we went years without producing any supplemental talent in our minor league system, had to find expensive bandaids to keep the championship core together

The most expensive of which being Jose Quintana, a desperate attempt to overpay in talent for a cost-controlled starter who wasn't very good and cost the Cubs a future ace plus a solid (albeit injury prone) outfielder.

[Bobson Dugnutt]

16 minutes ago, The20thK said:

Probably the most accurate assessment of who the Cubs have been. But you left out Howard in 2020.

 

Hopefully some of that has changed.  With Wicks, Horton and Shaw. 

I’m confused by this. Ed Howard? He hasn’t advanced past A ball.

[jersey cubs fan]

7 minutes ago, Bobson Dugnutt said:

I’m confused by this. Ed Howard? He hasn’t advanced past A ball.

He’s citing another awful draft pick 

[Bobson Dugnutt]

3 minutes ago, jersey cubs fan said:

He’s citing another awful draft pick 

Ah, got it. Squally was naming positive bWAR contributors, so I thought I was forgetting someone else named Howard. Which would have been possible, because I was pretty certain Davis Daniel was someone squally made up.