Cubs trade Eloy, Cease, others for Quintana

[jersey cubs fan]

Is this the start of one of those 'Geovany Soto' things again?

no

[Gilby]

Huh, I thought Eloy was putting up better numbers than he is. I mean I'm not going to pretend like he's not an awesome prospect but with the groundball issues that have been mentioned, and I always thought it was weird how much more LF he's played than RF in his career, this deal feels pretty sweet.

[cubsclapp]

Huh, I thought Eloy was putting up better numbers than he is. I mean I'm not going to pretend like he's not an awesome prospect but with the groundball issues that have been mentioned, and I always thought it was weird how much more LF he's played than RF in his career, this deal feels pretty sweet.

 

The path to him being even a 3-WAR player will be very difficult. It's hard to see him being better than average defensively, and he plays a position(s) where finding very good to great offensive production is not hard.

 

Going by FanGraphs' right fielder and left fielder rankings, there are 26 qualified corner outfielders with at least an .800 OPS. It's like what we always say with Schwarber. To carry much value, he's going to really, really have to hit.

 

That's how it's likely going to be for Eloy too. And we know he's fully capable of being a monster, but just saying he pretty much has to be in order to ever be worth over a couple wins.

[UMFan83]

 

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Thats-Gold-Jerry-Gold-Kenny-Bania-Seinfeld-Quote.gif

[Little Slide Rooter]

On a related note, is it a safe bet that we won't be seeing Brett Anderson in a Cubs uniform again?

[Agony and Ivy]

That Brewerfan thread is delightful. They're so glad the Cubs traded prospects for a good player since that means the prospects can't be good players for the Cubs or be traded for a good player later. Some also seem to think Quintana-caliber pitchers are regularly reaching Free Agency.

 

Man, you ain't lyin!

 

So the Cubs have officially depleted their minor league system and no longer have any top 100 prospects. All for a guy they rented for a month (Chapman) and for a pitcher who is no more than their #3 on a struggling pitching staff. Talk about desperate. I would have been irate if we gave up Brinson and another top player for Quintana. He is over rated IMO. Please let me know how getting a #3 pitcher helps out their struggling offense and terrible defense. If we are giving up top prospects like this, it better be an Archer/Stroman type.

 

Looking at the Cubs, knowing they had Eloy Jimenez yet to come up made me upset and jealous. This will be a trade they will regret in a year or two. This guy will be a 40+ hr masher with a great BA and OPS. Thank you Theo for getting desperate. Eloy was destroying field light bulbs in the homer run derby and during games. some serious power.

 

My favorite take is the terrible defense one. Cubs currently 4th in DRS at 23 and the Brewers are 15th with 4....

[CoolHandLuke]

I'm so sick of hearing guys like Kaplan talk about how Quintana isn't an ace and the Cubs paid the price of a true number one starter for someone that isn't an ace.

 

1. What is these guy's definition of an ace?

2. How many guys fit their definition?

3. Would Eloy and Cease be enough to get one?

 

(Answers: they don't know, approximately 4, hell no)

 

Really though, who is an ace? Kershaw, Scherzer, Kluber, Sale?

[Agony and Ivy]

I'm so sick of hearing guys like Kaplan talk about how Quintana isn't an ace and the Cubs paid the price of a true number one starter for someone that isn't an ace.

 

1. What is these guy's definition of an ace?

2. How many guys fit their definition?

3. Would Eloy and Cease be enough to get one?

 

(Answers: they don't know, approximately 4, hell no)

 

Really though, who is an ace? Kershaw, Scherzer, Kluber, Sale?

 

Kaplan is a clueless moron and so is Silvy. I used to listen to them all the time but I just can't, I follow Silvy on Twitter simply because he's a meatball and it's blast to call him out on it.

 

I've always subscribed to the idea that there are 12 aces in the majors at any given time. I don't know where I got this number or why, but I'm pretty sure I heard it once and stuck with it. Since he made his debut in 2012, Quintana is 12th in fWAR, which I actually didn't know until I just looked it up. He's so much closer to being an ace than not being an ace, it's amazing these idiots get paid to spew dumb horsefeathers on the radio and tv.

[Bull]

I'm so sick of hearing guys like Kaplan talk about how Quintana isn't an ace and the Cubs paid the price of a true number one starter for someone that isn't an ace.

 

1. What is these guy's definition of an ace?

2. How many guys fit their definition?

3. Would Eloy and Cease be enough to get one?

 

(Answers: they don't know, approximately 4, hell no)

 

Really though, who is an ace? Kershaw, Scherzer, Kluber, Sale?

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/evaluating-the-2016-prospects-chicago-cubs/

 

ApparentlY it's 6war. Not that I agree, but at least here's someone trying to define it.

[KingCubsFan]

I'm so sick of hearing guys like Kaplan talk about how Quintana isn't an ace and the Cubs paid the price of a true number one starter for someone that isn't an ace.

 

1. What is these guy's definition of an ace?

2. How many guys fit their definition?

3. Would Eloy and Cease be enough to get one?

 

(Answers: they don't know, approximately 4, hell no)

 

Really though, who is an ace? Kershaw, Scherzer, Kluber, Sale?

 

Kaplan is a clueless moron and so is Silvy. I used to listen to them all the time but I just can't, I follow Silvy on Twitter simply because he's a meatball and it's blast to call him out on it.

 

I've always subscribed to the idea that there are 12 aces in the majors at any given time. I don't know where I got this number or why, but I'm pretty sure I heard it once and stuck with it. Since he made his debut in 2012, Quintana is 12th in fWAR, which I actually didn't know until I just looked it up. He's so much closer to being an ace than not being an ace, it's amazing these idiots get paid to spew dumb horsefeathers on the radio and tv.

 

The only reason he's not considered an ace is because 1) he doesn't throw hard, and 2) he doesn't have some type of defining playoff performance. It also doesn't help that he was on the same team as Sale, who is one of the few pitchers actually better than him.

[JennieGarthAlgar]

 

Ahhhh, how could anyone stay mad at these guys?!?

 

Ill see myself out

[Clem Fandango]

This Quintana fella is pretty good

[PosterToBeNamedLater]

[We Got The Whole 9]

[emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23]

[We Got The Whole 9]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/projecting-the-prospects-in-the-jose-quintana-trade/

 

KATOH is thinking we possibly fleeced the Sox

[sneakypower]

his start yesterday (83) was 2nd-best game score on the season for the team, behind Lester's CG against the Giants (85) in May

[Aaron_Kennelly]

his start yesterday (83) was 2nd-best game score on the season for the team, behind Lester's CG against the Giants (85) in May

 

I saw on twitter that it was his second-best game score of his career.

[doublebubble]

this trade is one month away from being the worst trade in Cubs history.

[Cubswin11]

this trade is one month away from being the worst trade in Cubs history.

Eloy's HOF induction is a month away, huh? Man time flies

[Aaron_Kennelly]

[cubsclapp]

this trade is one month away from being the worst trade in Cubs history.

 

Hyperbole much?

 

I feel like people are generally underestimating how much Eloy will have to hit to be highly valuable. He’s absolutely capable of it because he’s a monster and a special hitting talent, but he plays a position everyone hits. Corner players that hit a lot aren’t difficult to find.

 

But it’s concerning that he hasn’t shown a willingness to walk, which is a skill all these great hitters you hear him compared to do. This is something he can improve, obviously, but usually hitters are pretty close to what they’ve been in that department. His walk numbers are pretty much identical to Javy Baez’s in the minors (literally identical to Javy’s last full AAA stint at 6.7%), for example.

 

And there’s his body. He’s already a horse. Usually this doesn’t age well for athleticism. Jason Heyward is the rare exception. So it’s quite possible his entire value will come from hitting the ball out of the park and a high average. And he should do these things well, but you have to do them *really* well to be a 3+ WAR kind of player, especially if we’re talking doing it on an annual basis.

 

It’s just a difficult path.

 

Jose Quintana has been super blah this year (and has been dealing with shoulder fatigue), but odds are he’s closer to the 3.5+ fWAR pitcher he was the previous 5 years than the pitcher he’s been this year too.

 

If you want a for-sure crappy Cubs-White Sox trade, it’s Jon Garland for Matt Karchner. The Quintana trade was the right move in the Cubs’ position. It may end up looking bad in the end, but a lot would have to happen for it to end up looking brutal.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

God we're really in denial about attrition rates on starting pitchers, aren't we?

[cubsclapp]

God we're really in denial about attrition rates on starting pitchers, aren't we?

 

Quintana is coming off a season with a career-best K rate, had a career-best velocity after joining the Cubs last year, etc. Everything about his peripherals still looked great. His FIP is currently exactly 1 run above his career rate and much higher than any season. Pitchers break at any age, and frequently start declining at this age. That's especially more likely if a pitcher has thrown 200 innings in five straight years (as Quintana has if we include the playoffs last year). The fact that he's been dealing with shoulder fatigue this year would suggest the workload is catching up to him... or that he's just going through what pitchers go through. And the fact his walks are way up is also concerning, as command is crucial to his game.

 

But odds are that for these remaining 2.5 years, he's closer to the guy he's been over his career than the 4.12 ERA/4.61 FIP/10.7 BB% guy he's been so far this season. Could he keep being mediocre and/or get hurt? Absolutely. But that could still end up being more valuable than the prospects traded away end up being too, for all we know. I would've bet on Jorge Soler as a hitter over Eloy Jimenez and he's been worth under 2-WAR for his career.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Eloy is going to be a monster and we will all rue the day he was sent away

[JennieGarthAlgar]

We sign Harper and put him in RF and keep Schwarber in LF and I don't really worry too much about Eloy... Im more worried about Cease ending up a legit #1 through his rookie deal. That would suck, but its baseball. Hopefully we win a couple rings with Quintana contributing and then it ends up being a win-win for both teams.

 

But to say that this will be the worst trade in franchise history at this point is horsefeathering ridiculous.