Ryan Braun suspended for rest of 2013

[Wilson A2000]

Hank Aaron thinks PED abusers damaged the game. And so do the baseball writers. The veteran's committee will agree too. Most everyone but baseball forum posters think this.

 

 

Hank Aaron used [expletive] PEDs. Regularly.

 

Where is your evidence for this? Because he played in a time period (for the most part) where greenies were legal and they were given away in the clubhouse? Anyway, amphetamines weren't even made illegal until 1970 without a prescription.

[imb]

Hank Aaron thinks PED abusers damaged the game. And so do the baseball writers. The veteran's committee will agree too. Most everyone but baseball forum posters think this.

 

Look at his baseball reference profile. His stat progression matches the career arc of a steroid user exactly.

[Sammy Sofa]

A lot of the PEDs used over the last 50 years or so have been legal.

[SouthSideRyan]

Sosa got 200 homers due to PED's

 

Science.

 

If Sosa never took steroids how many homers do you think he would have ended up with?

 

927

[Cubswin11]

Sosa got 200 homers due to PED's

 

Science.

 

If Sosa never took steroids how many homers do you think he would have ended up with?

 

927

Simple physics, actually

[Wilson A2000]

Hank Aaron thinks PED abusers damaged the game. And so do the baseball writers. The veteran's committee will agree too. Most everyone but baseball forum posters think this.

 

Look at his baseball reference profile. His stat progression matches the career arc of a steroid user exactly.

 

There is no corroborating evidence that he did PED's other than the one time he said he did. So they were legal for most of his career and Aaron still says he didn't do them. If steroids were legal in the US and legal in baseball right now, I would have no problem. That is why I'm not up in arms about the old time baseball players who used them. Amphetamines weren't banned by the federal government until 1970 (illegal in baseball in 1971 I believe) and anabolic steroids weren't illegal until 1990 from what the net says.

 

Aaron's home run totals fluctuated throughout his career. "From nearly every sports-writing quarter and even Aaron himself, we have heard that the primary reason for Aaron's mark of 755 is because of his yearly home run consistency. However, statistically speaking, a stronger case can be made that Aaron was an INCONSISTENT home run hitter. From '56-'58, he went from 26 to 44 to 30 home runs; from '63 to '64 he dropped from 44 to 24; and from '68 to '69 he went from 29 to 44. A look at the world's most valuable sports website– Baseball-Reference.com will show that Aaron's yearly home run totals jumped or declined by at least 12 home runs on EIGHT separate occasions despite a remarkably consistent number of year-to-year at bat totals. In contrast, neither Bonds, Ruth, nor Mays exceeded five yearly 12-HR fluctuations." http://www.cosellout.com/2007/08/22/behind-the-myths-part-755-hank-aaron-bonds-with-barry/

Edited July 25, 2013 by Wilson A2000

[Sammy Sofa]

So if he was playing now he'd either be hitting 97 or -16.

[Sammy Sofa]

And man, the point you're trying to make is even worse the more I think about it...so what if his numbers fluctuated regularly? That still doesn't explain an old-ass player having a career-high power surge that late. One would expect the fluctuations to continue on a decreasing scale, not increasing or staying level.

[Wilson A2000]

And man, the point you're trying to make is even worse the more I think about it...so what if his numbers fluctuated regularly? That still doesn't explain an old-ass player having a career-high power surge that late. One would expect the fluctuations to continue on a decreasing scale, not increasing or staying level.

 

I said it was rare. There is no evidence that Hank did PED's other than trying them once, despite the fluctuations and his home runs staying on a level plane. Why do you think Aaron's numbers were so great toward the end of his career?

[imb]

And man, the point you're trying to make is even worse the more I think about it...so what if his numbers fluctuated regularly? That still doesn't explain an old-ass player having a career-high power surge that late. One would expect the fluctuations to continue on a decreasing scale, not increasing or staying level.

 

I said it was rare. There is no evidence that Hank did PED's other than trying them once, despite the fluctuations and his home runs staying on a level plane. Why do you think Aaron's numbers were so great toward the end of his career?

 

There's no evidence that Sosa did either, but here we are

[UMFan83]

Sosa got 200 homers due to PED's

 

Science.

 

If Sosa never took steroids how many homers do you think he would have ended up with?

 

927

 

little known fact: it was the corked bats that limited Sosa to 609 home runs

 

http://forum.goazcats.com/showthread.php?t=69089

[Wilson A2000]

And man, the point you're trying to make is even worse the more I think about it...so what if his numbers fluctuated regularly? That still doesn't explain an old-ass player having a career-high power surge that late. One would expect the fluctuations to continue on a decreasing scale, not increasing or staying level.

 

I said it was rare. There is no evidence that Hank did PED's other than trying them once, despite the fluctuations and his home runs staying on a level plane. Why do you think Aaron's numbers were so great toward the end of his career?

 

There's no evidence that Sosa did either, but here we are

 

? http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4264062

[Cubswin11]

And man, the point you're trying to make is even worse the more I think about it...so what if his numbers fluctuated regularly? That still doesn't explain an old-ass player having a career-high power surge that late. One would expect the fluctuations to continue on a decreasing scale, not increasing or staying level.

 

I said it was rare. There is no evidence that Hank did PED's other than trying them once, despite the fluctuations and his home runs staying on a level plane. Why do you think Aaron's numbers were so great toward the end of his career?

 

There's no evidence that Sosa did either, but here we are

 

? http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4264062

They weren't illegal in MLB then.

 

If steroids were legal in the US and legal in baseball right now, I would have no problem. That is why I'm not up in arms about the old time baseball players who used them.

 

In 2003, baseball did not have penalties for the first-time positive tests of performance-enhancing drugs.

[Sammy Sofa]

And man, the point you're trying to make is even worse the more I think about it...so what if his numbers fluctuated regularly? That still doesn't explain an old-ass player having a career-high power surge that late. One would expect the fluctuations to continue on a decreasing scale, not increasing or staying level.

 

I said it was rare. There is no evidence that Hank did PED's other than trying them once, despite the fluctuations and his home runs staying on a level plane. Why do you think Aaron's numbers were so great toward the end of his career?

 

Probably because he was using PEDs. Why him saying he didn't keep taking speed means to you he definitively didn't ever take it again or didn't use anything else makes no sense.

[Wilson A2000]

And man, the point you're trying to make is even worse the more I think about it...so what if his numbers fluctuated regularly? That still doesn't explain an old-ass player having a career-high power surge that late. One would expect the fluctuations to continue on a decreasing scale, not increasing or staying level.

 

I said it was rare. There is no evidence that Hank did PED's other than trying them once, despite the fluctuations and his home runs staying on a level plane. Why do you think Aaron's numbers were so great toward the end of his career?

 

There's no evidence that Sosa did either, but here we are

 

? http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4264062

They weren't illegal in MLB then.

 

If steroids were legal in the US and legal in baseball right now, I would have no problem. That is why I'm not up in arms about the old time baseball players who used them.

 

In 2003, baseball did not have penalties for the first-time positive tests of performance-enhancing drugs.

 

They were illegal in 1991, there were just no penalties until 2003 I thought

Edited July 25, 2013 by Wilson A2000

[Sammy Sofa]

And man, the point you're trying to make is even worse the more I think about it...so what if his numbers fluctuated regularly? That still doesn't explain an old-ass player having a career-high power surge that late. One would expect the fluctuations to continue on a decreasing scale, not increasing or staying level.

 

I said it was rare. There is no evidence that Hank did PED's other than trying them once, despite the fluctuations and his home runs staying on a level plane. Why do you think Aaron's numbers were so great toward the end of his career?

 

There's no evidence that Sosa did either, but here we are

 

? http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4264062

 

Yes, in 2003. He never tested positive or was busted before that. You're the one that keeps railing on about evidence, and then people bring up the tests and you turn around and say the evidence is "Wilson looked at his TV and decided that guy was too big."

[Sammy Sofa]

They were illegal in 1991, there were just no penalties until 2003 I thought

 

Wait, you think ALL "steroids" were made illegal in 1991?

[Wilson A2000]

Do you think Bonds was taking them in '98? He never tested positive for them until much later.

[Wilson A2000]

And man, the point you're trying to make is even worse the more I think about it...so what if his numbers fluctuated regularly? That still doesn't explain an old-ass player having a career-high power surge that late. One would expect the fluctuations to continue on a decreasing scale, not increasing or staying level.

 

I said it was rare. There is no evidence that Hank did PED's other than trying them once, despite the fluctuations and his home runs staying on a level plane. Why do you think Aaron's numbers were so great toward the end of his career?

 

There's no evidence that Sosa did either, but here we are

 

? http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4264062

 

Yes, in 2003. He never tested positive or was busted before that. You're the one that keeps railing on about evidence, and then people bring up the tests and you turn around and say the evidence is "Wilson looked at his TV and decided that guy was too big."

 

It wasn't just me. The Fainaru-Wada SI article states that Bonds's teamates knew something was up after 1998 when he put on 20 lbs of pure muscle even though he was working his butt off for years before that. People saw the same thing with Sosa.

[Sammy Sofa]

Do you think Bonds was taking them in '98? He never tested positive for them until much later.

 

During the 1998 season? No. Starting with the 1999 season and onward? Yes. Definitively he wasn't busted until a 2000 test.

[Sammy Sofa]

It wasn't just me. The Fainaru-Wada SI article states that Bonds's teamates knew something was up after 1998 when he put on 20 lbs of pure muscle even though he was working his butt off for years before that. People saw the same thing with Sosa.

 

The point is that "looking for huge guys" isn't an accurate way of guessing who was and is using PEDs. Not everyone hulks out.

 

When do you think Sosa started using?

[Wilson A2000]

They were illegal in 1991, there were just no penalties until 2003 I thought

 

Wait, you think ALL "steroids" were made illegal in 1991?

 

Made illegal in baseball those that were already illegal by federal law. "The possession, sale or use of any illegal drug or controlled substance by Major League players or personnel is strictly prohibited.... This prohibition applies to all illegal drugs ... including steroids or prescription drugs for which the individual in possession of the drug does not have a prescription."

[Sammy Sofa]

Right, and not all of the drugs you're decrying were illegal at that point, and tons of the players using the "banned" ones were getting prescriptions.

[Wilson A2000]

It wasn't just me. The Fainaru-Wada SI article states that Bonds's teamates knew something was up after 1998 when he put on 20 lbs of pure muscle even though he was working his butt off for years before that. People saw the same thing with Sosa.

 

The point is that "looking for huge guys" isn't an accurate way of guessing who was and is using PEDs. Not everyone hulks out.

 

When do you think Sosa started using?

 

 

Sure, not everyone does. But Bonds did. That is really not debatable. Sosa most likely started at least between 1997-1998.

[Wilson A2000]

Right, and not all of the drugs you're decrying were illegal at that point, and tons of the players using the "banned" ones were getting prescriptions.

 

I don't think Bonds, Sosa, or ARod used a legal PED alone. There was always something illegal they were taking in addition to any legal ones. I don't have a problem if you have a prescription. I don't think they did.