Garza to Texas for CJ Edwards, Olt, Grimm & Neil Ramirez

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

Too many guys with more knowledge don't believe Edwards' body and or secondary pitches will hold up at higher levels. I'd still have Johnson and maybe even Paniagua higher.

 

Don't know where the hell to put Vizcaino at this point.

[toonsterwu]

Vizcaino is the wildcard. You can go high on him, on the promise of "stuff", but you can also dump him to the mid-teens on account of the last two years and I'd be fine with that. Thus, I think somewhere 10 seems reasonable.

 

I'll take Edwards over Paniagua for now. JCP's pitching, but I want to see ... more. Edwards has dominated and has some ceiling, so he gets a tiny edge, even if JCP's ceiling is, on paper, higher. But that's me.

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

I'll take Edwards over Paniagua for now. JCP's pitching, but I want to see ... more. Edwards has dominated and has some ceiling, so he gets a tiny edge, even if JCP's ceiling is, on paper, higher. But that's me.

 

Yeah, I see no problem taking Edwards right now. Paniagua has been meh in KC so far but I'm giving him a pass because all of the BS he's been through this summer trying to get to the U.S.

[Guest]

I don't see how Paniagua could remotely be considered above Edwards, he's 23 years old and despite all the caveats, just started pitching in full season ball this week.

 

I really think that people don't quite realize how obscenely good Edwards has been. Filtering for pitchers with at least 80 IP:

 

Edwards leads the entire minor leagues in FIP

Edwards leads the entire minor leagues in HR/9

Edwards is 3rd in the entire minor leagues in ERA

Edwards is 3rd in the entire minor leagues in K/9 and K%

Edwards is 3rd in the entire minor leagues in BAA

 

I'll accept the concerns about his frame(although if they can believe in Juan Cruz they can believe in Edwards), but all the reports I've seen about his mechanics, makeup, velocity, and secondary pitches don't show any reason why he can't be a very good starter. Especially when combined with the fact that he's incinerating an age appropriate league for the second straight year.

[Guest]

http://vimeo.com/45291830

[Guest]

I'll take Edwards over Paniagua for now. JCP's pitching, but I want to see ... more. Edwards has dominated and has some ceiling, so he gets a tiny edge, even if JCP's ceiling is, on paper, higher. But that's me.

 

i must really not understand ceilings and how paniagua's can be higher. i'm not being facetious at all, believe me, please tell me what makes paniagua's ceiling higher. it seems like all this talk of nuanced ceilings is another way of hoarding fictional esoteric knowledge.

 

i like you and respect your opinion above many others, toonster, don't get me wrong, but i just don't get it.

[Guest]

http://imageshack.us/a/img577/4936/xpcn.jpg

[Guest]

I'll take Edwards over Paniagua for now. JCP's pitching, but I want to see ... more. Edwards has dominated and has some ceiling, so he gets a tiny edge, even if JCP's ceiling is, on paper, higher. But that's me.

 

i must really not understand ceilings and how paniagua's can be higher. i'm not being facetious at all, believe me, please tell me what makes paniagua's ceiling higher. it seems like all this talk of nuanced ceilings is another way of hoarding fictional esoteric knowledge.

 

i like you and respect your opinion above many others, toonster, don't get me wrong, but i just don't get it.

 

Paniagua throws much harder (96-100) with a plus slider.

[jersey cubs fan]

The Cubs aren't paying any of Garza's contract, are they?

[XZero771679666304]

The Cubs aren't paying any of Garza's contract, are they?

 

No.

[jersey cubs fan]

The Cubs aren't paying any of Garza's contract, are they?

 

No.

 

So what is left on it easily covers the expected penalty payments for international signees?

[Tedward]

The Cubs aren't paying any of Garza's contract, are they?

 

No.

 

So what is left on it easily covers the expected penalty payments for international signees?

 

That's one way of looking at it, sure. If the Soriano deal to the Yanks goes down, that should free up even more 2013 cash, since the speculation is Yanks would take more of this years $ owed, & Cubs would pick up most if not all of Soriano's 2014 contract to help Yanks avoid luxury tax penalties next season

[davell]

The Cubs aren't paying any of Garza's contract, are they?

 

No.

 

So what is left on it easily covers the expected penalty payments for international signees?

That, or possibly allow for signing Gonzalez without the budget changing.

[Warpticon]

http://vimeo.com/45291830

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Elrhino]

On Jonah Keri's Grantland podcast released last night, he said the Cubs had liked Grimm for a while and had singled him out. I guess because of the low walk rates and his feel for pitching? Maybe because they think he could add a cutter like Wood? Edited July 23, 2013 by Elrhino

[Guest]

On Jonah Keri's Grantland podcast released last night, he said the Cubs had liked Grimm for a while and had singled him out. I guess because of the low walk rates and his feel for pitching? Maybe because they think he could add a cutter like Wood?

 

BP's write-up of the deal said that Grimm had dabbled with a 2-seamer that showed some promise, but since he got forced into the MLB rotation because of injuries he hasn't been able to really work on developing his repertoire like he needs to.

 

Even with his strong arsenal, Grimm's presently below-average fastball command and lifeless four-seamer will likely leave him hittable to some extent. The University of Georgia product has toyed with a promising two-seam fastball and short mid-80s slider––both of which have flashed in bursts and should help him miss barrels. He's been unable to nurture those two offerings in the results-driven major-league environment, but they will be key in how he develops. Grimm is a very strong bet to reach his no. 4 profile; he just isn’t there quite yet.

[Guest]

Between the draftees (both 2012 and 13), Arrieta, Pineyro, Grimm, and CJ, Derek Johnson has a lot to work with.

 

Among those 12 or 13 guys, I wonder what the odds are of at least one really good pitcher emerging.

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

How the [expletive] does Derek Johnson have to time to work with all these guys?

[UMFan83]

Between the draftees (both 2012 and 13), Arrieta, Pineyro, Grimm, and CJ, Derek Johnson has a lot to work with.

 

Among those 12 or 13 guys, I wonder what the odds are of at least one really good pitcher emerging.

 

I hope there is at least 1 front line starter in the group. Obviously the system is still hitter heavy in terms of elite talent, but its good to see the pitching side start to close the gap.

[Guest]

How the [expletive] does Derek Johnson have to time to work with all these guys?

Hopefully he's spending a good deal of time fixing Maples.

[Pushfrog98]

Is it bad that I somehow want Odor to end up with the Angels?

 

(spoilered for immaturity)

 

Pujols, Odor devastate Colon, A's.

 

[Guest]

apparently this is cj edwards

 

http://ask.fm/CEdwards1220

[pitchcs]

http://vimeo.com/45291830

 

Me like.

[Guest]

Kiley McDaniel[/url]"]Grimm is the only current big leaguer in the deal but also has the lowest upside of the group. He doens't blow you away but a 24-year-old big league starter with good stuff and an expected ERA (when draining out luck) in the low 4's. Grimm works primarily with a 90-93 heater that has been up to 96 mph in the past and a hard high-70's curveball. This year he's made progress from being more of a raw power arm to a refined starter, mixing in a low 80's changeup and showing all the peripherals of a league average pitcher, despite a 6.37 ERA.

 

Olt was another college draftee of the Rangers that received a high bonus, though his star has faded just a bit in the last year. As a college shortstop that moved to third base, Olt has good hands, a plus arm and above average defensive potential to pair with his easy plus power to help him profile as an above average regular. The issue has become Olt's ability to hit. There were some concerns about his eyes in college as it turned out Olt needed contacts but wasn't wearing them, helping him take a step forward in the low minors. He's always been a high walk-high strikeout guy but struggled to make contact in a short big league stint and his strikeout rate went over 30% in AAA this year. He was hit in the head with a pitch earlier this month and has had some vision problems. It isn't expected to be a long-term problem but Olt is now seen as more of a .250 or .260 hitter with lots of walks and strikeouts that you hope makes enough contact to get to his raw power in games and plays a solid third base.

 

Edwards was a complete unknown very recently, as he signed for $50,000 out of a South Carolina high school as a 48th round pick in 2011. He got his first taste of full-season ball this year at age 21 in the Lo-A Sally League and has blown away expectations. At the Futures Game last week, a couple scouts spontaneously brought Edwards up in conversation, wondering how their club didn't see anything like this coming so quickly and how high he should be on the Rangers prospect lists. As a skinny, super athletic 6'2, righty, Edwards has been sitting 91-96 mph with a potentially above average curveball and changeup. He's obviously taken a step forward since high school as a late-bloomer growing into his frame, athleticism and delivery. He's the wild card of this trade with his huge upside, lack of track record and the other players involved being big leaguers or already established in the upper minors.

 

This trade had been rumored for weeks, nearly completed last week before reports of bad medicals on one of the Rangers' prospects tanking that incarnation of the deal. There was speculation Olt was the problem, due to his recent history of vision problems but sources indicated to me that it was Neil Ramirez, though that wasn't strong enough to report at the time. WIth how the deal ended up going down (all the formerly-rumored players, minus Ramirez), that intel appears to be correct. It hasn't been confirmed but reports indicate the player to be named later is either Ramirez or two players from a group both clubs agreed to before the trade was completed. It would appear the Cubs had some concerns about Ramirez's health that may be allayed if he can stay healthy for the rest of the season. Ramirez's stuff and results tend to alternate good/bad each season with 2013 on the upside. He has power stuff that could be a mid-rotation starter but command and consistency are his bugaboos.

 

This was a surprisingly good return for Chicago trading part of one season of a solid starter and makes up for the previous regime giving up too much to Tampa Bay (RHP Chris Archer and SS Hak Ju Lee were headliners of a five-player package) for Garza with the team trending down. Lee has backed up since the trade while Archer has emerged as a solid rotation piece for the Rays. Edwards in the wild card in this deal and could end up being the best piece, but three big league ready pieces in Grimm, Olt and likely Ramirez was a nice recovery by the new Cubs regime that continues to make impressive moves to rebuild the organization and restock the farm system.

[Elwood]

http://imageshack.us/a/img577/4936/xpcn.jpg

 

Ignorance abounds.

 

http://i40.tinypic.com/2cho003.jpg