Wood re-signs, 1 year, 3 million w/ team option

[sneakypower]

Horrendous pitchers who are throwing batting practice can't be judged by their peripherals. FIP(or whatever else you want to use) work because guys like Davis aren't usually pitching on major league rosters. When you're using these #s to determine how valuable one of these pitching machines is it's flawed.

Davis has been on MLB rosters for 12 seasons

 

was he a better pitcher in '07 or '09 than he was this past season? what made him effective in those seasons and a pitching machine this year?

 

I don't know, old age? Injuries? Davis was horrendous over 17 starts in the past 2 years? Why should I care what he did 5 seasons ago?

the point is he wasn't a better pitcher, he just had better defense, basically; which is why we care about fielding independent pitching stats and focusing more on peripherals

[jersey cubs fan]

Horrendous pitchers who are throwing batting practice can't be judged by their peripherals. FIP(or whatever else you want to use) work because guys like Davis aren't usually pitching on major league rosters. When you're using these #s to determine how valuable one of these pitching machines is it's flawed.

Davis has been on MLB rosters for 12 seasons

 

was he a better pitcher in '07 or '09 than he was this past season? what made him effective in those seasons and a pitching machine this year?

 

I don't know, old age? Injuries? Davis was horrendous over 17 starts in the past 2 years? Why should I care what he did 5 seasons ago?

the point is he wasn't a better pitcher, he just had better defense, basically; which is why we care about fielding independent pitching stats and focusing more on peripherals

 

You don't think there's a chance he may have actually been a better pitcher 5 years ago?

[Rob]

For the record, I don't believe that using FIP is an inherent flaw with fWAR. They made a choice to use a statistic that is more predicative. That gives fWAR significantly more value than bWAR in debating how to assemble a roster, trying to break down whether a contract is good, etc...

 

If you're looking for a more accurate representation of what actually happened, there's always bWAR.

 

As to Davis himself, his 2011 FIP is obviously not representative (hardly shocking considering it was just 9 starts). His HR/FB which had floated around 11% for his career was at 3.6%. It seems pretty obvious that Davis got lucky on a few hard hit flyballs that hit off the wall instead of going over. FIP saw his H/9 was too high and erased some of those doubles assuming it was the fault of the defense instead of Davis himself.

 

These things happen in 45 IP sample sizes. Can we move on from this boring argument?

[sneakypower]

in '11 Davis had (by far) the lowest HR rate of his career and a LD rate right in line with his career average; that doesn't really scream "batting practice" to me

 

it stands to reason a LH pitcher wasn't served many favors by having Ramirez, Castro, Soriano hanging out on the left side of the field pretending to play defense. Marshall had a career-worst BABIP too, though Russell wasn't quite so ill-effected (presumably because his hits all went over the fences)

[UMFan83]

Not understanding Kerry's mindset here. I have no problem with him not wanting to give the Cubs a discount on its own, but its weird to be demanding whatever he's demanding a year after taking substantially less than he's worth to come here and go on and on about how he wants to be a Cub for life and if the Cubs don't want him he's going to retire etc. Then this year comes along and he's playing hardball.

 

Could it be that the hometown discount was only for the previous regime? Or maybe, Hendry and Wood had an understanding when he signed last year that Hendry couldn't afford to give Kerry more than $1.5 mil, but assuming things went as planned the Cubs would have more money available this offseason and Kerry would get his fair rate.

 

Just seems weird that this might not happen, as all the right things were said by both sides up until recently.

[Rob]

in '11 Davis had (by far) the lowest HR rate of his career and a LD rate right in line with his career average; that doesn't really scream "batting practice" to me

 

it stands to reason a LH pitcher wasn't served many favors by having Ramirez, Castro, Soriano hanging out on the left side of the field pretending to play defense. Marshall had a career-worst BABIP too, though Russell wasn't quite so ill-effected (presumably because his hits all went over the fences)

 

HR/FB is prone to significant swings, especially in small sample sizes. It's why xFIP is more predicative than FIP.

 

Davis was lucky and that luck got double-counted towards his FIP. Please just let it go.

[Clem Fandango]

These things happen in 45 IP sample sizes. Can we move on from this boring argument?

 

Especially since I was just trying to say that replacing Kerry Wood's production with someone else is probably easier than most people think and cheaper than bringing him back at what he wants. Clearly Davis' fWAR is an outlier (sample sizes and all that). Davis is an baseball abomination.

[Rob]

These things happen in 45 IP sample sizes. Can we move on from this boring argument?

 

Especially since I was just trying to say that replacing Kerry Wood's production with someone else is probably easier than most people think and cheaper than bringing him back at what he wants. Clearly Davis' fWAR is an outlier (sample sizes and all that). Davis is an baseball abomination.

 

Truth. It's not hard to replace the production of a non-elite reliever.

 

That said, I love Kerry Wood. I would gladly pay too much money to bring him back.

[Clem Fandango]

That said, I love Kerry Wood. I would gladly pay too much money to bring him back.

 

Yeah. Like dextermorgan said, we're not using the money on anything else and we have it available, might as well spend a little bit of it on the last bastion of Cubs nostalgia we have to keep the fans happy.

[jersey cubs fan]

Not understanding Kerry's mindset here. I have no problem with him not wanting to give the Cubs a discount on its own, but its weird to be demanding whatever he's demanding a year after taking substantially less than he's worth to come here and go on and on about how he wants to be a Cub for life and if the Cubs don't want him he's going to retire etc. Then this year comes along and he's playing hardball.

 

Could it be that the hometown discount was only for the previous regime? Or maybe, Hendry and Wood had an understanding when he signed last year that Hendry couldn't afford to give Kerry more than $1.5 mil, but assuming things went as planned the Cubs would have more money available this offseason and Kerry would get his fair rate.

 

Just seems weird that this might not happen, as all the right things were said by both sides up until recently.

 

It was weird to talk about Cubs or nobody else in the first place, but not weird to actually hold out for the most money possible now. He owes it to his agent (does he have one still?) to at least try to create some leverage.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Not understanding Kerry's mindset here. I have no problem with him not wanting to give the Cubs a discount on its own, but its weird to be demanding whatever he's demanding a year after taking substantially less than he's worth to come here and go on and on about how he wants to be a Cub for life and if the Cubs don't want him he's going to retire etc. Then this year comes along and he's playing hardball.

 

Could it be that the hometown discount was only for the previous regime? Or maybe, Hendry and Wood had an understanding when he signed last year that Hendry couldn't afford to give Kerry more than $1.5 mil, but assuming things went as planned the Cubs would have more money available this offseason and Kerry would get his fair rate.

 

Just seems weird that this might not happen, as all the right things were said by both sides up until recently.

 

It was weird to talk about Cubs or nobody else in the first place, but not weird to actually hold out for the most money possible now. He owes it to his agent (does he have one still?) to at least try to create some leverage.

 

Neither scenerio would necessarily have been weird. I don't think that anyone would have held it against him if from the beginning he'd said that he wants to go somewhere for more money or even a better chance to win. It does now look a bit weird for him starting out saying that he wants to stay with the Cubs or retire and then decide that he wants closer to market value, defeating the purpose of the hometown discount which is the only reason for te Cubs in their current state to bring him back.

There are two alternate scenerios I can't think of: A. Wood said he wants to retire a Cub and it was the media who twisted that to mean he'd only sign with the Cubs or nobody or B. he or his agent felt that the organization was going to use him for marketing and PR purposes to keep fans coming and paying outrageous ticket prices for a team with no real star power and he said to hell with that, if I'm going to be a glorified mascot they'd better pay me more.

[CUBZ99]

Not understanding Kerry's mindset here. I have no problem with him not wanting to give the Cubs a discount on its own, but its weird to be demanding whatever he's demanding a year after taking substantially less than he's worth to come here and go on and on about how he wants to be a Cub for life and if the Cubs don't want him he's going to retire etc. Then this year comes along and he's playing hardball.

 

Could it be that the hometown discount was only for the previous regime? Or maybe, Hendry and Wood had an understanding when he signed last year that Hendry couldn't afford to give Kerry more than $1.5 mil, but assuming things went as planned the Cubs would have more money available this offseason and Kerry would get his fair rate.

 

Just seems weird that this might not happen, as all the right things were said by both sides up until recently.

 

It was weird to talk about Cubs or nobody else in the first place, but not weird to actually hold out for the most money possible now. He owes it to his agent (does he have one still?) to at least try to create some leverage.

 

He is definitely doing a good job at trying to create leverage, by getting the fans worried that he won't re-sign just prior to the convention. Can't blame the guy for looking out for himself and his family.

[biittner77]

That said, I love Kerry Wood. I would gladly pay too much money to bring him back.

 

Yeah. Like dextermorgan said, we're not using the money on anything else and we have it available, might as well spend a little bit of it on the last bastion of Cubs nostalgia we have to keep the fans happy.

 

I could buy that if Wood was a position player, the closer or even a starting pitcher. Are people really going to go to a game on the chance of seeing Kerry Wood making a relief appearance?

[Little Slide Rooter]

Not understanding Kerry's mindset here. I have no problem with him not wanting to give the Cubs a discount on its own, but its weird to be demanding whatever he's demanding a year after taking substantially less than he's worth to come here and go on and on about how he wants to be a Cub for life and if the Cubs don't want him he's going to retire etc. Then this year comes along and he's playing hardball.

 

Could it be that the hometown discount was only for the previous regime? Or maybe, Hendry and Wood had an understanding when he signed last year that Hendry couldn't afford to give Kerry more than $1.5 mil, but assuming things went as planned the Cubs would have more money available this offseason and Kerry would get his fair rate.

 

Just seems weird that this might not happen, as all the right things were said by both sides up until recently.

 

It was weird to talk about Cubs or nobody else in the first place, but not weird to actually hold out for the most money possible now. He owes it to his agent (does he have one still?) to at least try to create some leverage.

 

He is definitely doing a good job at trying to create leverage, by getting the fans worried that he won't re-sign just prior to the convention. Can't blame the guy for looking out for himself and his family.

 

It would sure be sad to see the Wood family on food stamps and digging through the dumpster behind Browns.

[abuck1220]

ugh you are not very good at this.

[CincyCubsFan]

Is there a WSR drinking game yet?

[ctcf]

I think it's "drink until he stops making you sad".

[Little Slide Rooter]

Was that not the best way to say that I doubt that it's about looking out for his family? It could be better argued that when dealing with that much money it might be in the better interest of his family do stay put and sign with the Cubs or even another mid-western team for 2-2.5 mil rather than 3-3.5 some 700 hundred miles away?

[CubsWin]

That said, I love Kerry Wood. I would gladly pay too much money to bring him back.

 

Yeah. Like dextermorgan said, we're not using the money on anything else and we have it available, might as well spend a little bit of it on the last bastion of Cubs nostalgia we have to keep the fans happy.

True, but the Cubs might still be spending their money on stuff. The restriction on IFA money doesn't begin until July 2nd. And there are some really good IFAs out there (Cespedes, Soler, Concepcion). Plus, if they are able to trade Soriano (and have already traded Z) and eat most of his remaining salary, they can chalk up the money they're eating to the money their saving on this year's payroll allowing the team to effectively move forward with a blank slate financially after this season.

[Backtobanks]

Not understanding Kerry's mindset here. I have no problem with him not wanting to give the Cubs a discount on its own, but its weird to be demanding whatever he's demanding a year after taking substantially less than he's worth to come here and go on and on about how he wants to be a Cub for life and if the Cubs don't want him he's going to retire etc. Then this year comes along and he's playing hardball.

 

Could it be that the hometown discount was only for the previous regime? Or maybe, Hendry and Wood had an understanding when he signed last year that Hendry couldn't afford to give Kerry more than $1.5 mil, but assuming things went as planned the Cubs would have more money available this offseason and Kerry would get his fair rate.

 

Just seems weird that this might not happen, as all the right things were said by both sides up until recently.

 

I do think that a big part of the hometown discount was because of the old regime. I'm sure there was a very comfortable feeling with all of the talk about becoming the "new Ron Santo" and stepping into the broadcasting booth after finishing his career. As part of the "old Cubs", he's probably not sure of how he fits in going forward.

[Elrhino]

I thought Kerry signed the below market 1 year contract under the wink and a nod understanding that he would have a job in the organization after he retires. If Theo isn't keen on having around a lot of ex-jock "consultants" hanging around the front office, and Greg Maddux has since resigned his consultant position, the 1 year bargain basement might not be that appealing any more.

[treebird]

I think it's "drink until he stops making you sad".

 

drink endlessly is not a drinking game, dingus

[Guest]

I think it's "drink until he stops making you sad".

 

drink endlessly is not a drinking game, dingus

 

it's called being mark grace

[SouthSideRyan]

I think it's "drink until he stops making you sad".

 

drink endlessly is not a drinking game, dingus

 

it's called being mark grace

 

I hope he never wins.

[Guest]

I think it's "drink until he stops making you sad".

 

drink endlessly is not a drinking game, dingus

 

it's called being mark grace

 

I hope he never wins.

 

i was setting you up for that one