Zambrano traded to Marlins for Chris Volstad (P. 8)

[Guancous]

Zambrano suspensions were an annual event. The owner and former general manager openly said he would be traded for pennies on the dollar. Volstad is a very good return under those circumstances.

[Guest]

He said he hasn't shown the same durability he has in the past, which is accurate. Even if he played the entire year, there was no guarantee he would have reached 200 innings. (and he hasn't in 4 years).

 

None of that changes the fact that he used a 60 inning disparity over the past two years to make a point about durability despite the fact that Zambrano's innings were mainly limited by things the past two years that had absolutely nothing to do with durability.

 

It was misleading to even mention it, at best.

[Exile on Waveland]

Man Kaplan is terrible. I do wonder, however, if some of the posts in this thread are a reaction in the opposite direction just because Kaplan is so deplorable the poster wanted him to be wrong about everything.

[Sammys Boombox]

 

No, it was still really stupid. What's really weird is that you pretty much acknowledged that it was stupid and made it anyway. And then defended it.

 

I don't know if stupid is as accurate a description as completely irrelevant to the discussion.

 

This is the Zambrano thread. The discussion is on Zambrano's career as a Cub ending. The comment was not meant to be anything but an interesting fact about the Cubs not benefitting a single postseason victory from him being on their roster. Although you could make the claim that they wouldn't have won any postseason games in 03 without Zambrano on the roster. It is not condemning Zambrano or even his individual starts (besides Game 1 of the NLCS). It is simply something that I found interesting that I thought others would as well. Nothing more. Nothing less. Stop reading into things,

 

Also Carlos Zambrano has hit 3 triples in his career. HOW INTERESTING

 

What is your problem?

[TruffleShuffle]

Man Kaplan is terrible. I do wonder, however, if some of the posts in this thread are a reaction in the opposite direction just because Kaplan is so deplorable the poster wanted him to be wrong about everything.

 

i dunno, i'm sure some people expect zambrano could pitch better and increase his trade value during the first 3-4 months, other people were probably just big fans of him, and then many expected a better return if the cubs were eating that much salary (see: logan morrison talk).

 

but it definitely sucks to see kaplan gloating after a victory in his "get rid of the brown guys" crusade.

[Game time is 120]

There goes our best hitter. I have to hand it to Theo, though. He is staying right on the track he said he would.

[XZero771679666304]

Man Kaplan is terrible. I do wonder, however, if some of the posts in this thread are a reaction in the opposite direction just because Kaplan is so deplorable the poster wanted him to be wrong about everything.

 

i dunno, i'm sure some people expect zambrano could pitch better and increase his trade value during the first 3-4 months, other people were probably just big fans of him, and then many expected a better return if the cubs were eating that much salary (see: logan morrison talk).

 

but it definitely sucks to see kaplan gloating after a victory in his "get rid of the brown guys" crusade.

 

I just think most of us valued Big Z more than the market did because we watch him enough to know that he's more than the meltdown machine he has been portrayed as. But the reality was that this was about as good as it was going to get, and if you're not competing in 2012, you have to move him.

 

I'm a huge fan of Z, but I reconciled with this eventuality a while ago.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Man Kaplan is terrible. I do wonder, however, if some of the posts in this thread are a reaction in the opposite direction just because Kaplan is so deplorable the poster wanted him to be wrong about everything.

 

i dunno, i'm sure some people expect zambrano could pitch better and increase his trade value during the first 3-4 months, other people were probably just big fans of him, and then many expected a better return if the cubs were eating that much salary (see: logan morrison talk).

 

but it definitely sucks to see kaplan gloating after a victory in his "get rid of the brown guys" crusade.

 

I'll admit the over reaction but it's not unrealistic to have taken the gamble on Z. Keep in mind, with the sure to not be excersised team option for 2013, this is a contract year for Z so he has all the incentive in the world to pitch well and keep his head on straight in a season that could be the difference between a 2-3 year contract and being lucky to get a minor league deal. It's worth the gamble because worst case scenario, Z's bad and crazy and let go in the Summer and all we leave on the table is Chris Volstad and minimal salary relief.

[TruffleShuffle]

should i link to the multitude of sources debunking the contract year myth? nah i think everyone knows how to use google.

[Exile on Waveland]

Man Kaplan is terrible. I do wonder, however, if some of the posts in this thread are a reaction in the opposite direction just because Kaplan is so deplorable the poster wanted him to be wrong about everything.

 

i dunno, i'm sure some people expect zambrano could pitch better and increase his trade value during the first 3-4 months, other people were probably just big fans of him, and then many expected a better return if the cubs were eating that much salary (see: logan morrison talk).

 

but it definitely sucks to see kaplan gloating after a victory in his "get rid of the brown guys" crusade.

 

Most definitely it sucks to see Kaplan gloat. The guy is terrible. Sometimes I forget, then I read an article like that. That's why I think there might be a tendency to see things through the anti-Kaplan lens when viewing Zambrano -- or, just in general, the anti-meatball lens when viewing anything.

 

(Not to argue with anything in your first paragraph, I believe everything you mentioned was also at work; I just think there might be more at work as well.)

[ScrubMD]

Everybody in the organization wanted Zambrano gone because he's a legitimate crazy person and also he's not good at baseball and getting worse.

 

Why are so many people upset over the fact that we might have been able to get a slightly better player if we put up with Zambrano's craziness for another half season and if Zambrano didn't continue to suck for that half season and if Zambrano didn't rage somebody to death in that half season.

 

We were never going to get anything good for him, he wasn't going to help us, and they wanted him gone. Who cares?

[UMFan83]

The negativity is insane. They were spending 18 mill either way... What does it hurt to have Z pitch on the team... But what does it gain?? This is a lost season, nothing is gained by letting Carlos try to earn redemption... Theo/Jed just picked up a piece. Maybe he turns into something maybe not.

 

 

No one should care about the sunk money, that money is not going to come back to bite the Cubs ever.

 

Thank you. It was a sunk cost and the Cubs already decided that Z wasn't coming back. I forget where I read it but I remember seeing something that suggested that the players pretty much did not want Z to come back. They were mad he "quit" on them and angry that he continues to pull this [expletive] year after year. Not a great environment to start the Theo Epstein era. Now you can say 'tough [expletive] they are professionals they will work it out', but whats the point in a lost season? Z is not a bad pitcher but he is what he is at this point. He's a FA after this year, so making the move now makes sense.

 

I know the counter is, what if Z pitches lights out to start the year, as he is a relatively streaky pitcher at this point. Fine that's a risk but you also risk being completely unable to trade him with poor play and/or another blow up. Bottom line, Z's career with the Cubs was over that night in Florida (or wherever it was) and to get at least 1 young pitcher with upside is a positive IMO.

[UMFan83]

PS this thread has brought out the worst in NSBB. Lots of name calling, mocking other posters with differing opinions, etc. Come on guys...

[CUBZ99]

Wasn't Volstad a potential non-tender candidate? I don't think the move is terrible, but watching the Cubs in 2012 is going to be depressing, unless Theo actually does something to improve the team. Based on last year's numbers this appears to be a lateral move. I guess I would have been more willing to bet that Z could bounce back, but that may be more based on the fact that he was one of my favorite players on the Cubs.

[Little Slide Rooter]

PS this thread has brought out the worst in NSBB. Lots of name calling, mocking other posters with differing opinions, etc. Come on guys...

 

So it's just like every other thread but with more activity.

[TruffleShuffle]

PS this thread has brought out the worst in NSBB. Lots of name calling, mocking other posters with differing opinions, etc. Come on guys...

 

i dunno, i've found it pretty entertaining. often when there's a trade most people fall on the same side. this is one time where several posters with whom i usually agree are on the other side.

[Soul]

Wasn't Volstad a potential non-tender candidate? I don't think the move is terrible, but watching the Cubs in 2012 is going to be depressing, unless Theo actually does something to improve the team. Based on last year's numbers this appears to be a lateral move. I guess I would have been more willing to bet that Z could bounce back, but that may be more based on the fact that he was one of my favorite players on the Cubs.

 

I think this is the wrong mindset. This is how it looks when a team has a bunch of bloated, underperforming contracts and needs to unload and rebuild from the ground up.

 

Yes, 2012 is going to suck. But it shouldn't be viewed as a single, crappy year. It should be viewed as the beginning of something that will grow into success.

[Little Slide Rooter]

should i link to the multitude of sources debunking the contract year myth? nah i think everyone knows how to use google.

 

I'm not expecting Carlos Zambrano to turn into Ray Halladay but rather be a serviceable pitcher and not act like a moron. When a big part of a guys problem is mental, then it's a lot more likely that they can control it when their future is on the line as opposed to expecting a mid rotation starter to turn Into an ace for a contract year. Then again, I'm pretty sure you knew damn well that's what I meant but you just wanted to get your comment in and that's OK.

 

Personally, I think that all we needed was Luke Scott and a bag of plantain chips and Big Z would be fixed in no time.

[JeffH]

Ray Halladay

 

Roy's older, less successful brother.

[SouthSideRyan]

Wasn't Volstad a potential non-tender candidate? I don't think the move is terrible, but watching the Cubs in 2012 is going to be depressing, unless Theo actually does something to improve the team. Based on last year's numbers this appears to be a lateral move. I guess I would have been more willing to bet that Z could bounce back, but that may be more based on the fact that he was one of my favorite players on the Cubs.

 

I think this is the wrong mindset. This is how it looks when a team has a bunch of bloated, underperforming contracts and needs to unload and rebuild from the ground up.

 

Yes, 2012 is going to suck. But it shouldn't be viewed as a single, crappy year. It should be viewed as the beginning of something that will grow into success.

 

How is 2012 going to be the beginning of something that will grow into success other than the fact that it will be the worst record for a while?

[Guest]

Z has had declining peripherals and velocity for years now. He hasn't pitched 200 IP since 2007 (for a variety of reasons, but injury is definitely one of them). He has stubbornly refused to modify his mix of pitches to ones that are more effective.

 

He certainly could bounce back in 2012. Best case scenario, though, is that he pitches better and is traded at the deadline. But even then he'd only have similar value to what he has now due to the decreased time of control and the new CBA.

 

Volstad isn't great, but there are reasons to hope that a change of scenery and a new pitching coach may help him. IMO, there's a significantly better chance of Volstad having a jump in performance than Z for 2012. If he does, he'd certainly have more value at the deadline for trades than Carlos.

 

All in all, this is about what we could have expected for Z. I'm sad to see him go as I've been a fan for a long time, but I'm not upset with the trade.

[TruffleShuffle]

How is 2012 going to be the beginning of something that will grow into success other than the fact that it will be the worst record for a while?

 

an actual vision for the future and not taking on more bad contracts.

 

let's be realistic, the cubs' core was lousy and the only way the cubs were going to be any good in 2012 was to make at least a couple of expensive free agent signings or trade the few good prospects we have for good major league players on other teams.

[EhDubya]

I'm reserving judgement on this trade until mojo weighs in.

[minnesotacubsfan]

It sucks

[Cubs Evangelist]

In general terms, not only on the Z trade, this offseason is painful, I have absolutely zero hope we will be competitive in the next three years and cannot for the life of me figure out why we are acting like we have no money to spend.