Zambrano traded to Marlins for Chris Volstad (P. 8)

[WilcoFan]

It's like the Ricketts and Theo are trying to pretend the Cubs are an expansion team. Either there is something we don't know about Ricketts ability to service the debt or the egos involved here are beyond huge.

 

Aramis and Z were my two favorite Cubs, guess its time to find new favorites.

 

Or they're building the team for long-term purposes exactly like they said they were going to do.

What? Z's gone after this year and if the news is true they are getting no salary relief. Volstad is not a building block, he's a non-tender candidate.

 

I think Theo was given his orders.

 

It's great that you think that. You're probably wrong.

[XZero771679666304]

It's like the Ricketts and Theo are trying to pretend the Cubs are an expansion team. Either there is something we don't know about Ricketts ability to service the debt or the egos involved here are beyond huge.

 

Aramis and Z were my two favorite Cubs, guess its time to find new favorites.

 

Or they're building the team for long-term purposes exactly like they said they were going to do.

What? Z's gone after this year and if the news is true they are getting no salary relief. Volstad is not a building block, he's a non-tender candidate.

 

I think Theo was given his orders.

 

Theo was trying to get whatever he could for a guy who wasn't going to make a difference in 2012 and wasn't going to be a part of the team beyond. I don't think salary relief was coming unless he took nothing in return.

[TruffleShuffle]

Volstad may not strike out many batters, but he limits walks much better than Zambrano. Volstad hasn’t been the most durable pitcher either, but he’s thrown 60+ more innings than Zambrano over the last two seasons. Their ERA might not show it, but Volstad has been nearly as good the last two years. Zambrano’s lead in FIP is a slim 4.17 to 4.33, and Volstad actually posted a superior xFIP (4.05) in that period.

 

one issue i had with that fangraphs piece is that zambrano has, up until last year, consistently outpitched his xFIP, to the point where you can't just write it off as a fluke. even with his ERA being a half run higher than his xFIP last year, his career ERA is still more than a half run higher than his xFIP.

[treebird]

http://www.csnchicago.com/blog/cubs-talk/post/Zambrano-trade-a-huge-win-for-Cubs?blockID=625036&feedID=8487

 

i hereby retract every post i've made in this thread

[SouthSideRyan]

 

No, it was still really stupid. What's really weird is that you pretty much acknowledged that it was stupid and made it anyway. And then defended it.

 

I don't know if stupid is as accurate a description as completely irrelevant to the discussion.

 

This is the Zambrano thread. The discussion is on Zambrano's career as a Cub ending. The comment was not meant to be anything but an interesting fact about the Cubs not benefitting a single postseason victory from him being on their roster. Although you could make the claim that they wouldn't have won any postseason games in 03 without Zambrano on the roster. It is not condemning Zambrano or even his individual starts (besides Game 1 of the NLCS). It is simply something that I found interesting that I thought others would as well. Nothing more. Nothing less. Stop reading into things,

 

Also Carlos Zambrano has hit 3 triples in his career. HOW INTERESTING

[SouthSideRyan]

Volstad may not strike out many batters, but he limits walks much better than Zambrano. Volstad hasn’t been the most durable pitcher either, but he’s thrown 60+ more innings than Zambrano over the last two seasons. Their ERA might not show it, but Volstad has been nearly as good the last two years. Zambrano’s lead in FIP is a slim 4.17 to 4.33, and Volstad actually posted a superior xFIP (4.05) in that period.

 

one issue i had with that fangraphs piece is that zambrano has, up until last year, consistently outpitched his xFIP, to the point where you can't just write it off as a fluke. even with his ERA being a half run higher than his xFIP last year, his career ERA is still more than a half run higher than his xFIP.

 

Yep.

[Little Slide Rooter]

some decent but not top prospects

 

the next time you find yourself typing the phrase "some decent prospects" or "a few prospects," try listing some names. proposals like "throw in a few prospects and get logan morrison back" are pointless.

 

I dont know the Marlins farm system but is Matt Dominguez + some equivalent of Dae Eun Rhee or Aaron Kurcz more to your liking? As for us, I'd have been willin to send Zambrano his entire salary, Szczur, and McNutt for Morrison and if they truely were trying to move LoMo for personal reasons, that would have been a sufficient package. If they wanted to throw in Volstad, that would be fine by me.

[Little Slide Rooter]

http://www.csnchicago.com/blog/cubs-talk/post/Zambrano-trade-a-huge-win-for-Cubs?blockID=625036&feedID=8487

 

i hereby retract every post i've made in this thread

 

WE REMOVED THE CANCER!!!

[abuck1220]

zambrano must have been a worse clubhouse cancer than actual cancer.

[SouthSideRyan]

I hope Kaplan gets hit by a bus.

[XZero771679666304]

Truly the worst part of seeing Z and ARam go is knowing it pleases Kaplan. I'm sure he feels some sort of smug vindication. He's probably masturbating as we speak.

[Little Slide Rooter]

1. Ryan Dempster

2. Travis Wood

3. Chris Volstad

4. Randy Wells

5. Andy Sonnenstine

 

1. David DeJesus RF

2. Starlin Castro SS

3. Marlon Byrd CF

4. Geovany Soto C

5. Ian Stewert 3B

6. Alfonso Soriano LF

7. Brian LaHair 1B

8. Darwin Barney 2B

 

Ooh ooh child, things are gonna get easier...

 

I still think Theo and Jed know what they're doing and The Cubs should be watchable again by 2013, but damn if 2012 isnt going to be depressing

Edited January 5, 2012 by Little Slide Rooter

[javy knows my name]

It's staggering how many worthless posts some little nothing trade like this garners. People posting links to the same thing 3 or 4 times, LLF talking about...anything, etc.

 

I nothing this trade. I don't understand the polarity it's garnering at all. And I don't understand why certain posters are still around.

[Little Slide Rooter]

It's staggering how many worthless posts some little nothing trade like this garners. People posting links to the same thing 3 or 4 times, LLF talking about...anything, etc.

 

I nothing this trade. I don't understand the polarity it's garnering at all. And I don't understand why certain posters are still around.

 

Little nothing trades don't tend to involve 18 million dollar players no matter their situation, but far be it from me to stand between you and your soap box.

[XZero771679666304]

1. Ryan Dempster

2. Travis Wood

3. Chris Volstad

4. Randy Wells

5. Andy Sonnenstine

 

1. David DeJesus RF

2. Starlin Castro SS

3. Marlon Byrd CF

4. Geovany Soto C

5. Ian Stewert 3B

6. Alfonso Soriano LF

7. Brian LaHair 1B

8. Darwin Barney 2B

 

Ooh ooh child, things are gonna get easier...

 

I still think Theo and Jed know what they're doing and The Cubs should be watchable again by 2013, but damn if 2012 isnt going to be depressing

 

Did Garza get traded and everyone missed it?

[Guest]

Volstad may not strike out many batters, but he limits walks much better than Zambrano. Volstad hasn’t been the most durable pitcher either, but he’s thrown 60+ more innings than Zambrano over the last two seasons. Their ERA might not show it, but Volstad has been nearly as good the last two years. Zambrano’s lead in FIP is a slim 4.17 to 4.33, and Volstad actually posted a superior xFIP (4.05) in that period.

 

one issue i had with that fangraphs piece is that zambrano has, up until last year, consistently outpitched his xFIP, to the point where you can't just write it off as a fluke. even with his ERA being a half run higher than his xFIP last year, his career ERA is still more than a half run higher than his xFIP.

 

Yea. There was that and the fact that they mentioned how Volstad had 60+ more innings when Zambrano's inning total was obviously severely impacted by his "suspension."

[bukie]

Volstad may not strike out many batters, but he limits walks much better than Zambrano. Volstad hasn’t been the most durable pitcher either, but he’s thrown 60+ more innings than Zambrano over the last two seasons. Their ERA might not show it, but Volstad has been nearly as good the last two years. Zambrano’s lead in FIP is a slim 4.17 to 4.33, and Volstad actually posted a superior xFIP (4.05) in that period.

 

one issue i had with that fangraphs piece is that zambrano has, up until last year, consistently outpitched his xFIP, to the point where you can't just write it off as a fluke. even with his ERA being a half run higher than his xFIP last year, his career ERA is still more than a half run higher than his xFIP.

 

Yea. There was that and the fact that they mentioned how Volstad had 60+ more innings when Zambrano's inning total was obviously severely impacted by his "suspension."

The author alluded to that in the article.

[XZero771679666304]

Volstad may not strike out many batters, but he limits walks much better than Zambrano. Volstad hasn’t been the most durable pitcher either, but he’s thrown 60+ more innings than Zambrano over the last two seasons. Their ERA might not show it, but Volstad has been nearly as good the last two years. Zambrano’s lead in FIP is a slim 4.17 to 4.33, and Volstad actually posted a superior xFIP (4.05) in that period.

 

one issue i had with that fangraphs piece is that zambrano has, up until last year, consistently outpitched his xFIP, to the point where you can't just write it off as a fluke. even with his ERA being a half run higher than his xFIP last year, his career ERA is still more than a half run higher than his xFIP.

 

Yea. There was that and the fact that they mentioned how Volstad had 60+ more innings when Zambrano's inning total was obviously severely impacted by his "suspension."

 

And his trip to the bullpen.

[Little Slide Rooter]

1. Ryan Dempster

2. Travis Wood

3. Chris Volstad

4. Randy Wells

5. Andy Sonnenstine

 

1. David DeJesus RF

2. Starlin Castro SS

3. Marlon Byrd CF

4. Geovany Soto C

5. Ian Stewert 3B

6. Alfonso Soriano LF

7. Brian LaHair 1B

8. Darwin Barney 2B

 

Ooh ooh child, things are gonna get easier...

 

I still think Theo and Jed know what they're doing and The Cubs should be watchable again by 2013, but damn if 2012 isnt going to be depressing

 

Did Garza get traded and everyone missed it?

 

Not yet but its likely and part of the reason why I think that the Cubs will be watchable again in 2013.

[JeffH]

1. Ryan Dempster

2. Travis Wood

3. Chris Volstad

4. Randy Wells

5. Andy Sonnenstine

 

1. David DeJesus RF

2. Starlin Castro SS

3. Marlon Byrd CF

4. Geovany Soto C

5. Ian Stewert 3B

6. Alfonso Soriano LF

7. Brian LaHair 1B

8. Darwin Barney 2B

 

Ooh ooh child, things are gonna get easier...

 

I still think Theo and Jed know what they're doing and The Cubs should be watchable again by 2013, but damn if 2012 isnt going to be depressing

 

Did Garza get traded and everyone missed it?

 

Yes, and traded for nothing.

[Guest]

Volstad may not strike out many batters, but he limits walks much better than Zambrano. Volstad hasn’t been the most durable pitcher either, but he’s thrown 60+ more innings than Zambrano over the last two seasons. Their ERA might not show it, but Volstad has been nearly as good the last two years. Zambrano’s lead in FIP is a slim 4.17 to 4.33, and Volstad actually posted a superior xFIP (4.05) in that period.

 

one issue i had with that fangraphs piece is that zambrano has, up until last year, consistently outpitched his xFIP, to the point where you can't just write it off as a fluke. even with his ERA being a half run higher than his xFIP last year, his career ERA is still more than a half run higher than his xFIP.

 

Yea. There was that and the fact that they mentioned how Volstad had 60+ more innings when Zambrano's inning total was obviously severely impacted by his "suspension."

The author alluded to that in the article.

 

Yes, but then he can't really use their IP totals to make some point about his durability, but he did.

[Brian]

The negativity is insane. They were spending 18 mill either way... What does it hurt to have Z pitch on the team... But what does it gain?? This is a lost season, nothing is gained by letting Carlos try to earn redemption... Theo/Jed just picked up a piece. Maybe he turns into something maybe not.

 

 

No one should care about the sunk money, that money is not going to come back to bite the Cubs ever.

[XZero771679666304]

 

I nothing this trade. I don't understand the polarity it's garnering at all.

 

I don't love it, but I understand why it happened and that this was about the most we could expect. The whole saga is just unfortunate.

[KingCubsFan]

Volstad may not strike out many batters, but he limits walks much better than Zambrano. Volstad hasn’t been the most durable pitcher either, but he’s thrown 60+ more innings than Zambrano over the last two seasons. Their ERA might not show it, but Volstad has been nearly as good the last two years. Zambrano’s lead in FIP is a slim 4.17 to 4.33, and Volstad actually posted a superior xFIP (4.05) in that period.

 

one issue i had with that fangraphs piece is that zambrano has, up until last year, consistently outpitched his xFIP, to the point where you can't just write it off as a fluke. even with his ERA being a half run higher than his xFIP last year, his career ERA is still more than a half run higher than his xFIP.

 

Yea. There was that and the fact that they mentioned how Volstad had 60+ more innings when Zambrano's inning total was obviously severely impacted by his "suspension."

The author alluded to that in the article.

 

Yes, but then he can't really use their IP totals to make some point about his durability, but he did.

He said he hasn't shown the same durability he has in the past, which is accurate. Even if he played the entire year, there was no guarantee he would have reached 200 innings. (and he hasn't in 4 years).

[CubColtPacer]

Volstad may not strike out many batters, but he limits walks much better than Zambrano. Volstad hasn’t been the most durable pitcher either, but he’s thrown 60+ more innings than Zambrano over the last two seasons. Their ERA might not show it, but Volstad has been nearly as good the last two years. Zambrano’s lead in FIP is a slim 4.17 to 4.33, and Volstad actually posted a superior xFIP (4.05) in that period.

 

one issue i had with that fangraphs piece is that zambrano has, up until last year, consistently outpitched his xFIP, to the point where you can't just write it off as a fluke. even with his ERA being a half run higher than his xFIP last year, his career ERA is still more than a half run higher than his xFIP.

 

No, it definitely wasn't a fluke, but there were different reasons for it recently than in the past. From 2002-2008, the main reason Z's ERA was always better than his xFIP was that his BABIP was low. And since he did it so consistently, it definitely wasn't a fluke.

 

In 2009-2011, his BABIP became league average. The big reason he performed his xFIPs in 2009 and 2010 is that he suddenly had one of the best HR/FB ratios in baseball (top 5-10 both years in fact). The HR/FB ratios even beat his 2003/2004 years when he was throwing his sinker more. One of those years he had his best IFFB rate, but the other year was one of his worst so no real explanation there.

 

In my opinion, those HR/FB rates were unsustainable. Maybe he won't have an 11.3% rate again like he had last year, but he's very unlikely to be below 6 or anywhere close to that. And the ability to control his BABIP has been gone for 3 years now, and the last time he had it he was throwing his fastball a lot more than he does anymore. So the xFIPs tell a much better story than they did earlier in his career.