Zambrano traded to Marlins for Chris Volstad (P. 8)

[XZero771679666304]

Not that it's a telling statistic or anything, but the Cubs were 0-5 in the postseason when Zambrano started including a horrendous outing in Game 1 of the NLCS.

 

This is a really [expletive] stupid post.

 

Not if you weren't supposed to derive anything from it other than, "Oh yeah. Guess they were." It's not like I made the claim, "This guy sucks in big games!" You need to lighten up.

 

No, it was still really stupid. What's really weird is that you pretty much acknowledged that it was stupid and made it anyway. And then defended it.

 

I don't know if stupid is as accurate a description as completely irrelevant to the discussion.

[SouthSideRyan]

I have no idea. It's certainly possible nobody did. Hell, it's possible some random player did better because there was a [expletive] he hated on the team or something. I just don't think it's worth putting up with a piece of [expletive] who treats at least some of his teammates like [expletive]. Not while he pretty much sucks and is only likely to get worse.

 

 

If he were actually good, different story.

 

Only likely to get worse than what? Last year's numbers? I'd bet a lot against that. It was way out of wack with the rest of his career.

[OleMissCub]

So we don't know what we are getting from the Fish yet? #toolazytowadethroughthelast15pages

[rawaction]

I hate Volstad just for the fact that he's 6'8" and doesn't strike out people. Seriously, what's the point of you being 6'8"?

[Outshined_One]

So we don't know what we are getting from the Fish yet? #toolazytowadethroughthelast15pages

 

Nothing has been made official yet, but the deal appears to be Zambrano + $15m for Volstad.

[OleMissCub]

So we don't know what we are getting from the Fish yet? #toolazytowadethroughthelast15pages

 

Nothing has been made official yet, but the deal appears to be Zambrano + $15m for Volstad.

 

that sucks

[Little Slide Rooter]

The only time Theo railroaded a high priced player out of town he didn't get a world series out of it but he did get Jason Bay. I'm not criticizing acquiring Chris Volstad as much as railroading Z out of town for nothing, if that is indeed all we get back. If nobody was willing to give up anything of value for him they should have given him until the summer to build his value.

 

Manny Ramirez was a hell of a lot better then than Z is.

 

and the red sox gave up two prospects in the deal, and paid ramirez' entire salary the rest of that year. great comparison WSR.

 

And they got a young, potentially elite player out of it. We got a young, potentially serviceable player. I'd have gladly thrown in a few prospects and te remaining 2.5 mil of Z's salary to turn Chris Volstad into Logan Morrison.

[Careless]

c) zambrano was mediocre last year, his line drive rate has increased for 5 years and his K rate dropped by almost 2 per 9 innings in 2012.

Man, judging trades is easy when your time zone is in the future

[Exile on Waveland]

I have always liked Big Z and stood up for him amongst friends. So, shine on you crazy diamond. However, that doesn't mean I forgot that he was, in fact, a crazy. While I'm not enamored with Volstad, he's younger, pitched as well as Zambrano last year, and I feel confident that he won't go on a murderous teammate rampage next year. It's hard for me to be upset about cutting bait -- and potentially getting an average-ish starter back -- from a declining malcontent.

[TruffleShuffle]

And they got a young, potentially elite player out of it. We got a young, potentially serviceable player. I'd have gladly thrown in a few prospects and te remaining 2.5 mil of Z's salary to turn Chris Volstad into Logan Morrison.

 

bay was in his age 30 season, heading into his most expensive arbitration year and only under their control for another year. and explain who these nebulous "few prospects" are that would turn volstad into morrison.

[Guest]

I have no idea. It's certainly possible nobody did. Hell, it's possible some random player did better because there was a [expletive] he hated on the team or something. I just don't think it's worth putting up with a piece of [expletive] who treats at least some of his teammates like [expletive]. Not while he pretty much sucks and is only likely to get worse.

 

 

If he were actually good, different story.

 

Only likely to get worse than what? Last year's numbers? I'd bet a lot against that. It was way out of wack with the rest of his career.

 

Stealing and slightly correcting Truffle's quote

c) zambrano was mediocre last year, his line drive rate has increased for 5 years and his K rate dropped by almost 2 per 9 innings in 2011.

 

 

I wouldn't bet on him bouncing back too much. Maybe a little. Or maybe last year was the beginning of the end end.

[SouthSideRyan]

Zambrano has been well above average in every season up until last year. And now because of that he can't even bounce back to even average?

 

Every [expletive] failed prospect is a breakout candidate, but once a veteran has a bad year he's toast?

Edited January 5, 2012 by SouthSideRyan

[Guest]

The only time Theo railroaded a high priced player out of town he didn't get a world series out of it but he did get Jason Bay. I'm not criticizing acquiring Chris Volstad as much as railroading Z out of town for nothing, if that is indeed all we get back. If nobody was willing to give up anything of value for him they should have given him until the summer to build his value.

 

Manny Ramirez was a hell of a lot better then than Z is.

 

and the red sox gave up two prospects in the deal, and paid ramirez' entire salary the rest of that year. great comparison WSR.

 

And they got a young, potentially elite player out of it. We got a young, potentially serviceable player. I'd have gladly thrown in a few prospects and te remaining 2.5 mil of Z's salary to turn Chris Volstad into Logan Morrison.

 

 

FFS, Manny Ramirez was really really good when he got traded. He was producing like an elite player. There is no comparison.

[Guest]

Zambrano has been well above average in every season up until last year. And now because of that he can't even bounce back to even average?

 

Every [expletive] failed prospect is a breakout candidate, but once a veteran has a bad year he's toast?

 

I think years of abuse is catching up to him. He's 30 (or maybe older) and just had a substantial decline in his K rate. He's been getting hit harder every year for a while now. He might bounce back some by accident, but I don't see him miraculously being much better than he was last year.

[JeffH]

And they got a young, potentially elite player out of it. We got a young, potentially serviceable player. I'd have gladly thrown in a few prospects and te remaining 2.5 mil of Z's salary to turn Chris Volstad into Logan Morrison.

 

bay was in his age 30 season, heading into his most expensive arbitration year and only under their control for another year. and explain who these nebulous "few prospects" are that would turn volstad into morrison.

 

Brett Jackson, Javier Baez, and Trey McNutt.

[TruffleShuffle]

fangraphs is quick.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/volstad-heads-to-chicago/

[treebird]

but I don't see him miraculously being much better than he was last year.

 

hahahahaha, really? zambrano now would require a miracle to have a season better than his worst one?

[XZero771679666304]

Zambrano has been well above average in every season up until last year. And now because of that he can't even bounce back to even average?

 

Every [expletive] failed prospect is a breakout candidate, but once a veteran has a bad year he's toast?

 

The real outlier over the past few season for Zambrano was the second half of 2010, when his babip took a nosedive. Take that out and it looks like downward trend.

 

I'm just not sure his stuff is there anymore. Could he have had a good first half? Sure. But I think it's just as likely he didn't. And it's not like there was a chance in hell he was going to be retained beyond 2012.

 

Even if he did have decent first half you have to balance that against the fact a trade partner was only going to get 2 months instead of a full season. It's just not likely we'd have gotten any more for him in July than right now, all things considered.

 

There certainly wasn't enough likelihood that there would be a significantly better deal in July to get at all upset about this.

Edited January 5, 2012 by XZero77

[Guest]

but I don't see him miraculously being much better than he was last year.

 

hahahahaha, really? zambrano now would require a miracle to have a season better than his worst one?

 

learn to read (and quote)

[treebird]

but I don't see him miraculously being much better than he was last year.

 

hahahahaha, really? zambrano now would require a miracle to have a season better than his worst one?

 

learn to read (and quote)

 

i miss the old david :(

[Little Slide Rooter]

The only time Theo railroaded a high priced player out of town he didn't get a world series out of it but he did get Jason Bay. I'm not criticizing acquiring Chris Volstad as much as railroading Z out of town for nothing, if that is indeed all we get back. If nobody was willing to give up anything of value for him they should have given him until the summer to build his value.

 

Manny Ramirez was a hell of a lot better then than Z is.

 

and the red sox gave up two prospects in the deal, and paid ramirez' entire salary the rest of that year. great comparison WSR.

 

And they got a young, potentially elite player out of it. We got a young, potentially serviceable player. I'd have gladly thrown in a few prospects and te remaining 2.5 mil of Z's salary to turn Chris Volstad into Logan Morrison.

 

FFS, Manny Ramirez was really really good when he got traded. He was producing like an elite player. There is no comparison.

 

Morrison would be a stretch but I just think we could have done better than what we got. My expectations were either eat a lot of salary and get some decent but not top prospects or eat a smaller amount of salary and get someone like Chris Volstad.

[Guest]

It's like the Ricketts and Theo are trying to pretend the Cubs are an expansion team. Either there is something we don't know about Ricketts ability to service the debt or the egos involved here are beyond huge.

 

Aramis and Z were my two favorite Cubs, guess its time to find new favorites.

 

Or they're building the team for long-term purposes exactly like they said they were going to do.

What? Z's gone after this year and if the news is true they are getting no salary relief. Volstad is not a building block, he's a non-tender candidate.

 

I think Theo was given his orders.

[TruffleShuffle]

some decent but not top prospects

 

the next time you find yourself typing the phrase "some decent prospects" or "a few prospects," try listing some names. proposals like "throw in a few prospects and get logan morrison back" are pointless.

[Sammys Boombox]

Not that it's a telling statistic or anything, but the Cubs were 0-5 in the postseason when Zambrano started including a horrendous outing in Game 1 of the NLCS.

 

This is a really [expletive] stupid post.

 

Not if you weren't supposed to derive anything from it other than, "Oh yeah. Guess they were." It's not like I made the claim, "This guy sucks in big games!" You need to lighten up.

 

No, it was still really stupid. What's really weird is that you pretty much acknowledged that it was stupid and made it anyway. And then defended it.

 

I don't know if stupid is as accurate a description as completely irrelevant to the discussion.

 

This is the Zambrano thread. The discussion is on Zambrano's career as a Cub ending. The comment was not meant to be anything but an interesting fact about the Cubs not benefitting a single postseason victory from him being on their roster. Although you could make the claim that they wouldn't have won any postseason games in 03 without Zambrano on the roster. It is not condemning Zambrano or even his individual starts (besides Game 1 of the NLCS). It is simply something that I found interesting that I thought others would as well. Nothing more. Nothing less. Stop reading into things,

[Guest]

It's like the Ricketts and Theo are trying to pretend the Cubs are an expansion team. Either there is something we don't know about Ricketts ability to service the debt or the egos involved here are beyond huge.

 

Aramis and Z were my two favorite Cubs, guess its time to find new favorites.

 

Or they're building the team for long-term purposes exactly like they said they were going to do.

What? Z's gone after this year and if the news is true they are getting no salary relief. Volstad is not a building block, he's a non-tender candidate.

 

I think Theo was given his orders.

 

The Cubs had many reasons for dealing Zambrano. While his frequent mound blowups and inability to control his emotions likely fed into the decision, Zambrano’s contract and declining performance were more likely the main reason he was dealt.

 

Over the past two seasons, Zambrano has barely been better than Volstad.

 

*This isn’t entirely fair. If you include 2009, Zambrano out-WARs Volstad 6.8 to 3.4. Volstad was awful that season, however, and has improved since. Zambrano has been in decline since 2009, which is why I compared their last two seasons.

 

While Zambrano is better at preventing home runs and racking up strikeouts, he’s only thrown 275.1 innings over the last two seasons. Some of that is due to injuries, some due to team-imposed suspensions and some due to an ill-fated move to the bullpen during the 2010 season. Still, he hasn’t shown the same durability he flashed earlier in his career — when he had five straight seasons of at least 200 innings pitched.

 

Volstad may not strike out many batters, but he limits walks much better than Zambrano. Volstad hasn’t been the most durable pitcher either, but he’s thrown 60+ more innings than Zambrano over the last two seasons. Their ERA might not show it, but Volstad has been nearly as good the last two years. Zambrano’s lead in FIP is a slim 4.17 to 4.33, and Volstad actually posted a superior xFIP (4.05) in that period.

 

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/volstad-heads-to-chicago/