Re: Sosa tested positive in 2003 per NY Times

[questionmarkgrace]

A couple of players from those really good Steel Curtain Steelers teams from the 70's have admitted to steroid use. If it was in football back then it was definitely in baseball. It is by no means a 90's phenomenon. Before that guys were using speed in the 60s and probably even as far back as the 40's. Its hard to say if modern baseball was ever pure.

[OleMissCub]

Cheating in some form or another has always existed in baseball. In the modern era, we have steroids obviously. In the 1950's-60's certain players used some form of amphetamines. You go back to the deadball era and you have trick pitches being used to doctor the ball such as shineballs and spitballs. There are also documented cases of home teams having spies in centerfield flashing signs using flashin lights or some other form of communication indicating to the batter whether the next pitch was a breaking pitch or a fastball, and other types of shenannigans of that ilk.

[Rob]

A couple of players from those really good Steel Curtain Steelers teams from the 70's have admitted to steroid use. If it was in football back then it was definitely in baseball. It is by no means a 90's phenomenon. Before that guys were using speed in the 60s and probably even as far back as the 40's. Its hard to say if modern baseball was ever pure.

 

It was in baseball in the 70's. Tom House has mentioned it a lot.

[Gmoney08]

When you are that rich, there are way too many skirts to chase to spend all that time in the gym pumping iron. Stick a needle, pump for 15 minutes and shower up for the ladies. It's party time!

 

This doesnt meen using Steroids is okay but they dont just magically make you stronger. Sosa and the rest are still a big disappointment for using the roids. But, I can guarantee you they were still busting their ass in the weight room. You dont just explode by putting a needle in you, to get Sosa type big, you need to live in the gym (even with the roids).

 

Roger Clemens, Bonds, McGwire as well, all shady but they were not lazy or just taking roids to make them stronger without working. They took the roids to enhance their workout that much more, and for recovery.

 

Again Roids are not okay but these guys werent just working out 15 minutes then showering up for the ladies.

[UK1679666180]

Currently playing future HOF hitters that likely never used steroids IMO are Griffey, Thome, and possibly Pujols (Chipper Jones would likely be next on the list and maybe Ichiro if he keeps going). That's a disappointing statement for MLB.

 

I have some reservations about Pujols being clean but, if he was one of the 104 names, it would've been leaked.

 

As far as Sosa, everyone should've suspected it.

[Banedon]

The record books will never be changed, but I have to think that everyone that is a legitimate baseball fan at this point has to regard the home run record as 61 again at this point, right?

[UK1679666180]

The record books will never be changed, but I have to think that everyone that is a legitimate baseball fan at this point has to regard the home run record as 61 again at this point, right?

 

 

There's no doubt about that.

[Derwood]

The record books will never be changed, but I have to think that everyone that is a legitimate baseball fan at this point has to regard the home run record as 61 again at this point, right?

 

 

There's no doubt about that.

 

As long as you believe Maris wasn't popping the greenies....

[Tracer Bullet]

The record books will never be changed, but I have to think that everyone that is a legitimate baseball fan at this point has to regard the home run record as 61 again at this point, right?

 

 

There's no doubt about that.

 

As long as you believe Maris wasn't popping the greenies....

 

I'm far less bothered by greenies than the cream and the clear.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

As long as you believe Maris wasn't popping the greenies....

 

I'm far less bothered by greenies than the cream and the clear.

 

That's your call, but a PED is a PED is a PED. I'm not going to give some guys a pass because their's wasn't as effective.

[Banedon]

The record books will never be changed, but I have to think that everyone that is a legitimate baseball fan at this point has to regard the home run record as 61 again at this point, right?

 

 

There's no doubt about that.

 

As long as you believe Maris wasn't popping the greenies....

 

I'm far less bothered by greenies than the cream and the clear.

 

I think this is the common reaction. Greenies are somehow far more acceptable in baseball to fans and media.

[SouthSideRyan]

The record books will never be changed, but I have to think that everyone that is a legitimate baseball fan at this point has to regard the home run record as 61 again at this point, right?

 

73

[SouthSideRyan]

Currently playing future HOF hitters that likely never used steroids IMO are Griffey, Thome, and possibly Pujols (Chipper Jones would likely be next on the list and maybe Ichiro if he keeps going).

 

Why?

 

I have some reservations about Pujols being clean but, if he was one of the 104 names, it would've been leaked.

 

And why?

[abuck1220]

When you are that rich, there are way too many skirts to chase to spend all that time in the gym pumping iron. Stick a needle, pump for 15 minutes and shower up for the ladies. It's party time!

 

This doesnt meen using Steroids is okay but they dont just magically make you stronger. Sosa and the rest are still a big disappointment for using the roids. But, I can guarantee you they were still busting their ass in the weight room. You dont just explode by putting a needle in you, to get Sosa type big, you need to live in the gym (even with the roids).

 

Roger Clemens, Bonds, McGwire as well, all shady but they were not lazy or just taking roids to make them stronger without working. They took the roids to enhance their workout that much more, and for recovery.

 

Again Roids are not okay but these guys werent just working out 15 minutes then showering up for the ladies.

 

yeah, if it was easy as a shot and a 15 minute workout, 50% of the male population would look like sosa.

[Soul]

As long as you believe Maris wasn't popping the greenies....

 

I'm far less bothered by greenies than the cream and the clear.

 

That's your call, but a PED is a PED is a PED. I'm not going to give some guys a pass because their's wasn't as effective.

 

I don't view it that way. An upper doesn't come close to the mad science experiments of latter-day roids, IMO.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I don't view it that way. An upper doesn't come close to the mad science experiments of latter-day roids, IMO.

 

So if the PED isn't as effective, it's okay?

 

If anything, I prefer the modern-day roids, because at least for a few of them, the long-term health implications are actually not too bad, which is the only really good reason to ban them anyway.

 

(Not to mention there was likely a lot more regular-old steroid use going on than we'll ever know for sure).

[Jehrico]

I'm a little late to the conversation. Most people are saying they aren't surprised.

 

I'm surprised. I'm surprised that Sammy managed to keep any and all proof and witnesses that he was doing this out of sight without anyone finding out until now. He's not a smart guy, and there's been tons of people looking into him. I don't know how he wasn't exposed before this. That is, if this leak is legit (I think it is). I'm still waiting to see this stupid list released in its entirety.

[SouthSideRyan]

As long as you believe Maris wasn't popping the greenies....

 

I'm far less bothered by greenies than the cream and the clear.

 

That's your call, but a PED is a PED is a PED. I'm not going to give some guys a pass because their's wasn't as effective.

 

I don't view it that way. An upper doesn't come close to the mad science experiments of latter-day roids, IMO.

 

Cheating's ok as long as it only helps you play a certain % better. (% to be determined based on who used what when I was growing up back when everything was pure)

[Jehrico]

The record books will never be changed, but I have to think that everyone that is a legitimate baseball fan at this point has to regard the home run record as 61 again at this point, right?

 

73

61.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Here's the deal: Sports haven't been clean for decades and they certainly never will be now.

 

With a million-dollar paycheck on the line, there are always going to be guys who are a few steps ahead of the tester. Always.

[Derwood]

I'm a little late to the conversation. Most people are saying they aren't surprised.

 

I'm surprised. I'm surprised that Sammy managed to keep any and all proof and witnesses that he was doing this out of sight without anyone finding out until now. He's not a smart guy, and there's been tons of people looking into him. I don't know how he wasn't exposed before this. That is, if this leak is legit (I think it is). I'm still waiting to see this stupid list released in its entirety.

 

It doesn't take much to conceal it, though. As long as you aren't a d-bag who screws over your trainer (coughclemenscough) then everyone is going to cover for you. Just watch the MLB Network; most of their studio guys were active during the Steroid Era, yet they all act like nobody they knew/played with was doing anything. We all know this is complete BS, but the fraternity of professional athletes generally doesn't rat each other out.

[Sammys Boombox]

I have some reservations about Pujols being clean but, if he was one of the 104 names, it would've been leaked.

 

I said this about Sosa about a week ago. I was wrong. There are still some big names on there and I don't think I'll be surprised to hear just about any names if the full list does ever come out. You have to remember that the people who did leak Sosa's and ARod's names did so illegally. We may never see the other 102.

[Soul]

As long as you believe Maris wasn't popping the greenies....

 

I'm far less bothered by greenies than the cream and the clear.

 

That's your call, but a PED is a PED is a PED. I'm not going to give some guys a pass because their's wasn't as effective.

 

I don't view it that way. An upper doesn't come close to the mad science experiments of latter-day roids, IMO.

 

Cheating's ok as long as it only helps you play a certain % better. (% to be determined based on who used what when I was growing up back when everything was pure)

 

I realize there's a slippery slope aspect, but I just can't get to the point of considering a greenie on the same level as modern roids.

 

I can get much the same effect from drinking 5 cups of coffee as a greenie. It's a pep pill, an old one -- doesn't even come close to more modern-day amphetamines such as meth.

 

Shall we condemn players if they have too much coffee in the morning too now?

[soapy]

any word on what he tested positive for? all i've seen is PED. i know most are assuming steroids, and it likely doesn't matter, but i was/am curious.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Shall we condemn players if they have too much coffee in the morning too now?

 

If it was illegal and ingested for performance-enhancing purposes, I don't see why not.

 

But then, I'd rather just see a lot of PEDs become legal. I think we'll see HGH get to that point some day.