Lous a freaking idiot Part 2 2009 season

[Keener98]

Lou made bad decisions yesterday but I'm not eager for another year of "HE'S A FREAKING IDIOT." He's not an idiot. He's a pretty good manager who sometimes makes bad decisions. He's a mediocre in-game manager, but a very good talent evaluator. There isn't a single manager in baseball who is perfect, so I'm not sure why everyone expects Lou to be flawless, day in and day out.

 

Hes not a mediocre in game manager, hes a terrible in game manager. The decisions yesterday were very very simple decisions to make, yet he screwed up every single one from like the 7th inning on.

 

Oh and if you arent eager for another year of "Hes a freaking idiot", its quite simple to not open up the thread that is clearly titled "Lous a freaking idiot". Just a tip.

[Tyrant]

Hes not a mediocre in game manager, hes a terrible in game manager.

 

No, he isn't. It just looks like it when every bad decision is blown up and highlighted.

 

Lou is the best Cubs manage in a long, long, long time and it's annoying to hear people freak out over every little thing he does. I know it's the basis for every message board, but it's hypersensitive overreaction.

 

And you're right, I probably shouldn't read any of these threads, since I already know what is inside.

[Careless]

Hes not a mediocre in game manager, hes a terrible in game manager.

 

No, he isn't. It just looks like it when every bad decision is blown up and highlighted.

 

Lou is the best Cubs manage in a long, long, long time and it's annoying to hear people freak out over every little thing he does. I know it's the basis for every message board, but it's hypersensitive overreaction.

 

And you're right, I probably shouldn't read any of these threads, since I already know what is inside.

It looks like he's a bad manager when he makes a ridiculously long string of consecutive bad decisions and we highlight them by pointing them out? How else do you judge managing?

 

His managing yesterday was worse than someone picking players to use at random. In the case of Miles, he picked the worst non-pitcher on the team to use. He screwed up the use of every single reliever, and he went through quite a few of them.

[cubsfan26]

Wow this board can be bad. Lou is not a horrible in game manager, he's average. Lou also makes alot of good decisions, but good moves a manager can make never get brought up. I don't think fans realize that and honestly you can follow any big league team and make simliar negative comments about any manager moves. Alot of decisions depends on a managers insticts, and what a manager knows that we don't know. When I say what we don't know. I mean reports by scouts, reports by coaches on how the pitchers looked today in warm ups and so on.

 

 

 

When it goes right people don't say anything about the manager and talk about the players doing well. But when things go wrong like today, fans go overboard and start acting stupid and calling Lou an idiot. If Miles pinch hits and gets a double and two runs score. Then Marshall/Vizcaino pitch a scoreless 8th and Gregg gets the save in the 9th. Then people are just talking about how it was a good game right now, and nobody is really bashing Piniella. If Piniella makes the decisions that many people wanted him to make and we still don't win fans are still complaining about him not doing something different. If Hoffpauir pinch hits and strikes out, people would be saying Piniella should have went with a contact hitter like Miles. If there was a real by the book way of managing, then any person on this board could manage a team There's so much stuff that we don't know about when Lou makes these decisions. So we can call him a idiot or whatever, thats our right as fans. But it's pretty pointless and we all could be the ones wrong and not even realize it. Thats why these manager bashing threads are a big waste of time.

Edited April 11, 2009 by cubsfan26

[cubsfan26]

Hes not a mediocre in game manager, hes a terrible in game manager.

 

No, he isn't. It just looks like it when every bad decision is blown up and highlighted.

 

Lou is the best Cubs manage in a long, long, long time and it's annoying to hear people freak out over every little thing he does. I know it's the basis for every message board, but it's hypersensitive overreaction.

 

And you're right, I probably shouldn't read any of these threads, since I already know what is inside.

It looks like he's a bad manager when he makes a ridiculously long string of consecutive bad decisions and we highlight them by pointing them out? How else do you judge managing?

 

His managing yesterday was worse than someone picking players to use at random. In the case of Miles, he picked the worst non-pitcher on the team to use. He screwed up the use of every single reliever, and he went through quite a few of them.

 

 

Became a fan of another team, and you will see simliar long string of consecutive bad decisions by a manager. When you play a 162 games you can't go by the book all the time and you gotta do different things. Alot of times it works, and nobody ever talks about it. Other times you got egg on your face like Piniella does today. As a manager you can't always make the logical move and expect it to work.

 

 

You gotta go outside the box, and do different things. Anybody can go out and manage a game doing the logical moves that make sense. Having a good singles hitter like Miles at the plate when your trying to get a run home from third isn't really a rare thing either. Double plays happen, the point of that situation was to make contact. So Lou put the best contact hitter he had on the bench. If he puts Hoffpauir up there he could have easily been bashed for putting a guy who's more likely to strike out then make contact and get that run home from third without a hit. If you watch a bunch of different Major League games I think you will see a contact hitter like Miles pinch hitting in that situation more often then a power guy like Hoffpauir. So I think that move was more logical then fans realize, but the reliever stuff was a bit of a mess yesterday. But like I said before those things happen, and you gotta go on gut instict alot.

[javy knows my name]

Wow this board can be bad. Lou is not a horrible in game manager, he's average. Lou also makes alot of good decisions, but good moves a manager can make never get brought up. I don't think fans realize that and honestly you can follow any big league team and make simliar negative comments about any manager. Alot of decisions depends on a managers insticts, and what a manager knows that we don't know. When I say what we don't know. I mean reports by scouts, reports by coaches on how the pitchers looked today in warm ups and so on. When it goes right people don't say anything about the manager and talk about the players doing well. But when things go wrong like today, fans go overboard and start acting like idiots and calling Lou an idiot. If Miles pinch hits and gets a double and two runs score. Then Marshall/Vizcaino pitch a scoreless 8th and Gregg gets the save in the 9th. Then people are just talking about how it was a good game right now, and nobody is really bashing Piniella. Yes if Piniella makes the decisions that many people wanted him to make, fans are still probably complaining about him. If Hoffpauir pinch hits and strikes out, people would be saying Piniella should have went with a contract singles hitter like Miles.

 

 

If there was a real by the book way of managing, that any person on this board could do. Then MLB managers would be getting paid alot less money. There's so much stuff that we don't know about when Lou makes these decisions. So we can call him a idiot or whatever, thats our right as fans. But it's pretty pointless and we all could be the ones wrong and not even realize it. Thats why this will be the last manager bashing thread I'll take part of, because it's a big waste of time.

 

This whole post is noise. Only a select few morons on here are going to overlook poor managerial decisions if the results bear out favorably. I resent the implication that I don't know the difference between a low-percentage move or a high-percentage move if the results don't fall in line.

 

Lou continually makes poor in-game decisions and has never shown that he is capable of managing a bullpen while on the Cubs. Whether we win or lose or Miles hits a blooper or Theriot steals home when the pitcher keels over mid-throw, poor decisions are poor decisions and deserve to be recognized as such. And I feel very safe in saying that even if Lou has some magical scouting report that supports his decision to pinch hit Miles in that situation, he is putting too much stock in it and STILL over-managing, which is the number-one critique of him, anyway

[cubsfan26]

I'm glad you feel that way, but your probably wrong. I'm sure you watched alot of games on tv, or maybe even coached Little league, so you think you know what your talking about. I'm not gonna debate this crap, but it's really funny how people can act like they know so much. People are sitting here bashing a guy for being a horrible in game manager, when he's been doing it for over 20 years(rarely been out of work), and is a borderline hall of fame manager. If Lou was really that bad he wouldn't have been managing as long as he has.

 

 

If anybody thinks Lou is bad they should watch Tony LaRussa manage. Yet many believe he's one of the all time greatest managers. I don't think fans realize that the difference from average joe little league manager, and veteran big league manager is there gut instrict moves that don't always seem logical but work out more then they don't. Like I said before when they don't work out the manager looks like a jackass. But when they do nobody talks about how it was a great move by the manager. Yet if you watch a bunch of games from different teams, you will see simliar things done as Pineilla did yesterday. But hey if fans need to bash Piniella to feel better, well thats fine with me. I just don't see the point of it. Because his track records tells us he will be right alot more then wrong like yesterday, when making a decision that we probably won't like. When are fans ever happy with a manager, and always love his game decisions when they don't work out? Name a manager that doesn't get bashed by his fan base for making a poor in game decision at least once a week?

[javy knows my name]

I'm glad you feel that way, but your probably wrong. I'm sure you watched alot of games on tv, or maybe even coached Little league, so you think you know what your talking about. I'm not gonna debate this crap, but it's really funny how people can act like they know so much. People are sitting here bashing a guy for being a horrible in game manager, when he's been doing it for over 20 years(rarely been out of work), and is a borderline hall of fame manager. If Lou was really that bad he wouldn't have been managing as long as he has.

 

 

If anybody thinks Lou is bad they should watch Tony LaRussa manage. Yet many believe he's one of the all time greatest managers. You really need to find better things to do then pretend they know more about a decision or could make a better decision then a guy who's been doing it his whole life. I don't think fans realize that the difference from average joe little league manager, and veteran big league manager is there gut instrict moves that don't seem logical but work out more then they don't. Like I said before when they don't work out the manager looks like a jackass. But when they do nobody talks about how it was a great move by the manager. Yet if you watch a bunch of games from different teams, you will see simliar things done as Pineilla did yesterday.

 

Yes, you did say that before. And yes, you're still wrong.

 

Only morons like those I mentioned above think LaRussa is more than a capable manager.

 

I don't appreciate the condescending tone, either. And I don't know what to tell you if you think I'm some old-school disciple of the game. Little league manager, how embarrassing for you.

 

And do try to use correct grammar when you condescend to me.

[NewUserName]

I am happy that Lou manages the Cubs....he has put a process into place that allows them to be successful. Sadly he is the biggest enemy to that process sometimes with his in game decisions. Yesterday was maddening.

[Jehrico]

That was easily one of the worst 5 over-managed games I've ever seen in my life. I could have sworn we still had Dusty in the dugout.

 

That said, I still like Lou. He's going to make some good decisions and some bad decisions throughout the year. I think his pluses outweigh his minuses.

[FadeToBolivia]

I don't appreciate the condescending tone, either. And I don't know what to tell you if you think I'm some old-school disciple of the game. Little league manager, how embarrassing for you.

 

And do try to use correct grammar when you condescend to me.

 

 

If this is the first condescending post you've come across, you should be happy.

[17 Seconds]

Wow this board can be bad. Lou is not a horrible in game manager, he's average. Lou also makes alot of good decisions, but good moves a manager can make never get brought up. I don't think fans realize that and honestly you can follow any big league team and make simliar negative comments about any manager moves. Alot of decisions depends on a managers insticts, and what a manager knows that we don't know. When I say what we don't know. I mean reports by scouts, reports by coaches on how the pitchers looked today in warm ups and so on.

 

 

 

When it goes right people don't say anything about the manager and talk about the players doing well. But when things go wrong like today, fans go overboard and start acting stupid and calling Lou an idiot. If Miles pinch hits and gets a double and two runs score. Then Marshall/Vizcaino pitch a scoreless 8th and Gregg gets the save in the 9th. Then people are just talking about how it was a good game right now, and nobody is really bashing Piniella. If Piniella makes the decisions that many people wanted him to make and we still don't win fans are still complaining about him not doing something different. If Hoffpauir pinch hits and strikes out, people would be saying Piniella should have went with a contact hitter like Miles. If there was a real by the book way of managing, then any person on this board could manage a team There's so much stuff that we don't know about when Lou makes these decisions. So we can call him a idiot or whatever, thats our right as fans. But it's pretty pointless and we all could be the ones wrong and not even realize it. Thats why these manager bashing threads are a big waste of time.

 

oh look another free pass. forget the fact that lou's in game managing was brutal last year also. "oh but we won 97 games, so he was awesome!"

[Yeti]

how many more times are we going have to see Cotts walk/give up dingers to Fielder, this year?

[BigSlick]

Lou made bad decisions yesterday but I'm not eager for another year of "HE'S A FREAKING IDIOT." He's not an idiot. He's a pretty good manager who sometimes makes bad decisions. He's a mediocre in-game manager, but a very good talent evaluator. There isn't a single manager in baseball who is perfect, so I'm not sure why everyone expects Lou to be flawless, day in and day out.

This is the most important thing. Lou has almost always started and given playing time to the best players he has on the field, and thats a ton of credit given our experience with Dusty

 

Any manager, save a Billy Beane-esque figurehead, would drive us insane with moves. Thats just the way it works in baseball.

[Old Style]

I was questioning his decision to put Johnson in RF and leave Fukudome in CF when Bradley went out shortly before Reed's amazing catch to save the lead. Lou must be a frigging genius.

 

:grin:

[dew1679666265]

I am happy that Lou manages the Cubs....he has put a process into place that allows them to be successful. Sadly he is the biggest enemy to that process sometimes with his in game decisions. Yesterday was maddening.

 

This is pretty much what I think. Lou has his downfalls and they hurt us more often than they should, but more importantly he has successfully implemented the best approach for the hitters and surrounded them with more than capable coaches to keep them on track.

 

If Lou costs us X number of games this year with poor in-game decisions, he's won far more with the overall approach he's stressed to the hitters.

[Rob]

Words like "bad" and "terrible" are awkward when it comes to judging managers... as the pool of people you're comparing them to can be different. With players, we know we're comparing them to other players... with managers, are we comparing them to other managers or to what decisions any of us might make?

 

Lou is probably about average tactically compared to other mlb managers... but I'd venture to say that he's not nearly as good as those of us on the board that have taken the time to familiarize ourselves with the math behind the decisions.

 

That said, a good portion of his job also consists of handling the egos of everybody on this team... which almost certainly has some impact on a few of his oddball decisions. And that is a job that I don't think anybody on this board is even remotely qualified to criticize him for, as he has (generally) done a pretty good job... with a few notable exceptions (Hill, Pie, etc...)

[javy knows my name]

I don't appreciate the condescending tone, either. And I don't know what to tell you if you think I'm some old-school disciple of the game. Little league manager, how embarrassing for you.

 

And do try to use correct grammar when you condescend to me.

 

 

If this is the first condescending post you've come across, you should be happy.

 

Where did I say it was the first? I will say it might be the first time I've been totally blinded with wrongness and also patronized by the same poster.

[Ski]

Whoops, thought this was the game thread.

[Tyrant]

Lou is probably about average tactically compared to other mlb managers... but I'd venture to say that he's not nearly as good as those of us on the board that have taken the time to familiarize ourselves with the math behind the decisions.

 

While I'm not one to automatically say Lou knows more than anyone on a message board, it's definitely a tough call. I think even the smartest posters on this board would make mounds of errors in attempting to manage a 162-game season.

 

None of that means people can't criticize Lou. That's why sports message boards exist. My objection comes from calling him an idiot or a "terrible" manager. It's just not true.

[Soul]

I still like Lou, but it's hard to defend some of his decisions. I guess I do give him a bit of a free pass -- but so what? I'm looking for wins. When my team loses & sucks, then I start looking for heads. When they win, I'm happy.

[SouthSideRyan]

Letting Gooz hit for himself was...questionable.

[flyseye]

 

Lou is probably about average tactically compared to other mlb managers... but I'd venture to say that he's not nearly as good as those of us on the board that have taken the time to familiarize ourselves with the math behind the decisions.

 

 

Please tell me you are joking.

[Keener98]

Letting Gooz hit for himself was...questionable.

 

It was questionable, but with the bench situation, and the weather situation, Im not sure what other choice he had. Bench was short as is, and quite frankly with the cold, and rain, Id rather not see Z or Demp go up to hit after sitting all day. Today was a perfect day for a pulled muscle if not stretched out properly.

[RedFlash]

Lou is prolly the Cubs best manager since Zim. And while he does make some :banghead: and :-k moves during the game, it doesn't mean it was a bad move just questionable at best. Those moves become worse if the team loses, or a players gets hurt. I'd still take Lou Piniella over any manager in the game and that includes TLR and Bobby Cox.