Cubs acquire Kevin Gregg for Jose Ceda

[17 Seconds]

Stop trying to ct like I think Ceda is some great player who we'll regret getting rid of.

 

That is the whole point of this thread. You summed it up beautifully. If Ceda isn't that great of a player and we won't really regret getting rid of him, why is everyone up in arms about it?

 

Edit: Oh, and WHIP wasn't the only stat I was looking at for Gregg. It was just an example I gave because you kept asking for stats like yopu were unable to find them yourself.

 

HE'S NOT THAT GOOD

 

Ah, yes, my mistake. I did not know how to reference a WHIP stat, even though I brought up one. You, sir, are good.

 

"That is the whole point of this thread. You summed it up beautifully. If Ceda isn't that great of a player and we won't really regret getting rid of him, why is everyone up in arms about it?"

 

Oh my god. BECAUSE HE HAS TRADE VALUE. This really isn't hard to understand. Everybody and their mothers understand how trade value works and that Gregg's value is less than Ceda's....except you.

 

Then take the time to show it to me. If you can take the time to respond to all of my messages, then surely that is not too much for you to do.

 

What are you basing this statement of absolute truth off of? Surely there must be a better reason than 'because I said it was'. That is all you have shown thus far.

 

And how can a player that isn't that great, that we won't miss, have such a high value that it is worth publicly trashing the GM over?

 

Take time to show you what? His trade value? Are you being serious right now? How could I possibly do that?

 

How about this..... show me that he doesn't have the best trade value of any player ever... in the history of baseball. SHOW ME OR IT ISN'T TRUE.

 

Seriously, you're saying some pretty dumb things right now.

 

I can show you what relief minor league prospects typically get traded for. That is what trade value is. It shows what the market values of that type of player in that type of position.

 

Trust me, I am aware I say lots of dumb things. It does happen. I am just wondering how smart it is to say for fact that Ceda has more trade value than Gregg, and then come out and say you have no way to show that.

 

Because I follow baseball and I know what baseball people say about Ceda and I know who Kevin Gregg is. Probably because I watch baseball.

 

So is everybody else in this thread wrong about the trade and you're right? That's basically what you're saying.

[Outshined_One]

Let's have some fun with numbers!

 

Kevin Gregg in 2008

 

BB/9: 4.85

K/9: 7.60

HR/9: 0.39

H/9: 6.68

 

Carlos Marmol in 2008

 

BB/9: 4.23

K/9: 11.75

HR/9: 1.03

H/9: 4.12

 

Kerry Wood in 2008

 

BB/9: 2.44

K/9: 11.40

HR/9: 0.41

H/9: 7.33

 

Bob Howry in 2008

 

BB/9: 1.66

K/9: 7.51

HR/9: 1.66

H/9: 11.42

 

I'm comparing Gregg to those three because they were the three most used relievers by the Cubs last season. While these numbers are not perfect evaluators (H/9 especially), they provide a helpful baseline that supplements a lot of what we saw over the course of last season. For example, it should surprise no one that Wood and Marmol struck out batters at an unholy rate last season.

 

Gregg's best attribute is the ability to keep the ball in the park. He also doesn't give up a whole lot of hits. However, he has a worse problem with walks than Marmol. Unlike Marmol, he doesn't strike guys out. Essentially, I'm seeing a guy who gets himself into jams by giving up a bunch of walks, but gets out of them through putting the ball into play rather than through striking guys out. That's a bit worrying.

 

My stance on the trade is this. I've liked Ceda since the Cubs got him in the Todd Walker trade, but I've also realized that the guy has a bit of an injury history and may not be able to harness his command and control effectively. I'm a bit sad to see him go, but he's expendable. I'm more upset that we actually acquired Gregg. I don't see a whole lot to like.

[Derwood]

it's just not the offseason until you guys start freaking out about Hendry.

 

thanks for kicking it off with a bang

[SouthSideRyan]

Let's have some fun with numbers!

 

Kevin Gregg in 2008

 

BB/9: 4.85

K/9: 7.60

HR/9: 0.39

H/9: 6.68

 

Carlos Marmol in 2008

 

BB/9: 4.23

K/9: 11.75

HR/9: 1.03

H/9: 4.12

 

Kerry Wood in 2008

 

BB/9: 2.44

K/9: 11.40

HR/9: 0.41

H/9: 7.33

 

Bob Howry in 2008

 

BB/9: 1.66

K/9: 7.51

HR/9: 1.66

H/9: 11.42

 

I'm comparing Gregg to those three because they were the three most used relievers by the Cubs last season. While these numbers are not perfect evaluators (H/9 especially), they provide a helpful baseline that supplements a lot of what we saw over the course of last season. For example, it should surprise no one that Wood and Marmol struck out batters at an unholy rate last season.

 

Gregg's best attribute is the ability to keep the ball in the park. He also doesn't give up a whole lot of hits. However, he has a worse problem with walks than Marmol. Unlike Marmol, he doesn't strike guys out. Essentially, I'm seeing a guy who gets himself into jams by giving up a bunch of walks, but gets out of them through putting the ball into play rather than through striking guys out. That's a bit worrying.

 

On the bright side, he managed to survive doing that with a horrible defense behind him, and he's moving to a good one.

 

On the negative side, everything else.

[BigbadB]

Gregg should be compared to Gagne, since they both wear goofy glasses.

[TheRaven]

Because I follow baseball and I know what baseball people say about Ceda and I know who Kevin Gregg is. Probably because I watch baseball.

 

So is everybody else in this thread wrong about the trade and you're right? That's basically what you're saying.

 

That hardly is trade value.

 

As to the trade itself, I really haven't commented on the aspect of it being a good or bad move. I have commented numerous times that the deal is not worth blowing up the GM over.

Edited November 13, 2008 by TheRaven

[Derwood]

Pitchers currently in the system that aren't starters that I'd rather see on the mound than Kevin Gregg with the game on the line.

 

Marmol, Gooz, Samardzija, Cotts, Gaudin, Wuertz, Marshall(if he's not a starter)

 

THAT IS 7 GUYS

 

A FULL BULLPEN.

 

That's without even getting into whether Gregg is even better than Ceda right now.

 

I just looked up Gregg's stats from the past two years, and I've confirmed that this post is completely insane

[Guest]

i think the marlins got more for crummy ass kevin gregg than they did for willingham and olsen.

 

No need to think about it, I'd rather have Ceda than Bonaficio and the other two low level guys the Nationals gave up.

[cubsfan26]

Pitchers currently in the system that aren't starters that I'd rather see on the mound than Kevin Gregg with the game on the line.

 

Marmol, Gooz, Samardzija, Cotts, Gaudin, Wuertz, Marshall(if he's not a starter)

 

THAT IS 7 GUYS

 

A FULL BULLPEN.

 

That's without even getting into whether Gregg is even better than Ceda right now.

 

What I'm trying to say is we may have literally been better off releasing Jose Ceda. The fact that that can even be a stretch of the imagination is mind-blowing.

 

 

 

I would take Gregg over Wuertz and Cotts. Possibly over Gaudin and Samardzija, it depends on what Samardzija is pitching. The guy we saw in July and most of August, or the guy in September. Gregg has pretty good stuff, I don't see him as some crap reliever.

Edited November 13, 2008 by cubsfan26

[mul21]

SSR, I know you were being sarcastic for effect, but we certainly would not have been better of just releasing Ceda. Not only did we get a serviceable reliever back but also, as has been mentioned ad nauseum, the potential for 2 high draft picks next off season for the 2010 draft.

[Soul]

Let's have some fun with numbers!

 

Kevin Gregg in 2008

 

BB/9: 4.85

K/9: 7.60

HR/9: 0.39

H/9: 6.68

 

Carlos Marmol in 2008

 

BB/9: 4.23

K/9: 11.75

HR/9: 1.03

H/9: 4.12

 

Kerry Wood in 2008

 

BB/9: 2.44

K/9: 11.40

HR/9: 0.41

H/9: 7.33

 

Bob Howry in 2008

 

BB/9: 1.66

K/9: 7.51

HR/9: 1.66

H/9: 11.42

 

I'm comparing Gregg to those three because they were the three most used relievers by the Cubs last season. While these numbers are not perfect evaluators (H/9 especially), they provide a helpful baseline that supplements a lot of what we saw over the course of last season. For example, it should surprise no one that Wood and Marmol struck out batters at an unholy rate last season.

 

Gregg's best attribute is the ability to keep the ball in the park. He also doesn't give up a whole lot of hits. However, he has a worse problem with walks than Marmol. Unlike Marmol, he doesn't strike guys out. Essentially, I'm seeing a guy who gets himself into jams by giving up a bunch of walks, but gets out of them through putting the ball into play rather than through striking guys out. That's a bit worrying.

 

On the bright side, he managed to survive doing that with a horrible defense behind him, and he's moving to a good one.

 

On the negative side, everything else.

 

His K numbers are like Howry. And he's coming to Chicago. You know, to pitch like Howry.

[17 Seconds]

Because I follow baseball and I know what baseball people say about Ceda and I know who Kevin Gregg is. Probably because I watch baseball.

 

So is everybody else in this thread wrong about the trade and you're right? That's basically what you're saying.

 

That hardly is trade value.

 

As to the trade itself, I really haven't commented on the aspect of it being a good or bad move. I have commented numerous times that the deal is not worth blowing up the GM over.

 

Where did I "blow up"? I said it was a bad trade.

 

And why are you only questioning me when everyone else is saying the same thing? Did I bang your girl or something?

[mul21]

 

Where did I "blow up"? I said it was a bad trade.

 

And why are you only questioning me when everyone else is saying the same thing? Did I bang your girl or something?

 

I'm pretty sure he's confusing you with JeffH, who would still bash Hendry even if he brought home 4 straight World Series titles.

Edited November 13, 2008 by mul21

[TheRaven]

Because I follow baseball and I know what baseball people say about Ceda and I know who Kevin Gregg is. Probably because I watch baseball.

 

So is everybody else in this thread wrong about the trade and you're right? That's basically what you're saying.

 

That hardly is trade value.

 

As to the trade itself, I really haven't commented on the aspect of it being a good or bad move. I have commented numerous times that the deal is not worth blowing up the GM over.

 

Where did I "blow up"? I said it was a bad trade.

 

And why are you only questioning me when everyone else is saying the same thing? Did I bang your girl or something?

 

That is precisely it.

[17 Seconds]

Because I follow baseball and I know what baseball people say about Ceda and I know who Kevin Gregg is. Probably because I watch baseball.

 

So is everybody else in this thread wrong about the trade and you're right? That's basically what you're saying.

 

That hardly is trade value.

 

As to the trade itself, I really haven't commented on the aspect of it being a good or bad move. I have commented numerous times that the deal is not worth blowing up the GM over.

 

Where did I "blow up"? I said it was a bad trade.

 

And why are you only questioning me when everyone else is saying the same thing? Did I bang your girl or something?

 

That is precisely it.

 

then you might want to get tested

[17 Seconds]

 

Where did I "blow up"? I said it was a bad trade.

 

And why are you only questioning me when everyone else is saying the same thing? Did I bang your girl or something?

 

I'm pretty sure he's confusing you with JeffH, who would still bash Hendry even if he brought home 4 straight World Series titles.

 

that guy cracks me up.

 

raven: are you really confusing me with that dude?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Pitchers currently in the system that aren't starters that I'd rather see on the mound than Kevin Gregg with the game on the line.

 

Marmol, Gooz, Samardzija, Cotts, Gaudin, Wuertz, Marshall(if he's not a starter)

 

THAT IS 7 GUYS

 

A FULL BULLPEN.

 

That's without even getting into whether Gregg is even better than Ceda right now.

 

Marmol and Marshall for sure.

 

No way I'd be sure about any of the others.

[abuck1220]

dude, you've been throwing like a four hour e-tantrum spread throughout three threads.

[TheRaven]

 

Where did I "blow up"? I said it was a bad trade.

 

And why are you only questioning me when everyone else is saying the same thing? Did I bang your girl or something?

 

I'm pretty sure he's confusing you with JeffH, who would still bash Hendry even if he brought home 4 straight World Series titles.

 

that guy cracks me up.

 

raven: are you really confusing me with that dude?

 

No, I am not confusing you with anyone.

 

It is clear, to me, where the conversation started and how it has continued. If it is not to you, then perhaps go back and read it again.

[17 Seconds]

Pitchers currently in the system that aren't starters that I'd rather see on the mound than Kevin Gregg with the game on the line.

 

Marmol, Gooz, Samardzija, Cotts, Gaudin, Wuertz, Marshall(if he's not a starter)

 

THAT IS 7 GUYS

 

A FULL BULLPEN.

 

That's without even getting into whether Gregg is even better than Ceda right now.

 

I just looked up Gregg's stats from the past two years, and I've confirmed that this post is completely insane

 

which of those guys is gregg significantly better than?

[nilodnayr]

It may sound that I think Gregg is garbage and I think Ceda is God, but I don't. Let me sum up my thoughts on the trade.

 

Gregg is decent. Hes fine. Hes OK. Hes not any noticeably better than most of our non-Marmol relievers. He has a decent K rate, but has a pretty big issue with control. Hes been able to hold it together and has experience closing (if thats worth anything).

 

Ceda is a decent prospect. Hes not great, or a sure thing, or about to come up and dominate. Hes a pretty good prospect (4 star, or B or whatever you want to call him) in a system that doesn't have many of those. Hes got the upside of Jenks/Marmol, and the downside of being a bust and never being able to maintain enough contol to help in the majors. BUT, hes shown signs of progress against advanced AA batters.

 

I understand the desire to get certainty in the bullpen (if there really is such a thing), but if Kevin Gregg is the guy you can get for a player with the upside of Ceda, then why do you make the trade?

[17 Seconds]

 

Where did I "blow up"? I said it was a bad trade.

 

And why are you only questioning me when everyone else is saying the same thing? Did I bang your girl or something?

 

I'm pretty sure he's confusing you with JeffH, who would still bash Hendry even if he brought home 4 straight World Series titles.

 

that guy cracks me up.

 

raven: are you really confusing me with that dude?

 

No, I am not confusing you with anyone.

 

It is clear, to me, where the conversation started and how it has continued. If it is not to you, then perhaps go back and read it again.

 

I don't have to go back through the thread to know that I never "blew up" at Hendry and certainly not more than the mjaority of the board did when learning about the trade.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Pitchers currently in the system that aren't starters that I'd rather see on the mound than Kevin Gregg with the game on the line.

 

Marmol, Gooz, Samardzija, Cotts, Gaudin, Wuertz, Marshall(if he's not a starter)

 

THAT IS 7 GUYS

 

A FULL BULLPEN.

 

That's without even getting into whether Gregg is even better than Ceda right now.

 

I just looked up Gregg's stats from the past two years, and I've confirmed that this post is completely insane

 

which of those guys is gregg significantly better than?

 

Cotts, Wuertz, Guzman, Samardzija, and Gaudin have been worse than Gregg the last two years.

[Soul]

I understand the desire to get certainty in the bullpen (if there really is such a thing), but if Kevin Gregg is the guy you can get for a player with the upside of Ceda, then why do you make the trade?

 

A solid question. What a dumb trade.

[17 Seconds]

Pitchers currently in the system that aren't starters that I'd rather see on the mound than Kevin Gregg with the game on the line.

 

Marmol, Gooz, Samardzija, Cotts, Gaudin, Wuertz, Marshall(if he's not a starter)

 

THAT IS 7 GUYS

 

A FULL BULLPEN.

 

That's without even getting into whether Gregg is even better than Ceda right now.

I just looked up Gregg's stats from the past two years, and I've confirmed that this post is completely insane

 

which of those guys is gregg significantly better than?

 

Cotts, Wuertz, Guzman, Samardzija, and Gaudin have been worse than Gregg the last two years.

 

Yes but not significantly enough to say it's "insane" to choose any of those guys over gregg for an inning. Plus I was going by last year's performance.