Cubs acquire Kevin Gregg for Jose Ceda

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Cotts, Wuertz, Guzman, Samardzija, and Gaudin have been worse than Gregg the last two years.

 

Yes but not significantly enough to say it's "insane" to choose any of those guys over gregg for an inning. Plus I was going by last year's performance.

 

It's relatively crazy to say that you'd for sure prefer 5 different guys who are inferior pitchers. It's not like Gregg gets by on Borowski-stuff either to make you prefer others in that fashion either.

[17 Seconds]

Cotts, Wuertz, Guzman, Samardzija, and Gaudin have been worse than Gregg the last two years.

 

Yes but not significantly enough to say it's "insane" to choose any of those guys over gregg for an inning. Plus I was going by last year's performance.

 

It's relatively crazy to say that you'd for sure prefer 5 different guys who are inferior pitchers. It's not like Gregg gets by on Borowski-stuff either to make you prefer others in that fashion either.

 

Those guys aren't all "inferior" to gregg.

 

I'm not agreeing with the guy anyways, I'm just saying I don't think what he said was "insane"

[SouthSideRyan]

Pitchers currently in the system that aren't starters that I'd rather see on the mound than Kevin Gregg with the game on the line.

 

Marmol, Gooz, Samardzija, Cotts, Gaudin, Wuertz, Marshall(if he's not a starter)

 

THAT IS 7 GUYS

 

A FULL BULLPEN.

 

That's without even getting into whether Gregg is even better than Ceda right now.

 

I just looked up Gregg's stats from the past two years, and I've confirmed that this post is completely insane

 

which of those guys is gregg significantly better than?

 

Cotts, Wuertz, Guzman, Samardzija, and Gaudin have been worse than Gregg the last two years.

 

Each of which have their own excuses.(Well not really Cotts, but he's kind of an enigma to me)

 

Wuertz killed Lou's dog and ran over Hendry's daughter so he's never been given consistent usage in the pen.

 

Gooz hasn't been healthy for more than 2 consecutive days until last season.

 

Samardzija decided to start trying mid-way through last season.

 

Gaudin was starting.

 

I admit these are far from locks for outproducing, just my personal opinion. When you throw in the AAA train of Ascanio, Hart, Atkins, Ceda(if he was here) I don't think it's a stretch to say this is not a 5M improvement.

[David]

Let's have some fun with numbers!

 

Kevin Gregg in 2008

 

BB/9: 4.85

K/9: 7.60

HR/9: 0.39

H/9: 6.68

 

Carlos Marmol in 2008

 

BB/9: 4.23

K/9: 11.75

HR/9: 1.03

H/9: 4.12

 

Kerry Wood in 2008

 

BB/9: 2.44

K/9: 11.40

HR/9: 0.41

H/9: 7.33

 

Bob Howry in 2008

 

BB/9: 1.66

K/9: 7.51

HR/9: 1.66

H/9: 11.42

 

I'm comparing Gregg to those three because they were the three most used relievers by the Cubs last season. While these numbers are not perfect evaluators (H/9 especially), they provide a helpful baseline that supplements a lot of what we saw over the course of last season. For example, it should surprise no one that Wood and Marmol struck out batters at an unholy rate last season.

 

Gregg's best attribute is the ability to keep the ball in the park. He also doesn't give up a whole lot of hits. However, he has a worse problem with walks than Marmol. Unlike Marmol, he doesn't strike guys out. Essentially, I'm seeing a guy who gets himself into jams by giving up a bunch of walks, but gets out of them through putting the ball into play rather than through striking guys out. That's a bit worrying.

 

On the bright side, he managed to survive doing that with a horrible defense behind him, and he's moving to a good one.

 

On the negative side, everything else.

 

His K numbers are like Howry. And he's coming to Chicago. You know, to pitch like Howry.

 

Yea, no...

 

And why are we only looking at 2008 numbers?

[SpongeWorthy]

I haven't read the thread...is it too late to point oout that you should never trust anyone with two first names?

[mul21]

Let's have some fun with numbers!

 

Kevin Gregg in 2008

 

BB/9: 4.85

K/9: 7.60

HR/9: 0.39

H/9: 6.68

 

Carlos Marmol in 2008

 

BB/9: 4.23

K/9: 11.75

HR/9: 1.03

H/9: 4.12

 

Kerry Wood in 2008

 

BB/9: 2.44

K/9: 11.40

HR/9: 0.41

H/9: 7.33

 

Bob Howry in 2008

 

BB/9: 1.66

K/9: 7.51

HR/9: 1.66

H/9: 11.42

 

I'm comparing Gregg to those three because they were the three most used relievers by the Cubs last season. While these numbers are not perfect evaluators (H/9 especially), they provide a helpful baseline that supplements a lot of what we saw over the course of last season. For example, it should surprise no one that Wood and Marmol struck out batters at an unholy rate last season.

 

Gregg's best attribute is the ability to keep the ball in the park. He also doesn't give up a whole lot of hits. However, he has a worse problem with walks than Marmol. Unlike Marmol, he doesn't strike guys out. Essentially, I'm seeing a guy who gets himself into jams by giving up a bunch of walks, but gets out of them through putting the ball into play rather than through striking guys out. That's a bit worrying.

 

On the bright side, he managed to survive doing that with a horrible defense behind him, and he's moving to a good one.

 

On the negative side, everything else.

 

His K numbers are like Howry. And he's coming to Chicago. You know, to pitch like Howry.

 

Yea, no...

 

And why are we only looking at 2008 numbers?

 

Especially when somebody already showed that his numbers were skewed pretty badly by an approximately 2 week stretch where he forgot where home plate was and when he did find it he got crushed.

[Derwood]

if you were managing a Cubs game and it was a one-run lead in the 8th or 9th and you decided to bring Cotts, Wuertz, Guzman or Gaudin in to save it over Gregg, i'd call you insane

[Soul]

Let's have some fun with numbers!

 

Kevin Gregg in 2008

 

BB/9: 4.85

K/9: 7.60

HR/9: 0.39

H/9: 6.68

 

Carlos Marmol in 2008

 

BB/9: 4.23

K/9: 11.75

HR/9: 1.03

H/9: 4.12

 

Kerry Wood in 2008

 

BB/9: 2.44

K/9: 11.40

HR/9: 0.41

H/9: 7.33

 

Bob Howry in 2008

 

BB/9: 1.66

K/9: 7.51

HR/9: 1.66

H/9: 11.42

 

I'm comparing Gregg to those three because they were the three most used relievers by the Cubs last season. While these numbers are not perfect evaluators (H/9 especially), they provide a helpful baseline that supplements a lot of what we saw over the course of last season. For example, it should surprise no one that Wood and Marmol struck out batters at an unholy rate last season.

 

Gregg's best attribute is the ability to keep the ball in the park. He also doesn't give up a whole lot of hits. However, he has a worse problem with walks than Marmol. Unlike Marmol, he doesn't strike guys out. Essentially, I'm seeing a guy who gets himself into jams by giving up a bunch of walks, but gets out of them through putting the ball into play rather than through striking guys out. That's a bit worrying.

 

On the bright side, he managed to survive doing that with a horrible defense behind him, and he's moving to a good one.

 

On the negative side, everything else.

 

His K numbers are like Howry. And he's coming to Chicago. You know, to pitch like Howry.

 

Yea, no...

 

And why are we only looking at 2008 numbers?

 

Especially when somebody already showed that his numbers were skewed pretty badly by an approximately 2 week stretch where he forgot where home plate was and when he did find it he got crushed.

 

His prior numbers don't exactly scream "Marmol mach 2" to me.

 

What does it even matter? He's supposedly a 1 year rental that cost us a solid prospect.

[UMFan83]

I haven't read the thread...is it too late to point oout that you should never trust anyone with two first names?

 

Are you talking about Derrek Lee or Sean Marshall?

[Outshined_One]

Let's have some fun with numbers!

 

Kevin Gregg in 2008

 

BB/9: 4.85

K/9: 7.60

HR/9: 0.39

H/9: 6.68

 

Carlos Marmol in 2008

 

BB/9: 4.23

K/9: 11.75

HR/9: 1.03

H/9: 4.12

 

Kerry Wood in 2008

 

BB/9: 2.44

K/9: 11.40

HR/9: 0.41

H/9: 7.33

 

Bob Howry in 2008

 

BB/9: 1.66

K/9: 7.51

HR/9: 1.66

H/9: 11.42

 

I'm comparing Gregg to those three because they were the three most used relievers by the Cubs last season. While these numbers are not perfect evaluators (H/9 especially), they provide a helpful baseline that supplements a lot of what we saw over the course of last season. For example, it should surprise no one that Wood and Marmol struck out batters at an unholy rate last season.

 

Gregg's best attribute is the ability to keep the ball in the park. He also doesn't give up a whole lot of hits. However, he has a worse problem with walks than Marmol. Unlike Marmol, he doesn't strike guys out. Essentially, I'm seeing a guy who gets himself into jams by giving up a bunch of walks, but gets out of them through putting the ball into play rather than through striking guys out. That's a bit worrying.

 

On the bright side, he managed to survive doing that with a horrible defense behind him, and he's moving to a good one.

 

On the negative side, everything else.

 

His K numbers are like Howry. And he's coming to Chicago. You know, to pitch like Howry.

 

Yea, no...

 

And why are we only looking at 2008 numbers?

 

Especially when somebody already showed that his numbers were skewed pretty badly by an approximately 2 week stretch where he forgot where home plate was and when he did find it he got crushed.

 

So we should discount the worst two week stretches of the other three pitchers?

 

I was providing a basic comparison between all of those pitchers. Nothing too in-depth, but enough to give us a picture of how each performed in 2008.

[David]

His prior numbers don't exactly scream "Marmol mach 2" to me.

 

What does it even matter? He's supposedly a 1 year rental that cost us a solid prospect.

 

Because being upset over what was given up to acquire him (with reason or not) doesn't justify totally undervaluing him and pretending that he's horrible?

Edited November 13, 2008 by David

[SpongeWorthy]

At least those roll off the tongue.

 

Kevin Gregg just sounds like a real putz.

[Soul]

Because being upset over what was given up to acquire him (with reason or not) doesn't justify totally undervaluing him and pretending that he's horrible?

 

Alright fine. I hope he does great.

[cubsfan26]

Let's have some fun with numbers!

 

Kevin Gregg in 2008

 

BB/9: 4.85

K/9: 7.60

HR/9: 0.39

H/9: 6.68

 

Carlos Marmol in 2008

 

BB/9: 4.23

K/9: 11.75

HR/9: 1.03

H/9: 4.12

 

Kerry Wood in 2008

 

BB/9: 2.44

K/9: 11.40

HR/9: 0.41

H/9: 7.33

 

Bob Howry in 2008

 

BB/9: 1.66

K/9: 7.51

HR/9: 1.66

H/9: 11.42

 

I'm comparing Gregg to those three because they were the three most used relievers by the Cubs last season. While these numbers are not perfect evaluators (H/9 especially), they provide a helpful baseline that supplements a lot of what we saw over the course of last season. For example, it should surprise no one that Wood and Marmol struck out batters at an unholy rate last season.

 

Gregg's best attribute is the ability to keep the ball in the park. He also doesn't give up a whole lot of hits. However, he has a worse problem with walks than Marmol. Unlike Marmol, he doesn't strike guys out. Essentially, I'm seeing a guy who gets himself into jams by giving up a bunch of walks, but gets out of them through putting the ball into play rather than through striking guys out. That's a bit worrying.

 

On the bright side, he managed to survive doing that with a horrible defense behind him, and he's moving to a good one.

 

On the negative side, everything else.

 

His K numbers are like Howry. And he's coming to Chicago. You know, to pitch like Howry.

 

Yea, no...

 

And why are we only looking at 2008 numbers?

 

Especially when somebody already showed that his numbers were skewed pretty badly by an approximately 2 week stretch where he forgot where home plate was and when he did find it he got crushed.

 

So we should discount the worst two week stretches of the other three pitchers?

 

I was providing a basic comparison between all of those pitchers. Nothing too in-depth, but enough to give us a picture of how each performed in 2008.

 

 

No but there's a good chance he was pitching hurt during that two week stretch that caused him to pitch so poorly.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Each of which have their own excuses.(Well not really Cotts, but he's kind of an enigma to me)

 

Wuertz killed Lou's dog and ran over Hendry's daughter so he's never been given consistent usage in the pen.

 

Gooz hasn't been healthy for more than 2 consecutive days until last season.

 

Samardzija decided to start trying mid-way through last season.

 

Gaudin was starting.

 

I admit these are far from locks for outproducing, just my personal opinion. When you throw in the AAA train of Ascanio, Hart, Atkins, Ceda(if he was here) I don't think it's a stretch to say this is not a 5M improvement.

 

If we're giving people the benefit of the doubt, then here's Gregg last year through 8/14, after which he fell apart for 2 weeks and was DLed.

 

55 IP, .188/.297/.228/.525 against, 45/28 K/BB, 1 HR, 1.19 WHIP

 

Obviously the walks are still an issue, but it's still stellar production. Also, his stuff as a sinkerballer has kept him from an unfavorable home/road split, and it also means that getting away from the horrific infield D in Florida should stand to help him too.

[Outshined_One]

No but there's a good chance he was pitching hurt during that two week stretch that caused him to pitch so poorly.

 

Unfortunately, no one is ever fully healthy over the course of a season. Guys go through stretches with pulled muscles, illness, and all sorts of other physical problems which would hinder their performances. I'm unwilling to write off a guy's performance over the course of a year due to injury unless it turns out he was hiding some major injury that would require surgery or a lot of time off in order to heal.

[nolanwood]

Puke. :banghead:

 

I would be more accepting of this trade if Hendry wasn't replacing Woody with Gregg - that's absurd.

 

Now let's throw a bunch of $$ and 4 years to a SP who lowered his era by an entire point for one season at the age of 32. What a joke. How much are we paying Marquis this year - 10mil?

:scratch:

[CubColtPacer]

No but there's a good chance he was pitching hurt during that two week stretch that caused him to pitch so poorly.

 

Unfortunately, no one is ever fully healthy over the course of a season. Guys go through stretches with pulled muscles, illness, and all sorts of other physical problems which would hinder their performances. I'm unwilling to write off a guy's performance over the course of a year due to injury unless it turns out he was hiding some major injury that would require surgery or a lot of time off in order to heal.

 

Gregg did have knee surgery after the season to correct the problem. He should be fine for spring training and it wasn't like his ACL was falling off or anything, but it wasn't a minor injury either..considering he's not even supposed to even get back on a mound for a couple of months.

[Rob]

Pitchers currently in the system that aren't starters that I'd rather see on the mound than Kevin Gregg with the game on the line.

 

Marmol, Gooz, Samardzija, Cotts, Gaudin, Wuertz, Marshall(if he's not a starter)

 

THAT IS 7 GUYS

 

A FULL BULLPEN.

 

That's without even getting into whether Gregg is even better than Ceda right now.

 

They're non-tendering Wuertz.

[Rob]

Also important to note... Gregg needs to be our closer to potentially net us 2 draft picks. Sure he may still qualify as a Type A if he doesn't close, but no other team will be willing to sign a non-closing reliever that will cost them a first or second round draft pick.

[David]

Gregg is fine as a closer. And salary wise, he's pretty cheap. He's probably a better option than Dempster was and the closer role is overrated anyway.

 

Hopefully, we won't have that many save opportunities anyway next year just like this year.

 

We can argue till the cows come home as to whether or not Ceda really had much more value than this. I'm guessing that he could've gotten us a LITTLE more, but I am doubtful that it was much more. The argument about what kind of pitcher Gregg is and how he can contribute to our team should be a separate one, though, IMO.

 

 

I just hope Marmol is kept in the setup role and Gregg closes.

[Elrhino]

I agree, the benefit of acquiring the "proven closer" is it keeps Marmol and Shark in more valuable positions.

[mikeyt34]

I still don't think Woody is going anywhere, he'll resign with the Cubs at below market value, just to stay in Chicago. Kevin Gregg is going to take over Howry's role as a set up man, nothing more. I've seen Ceda pitch on a few occasions at Spring Training last year, he was nothing special in my opinion, and I think the Cubs felt he was still a couple of years away from contributing, if ever. I'm always willing to get an established veteran over a the "potential" of some kid. Maybe not the best deal for Ceda's potential, but I see what Hendry is thinking.

[mhuber92211]

So Michael Barrett = Keving Gregg

[Soul]

Gregg is fine as a closer. And salary wise, he's pretty cheap. He's probably a better option than Dempster was and the closer role is overrated anyway.

 

Hopefully, we won't have that many save opportunities anyway next year just like this year.

 

We can argue till the cows come home as to whether or not Ceda really had much more value than this. I'm guessing that he could've gotten us a LITTLE more, but I am doubtful that it was much more. The argument about what kind of pitcher Gregg is and how he can contribute to our team should be a separate one, though, IMO.

 

 

I just hope Marmol is kept in the setup role and Gregg closes.

 

I agree that would be better.