Blow the chokers out of town

[Mugged By Fluffy]

The Cardinals have been to the playoffs 7 times since 1990. They've won at least two playoff games in every single appearance.

 

The Cubs have been four times, and been swept three.

 

This isn't about the crapshoot, it's about the sheer impressiveness of the losing.

 

I agree. A crapshoot means two good teams play hard head to head, and any one thing can happen over the course of a series that helps or hurts a team.

 

There was no crapshoot about this. From game one on, the Cubs truly blew it in a myriad of ways.

[erik316wttn]

i'm glad we have this thread. good to keep all the overreaction in one place

 

Yeah. The team with the best record in our lifetimes just got embarrassed in the playoffs. Nobody is allowed to be pissed!

[GhostRunner]

Love it or hate it, this song just really seems to fit this time of year (x3) ...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnOvGGGf6qA

[JGalt73]

It's hard to know where to post anything with sheer volume of emotions (and threads) that we are all feeling...

 

I'm going with BP's Joe Sheehan and a number of others here with this thought....

 

Whatever frustration the Cubs, their management, or their fan base may feel at this moment, what they cannot and should not do is lose sight of the fact that the 2008 Cubs were a very good baseball team. Their was no missing link, no fatal flaw, nothing in the construction that portended a short stay in the postseason. They caught a bad matchup and had a three-game losing streak at the wrong time, and the rules of the game don't allow for that. This was the Cubs' fifth three-game losing streak of the season; these things happen even to [97]-win teams. That they lost three in row, to a quality team, is just baseball. That they did so from October 1 through October 4 unfortunately means that they don't get to play on October 5. None of that, however, makes the 2008 Cubs less than what they were: the best team in the NL for six months. It just means they won't win a championship.

 

Post-season baseball is cool and cruel, but it doesn't mean everything, not in a sport that needs six months to figure out who the best teams are, and even then doesn't always get it right. The Cubs don't need to tear anything down, and the biggest challenge over the next eight weeks will be to not let the sense of disappointment drive the decisions they make. If they let three losses drown out [97] wins, well, that's how you end up without the opportunity to ever make that mistake again.

[Guest]

Frank McCourt is a cheapskate of the highest order.

 

I agree that he was a cheapskate when he first bought the team, but that's because the purchase of the team was a tremendous burden. He has since shown that he is willing to spend some money. They overspent for Andruw Jones and Juan Pierre, and they signed Hiroki Kuroda, Furcal and Jason Schmidt, then also traded for Manny (not sure how much LA was on the hook for with that deal).

 

The investments have been rather curious, but he has started to spend.

 

I just don't see them keeping both. I really don't.

 

Agreed. The consensus is one of them will go and that the Dodgers can't let Manny walk after the last few months.

 

Apparently McCourt wasn't pleased with the Jones and Schmidt contracts and didn't want to spend big too often if the success rate wasn't that great. But on the flip side, you don't know what Manny's success and playoff revenue will do to them.

[JeffH]

No offense to him personally, but Joe Sheehan is a dope.

[Guest]

It's hard to know where to post anything with sheer volume of emotions (and threads) that we are all feeling...

 

I'm going with BP's Joe Sheehan and a number of others here with this thought....

 

Whatever frustration the Cubs, their management, or their fan base may feel at this moment, what they cannot and should not do is lose sight of the fact that the 2008 Cubs were a very good baseball team. Their was no missing link, no fatal flaw, nothing in the construction that portended a short stay in the postseason. They caught a bad matchup and had a three-game losing streak at the wrong time, and the rules of the game don't allow for that. This was the Cubs' fifth three-game losing streak of the season; these things happen even to [97]-win teams. That they lost three in row, to a quality team, is just baseball. That they did so from October 1 through October 4 unfortunately means that they don't get to play on October 5. None of that, however, makes the 2008 Cubs less than what they were: the best team in the NL for six months. It just means they won't win a championship.

 

Post-season baseball is cool and cruel, but it doesn't mean everything, not in a sport that needs six months to figure out who the best teams are, and even then doesn't always get it right. The Cubs don't need to tear anything down, and the biggest challenge over the next eight weeks will be to not let the sense of disappointment drive the decisions they make. If they let three losses drown out [97] wins, well, that's how you end up without the opportunity to ever make that mistake again.

 

It's a shame that this type of stuff will be buried by the national media. The last few sentences are very true.

[SouthSideRyan]

Frank McCourt is a cheapskate of the highest order.

 

I agree that he was a cheapskate when he first bought the team, but that's because the purchase of the team was a tremendous burden. He has since shown that he is willing to spend some money. They overspent for Andruw Jones and Juan Pierre, and they signed Hiroki Kuroda, Furcal and Jason Schmidt, then also traded for Manny (not sure how much LA was on the hook for with that deal).

 

The investments have been rather curious, but he has started to spend.

 

LA is paying Manny nothing. It was the only way they could get the deal done. McCourt parking lot entrepeneurship isn't quite enough for him to afford Manny. It's a joke that this guy was given a baseball team.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Joe Sheehan is absolutely right.

 

Other than finding a left-handed bat to make them slightly less vulnerable to these bad matchups, and doing a whole lot of praying over the shoulders of Zambrano and Harden, the Cubs don't need to do much of anything.

[JeffH]

Joe Sheehan is absolutely right.

 

Other than finding a left-handed bat to make them slightly less vulnerable to these bad matchups, and doing a whole lot of praying over the shoulders of Zambrano and Harden, the Cubs don't need to do much of anything.

 

Please be kidding.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Joe Sheehan is absolutely right.

 

Other than finding a left-handed bat to make them slightly less vulnerable to these bad matchups, and doing a whole lot of praying over the shoulders of Zambrano and Harden, the Cubs don't need to do much of anything.

 

Please be kidding.

 

What would you have them do?

[SouthSideRyan]

Joe Sheehan is absolutely right.

 

Other than finding a left-handed bat to make them slightly less vulnerable to these bad matchups, and doing a whole lot of praying over the shoulders of Zambrano and Harden, the Cubs don't need to do much of anything.

 

Please be kidding.

 

What would you have them do?

 

It doesn't matter what they do, Jeff will be back calling them terrible all season long and brimming with glee at every misstep along the way.

[JeffH]

Joe Sheehan is absolutely right.

 

Other than finding a left-handed bat to make them slightly less vulnerable to these bad matchups, and doing a whole lot of praying over the shoulders of Zambrano and Harden, the Cubs don't need to do much of anything.

 

Please be kidding.

 

What would you have them do?

 

I don't know, but to say that they don't need to do much of anything is just plain wrong.

 

Most of the time, our LF is a horrible player who offers nothing to help his team win. Admittedly, the other 10% of the time, he's one of the best players in baseball. Sadly, he is untradeable.

 

CF needs to be addressed somehow.

 

Our primary RF hits like a mediocre AAA backup catcher. Again, untradeable.

 

A legitimate major league SS would be nice.

 

Our 1B is a well below average hitter for his position and is one of the worst #3 hitters in baseball.

 

Starting pitching is in pretty good shape, assuming everyone is healthy.

 

The bullpen is a disaster.

[JeffH]

What really needs to happen is for Hendry and his team to go.

 

This organization needs to focus on establishing a world-class amateur player procurement and development organization.

 

Hendry hasn't shown that he can do that.

 

Boston produces Hanley Ramirez, Jon Lester, Jacoby Ellsbury, Kevin Youkilis, Dustin Pedroia, etc.

 

We produce Carlos Marmol, Geovany Soto, Ryan Theriot, Rich Hill, Sean Gallagher, Sean Marshall, Jeff Samardzija, etc.

 

Marmol and Soto are quite good. The rest of them are role players, at best. Role players have value, of course, but they don't "make a difference".

 

We can go only so far signing free agents and hoping to trade with economically distressed teams. Having our farm system produce a bunch of role players isn't going to cut it.

 

There's no reason the Chicago Cubs shouldn't be one of the very best organizations in baseball.

 

We are anything but.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Most of the time, our LF is a horrible player who offers nothing to help his team win. Admittedly, the other 10% of the time, he's one of the best players in baseball. Sadly, he is untradeable.

 

You are right that he is untradeable, so no point in discussing how wrong you are on the other stuff.

 

CF needs to be addressed somehow.

 

That'd be where we somehow find another lefty bat. Pie would be nice for defense, but we'll see what the offseason brings.

 

Our primary RF hits like a mediocre AAA backup catcher. Again, untradeable.

 

Stuck with him.

 

A legitimate major league SS would be nice.

 

Probably stuck with him, not a ton of better options out there. Someone with an arm would be nice.

 

Our 1B is a well below average hitter for his position and is one of the worst #3 hitters in baseball.

 

Stuck with him.

 

Starting pitching is in pretty good shape, assuming everyone is healthy.

 

An incredible assumption that I find very unlikely. Shoulder problems like Harden and Zambrano are having don't just go away.

 

The bullpen is a disaster.

 

Most bullpens are. They've got a couple quality arms, that's plenty in most games. If you need your bullpen in the sixth, you probably aren't in good shape anyways.

[JeffH]

Most of the time, our LF is a horrible player who offers nothing to help his team win. Admittedly, the other 10% of the time, he's one of the best players in baseball. Sadly, he is untradeable.

 

You are right that he is untradeable, so no point in discussing how wrong you are on the other stuff.

 

CF needs to be addressed somehow.

 

That'd be where we somehow find another lefty bat. Pie would be nice for defense, but we'll see what the offseason brings.

 

Our primary RF hits like a mediocre AAA backup catcher. Again, untradeable.

 

Stuck with him.

 

A legitimate major league SS would be nice.

 

Probably stuck with him, not a ton of better options out there. Someone with an arm would be nice.

 

Our 1B is a well below average hitter for his position and is one of the worst #3 hitters in baseball.

 

Stuck with him.

 

Starting pitching is in pretty good shape, assuming everyone is healthy.

 

An incredible assumption that I find very unlikely. Shoulder problems like Harden and Zambrano are having don't just go away.

 

The bullpen is a disaster.

 

Most bullpens are. They've got a couple quality arms, that's plenty in most games. If you need your bullpen in the sixth, you probably aren't in good shape anyways.

 

This is a good post. Maybe we're dealing in semantics. I agree that there's probably not much they can do, largely due to Hendry's remarkable incompetence. That doesn't mean that they don't NEED to do something.

Edited October 5, 2008 by JeffH

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Every team has weaknesses that they'd like to address.

 

If the pitching health holds up, the Cubs will be a playoff team again next year, with or without the Hendry-induced flaws.

[Rob]

I understand ranting... but let's not pretend there's any logic behind saying "blow the chokers out of town"

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I understand ranting... but let's not pretend there's any logic behind saying "blow the chokers out of town"

 

Emotional utility.

 

If the Cubs bring back the exact same team next season, there's a 20% chance they win the NL pennant and we're all very happy, an an 80% chance they fail and we're all utterly disgusted at seeing a team with the same core fail three years in a row.

 

If they blow it up and replace everyone, there's a 10% chance they win the NL pennant and we're all very happy, and there's an 90% chance they fail but it at least feels exciting and new.

 

The average happiness fans get from the second scenario is higher, though each fans' mileage may vary on the percentages and the levels of happiness each scenario brings.

[mdwilla]

It's not fair that these guys every year have to carry the weight of a 100 years of losing on there shoulders but it's a very true reality the Cubs brass has to realize and it will continue to get worse. You can't just tinker with this team and send back out there, there mentally beat.

[hardcorecubfan]

QUESTION

 

If we had made it to game four would you bench Soriano?

 

If we take performance as a standard then Fukudome is had a better OBP than Sori, though I understand Fuku was bad the whole summer.

[Guest]

What really needs to happen is for Hendry and his team to go.

 

This organization needs to focus on establishing a world-class amateur player procurement and development organization.

 

Hendry hasn't shown that he can do that.

 

Boston produces Hanley Ramirez, Jon Lester, Jacoby Ellsbury, Kevin Youkilis, Dustin Pedroia, etc.

 

We produce Carlos Marmol, Geovany Soto, Ryan Theriot, Rich Hill, Sean Gallagher, Sean Marshall, Jeff Samardzija, etc.

 

Marmol and Soto are quite good. The rest of them are role players, at best. Role players have value, of course, but they don't "make a difference".

 

We can go only so far signing free agents and hoping to trade with economically distressed teams. Having our farm system produce a bunch of role players isn't going to cut it.

 

There's no reason the Chicago Cubs shouldn't be one of the very best organizations in baseball.

 

We are anything but.

 

I'm extremely jealous of the Red Sox, they are the best run team in baseball.

[Guest]

QUESTION

 

If we had made it to game four would you bench Soriano?

 

If we take performance as a standard then Fukudome is had a better OBP than Sori, though I understand Fuku was bad the whole summer.

 

ANSWER

 

No.

[Sammy Sofa]

BLOW THE CHOKERS.

 

CHOKE THE BLOWERS.

 

YEEEEEEEE-HAW!!!

[RedFlash]

I'm extremely jealous of the Red Sox, they are the best run team in baseball.

 

NOW they are...Does anybody remember when Boston (or Duquette) ran off players like Nomar, Mo Vaughn and Roger Clemens? When an organization is hiring PI's to get dirt on their players (in the case of Vaughn, I believe) you're not a good org. Winning 2 championships changes one's POV of a team. The Cubs team are a good run team (not great, nothing special) in baseball, it just they haven't gotten their monkey off their backs.