Bulls get the #1 pick! 2008 NBA Draft Discussion

[nji232]

I feel like people really underrate Beasley because he isn't as well known in the Chicago/Big 10 area. Beasley is athletic, maybe not as much as Rose, but its not like he is Tyler Hansbrough out there. Beasley is an amazing rebounder, the guy thinks every single rebound is his, and he gets them. Unlike Durant who was really skinny in college and still is, Beasley has a legit NBA body to play the 4. People complain about his height, but remember Elton Brand is listed at 6-8, more like 6-7 and still gets 20-10 every year that he is healthy. Beasley is bigger and more athletic than Brand, and a better scorer as well. Since Jordan left the league every team that has one the championship has had an all star big man. Beasley can be that guy. Put him with Noah inside and the Bulls will get almost every rebound and have great energy. Beasley can run the court, he hustles, and his off the court issues are non-existant (Rick Morrisey). Rose may be one of the best PGs to come out in a long time, but Beasley gives the Bulls the best chance to win this year. Not to mention Beasley single-handedly beat the national champions once, and dropped 40 on them in their house, while he played the entire game in foul trouble. He played the whole Big-12 season double and triple teamed, put some decent teammates around him and he will be able to score one-on-one against almost anybody in the league.

[jersey cubs fan]

Beasley can run the court, he hustles, and his off the court issues are non-existant (Rick Morrisey).

 

I read something that said he was kicked out of a bunch of schools, yet only committed "minor" indiscretions like slashing car tires, graffiti and putting a dead rat on a teachers desk.

 

Okay, so he didn't rape anybody, good for him, but that's some serious signs of one screwed up prick.

[Guest]

I feel like people really underrate Beasley because he isn't as well known in the Chicago/Big 10 area. Beasley is athletic, maybe not as much as Rose, but its not like he is Tyler Hansbrough out there. Beasley is an amazing rebounder, the guy thinks every single rebound is his, and he gets them. Unlike Durant who was really skinny in college and still is, Beasley has a legit NBA body to play the 4. People complain about his height, but remember Elton Brand is listed at 6-8, more like 6-7 and still gets 20-10 every year that he is healthy. Beasley is bigger and more athletic than Brand, and a better scorer as well. Since Jordan left the league every team that has one the championship has had an all star big man. Beasley can be that guy. Put him with Noah inside and the Bulls will get almost every rebound and have great energy. Beasley can run the court, he hustles, and his off the court issues are non-existant (Rick Morrisey). Rose may be one of the best PGs to come out in a long time, but Beasley gives the Bulls the best chance to win this year. Not to mention Beasley single-handedly beat the national champions once, and dropped 40 on them in their house, while he played the entire game in foul trouble. He played the whole Big-12 season double and triple teamed, put some decent teammates around him and he will be able to score one-on-one against almost anybody in the league.

 

Beasley only gives the Bulls a better chance to win this year if you assume no other transactions are made if Rose is drafted (i.e. Hinrich and two of Hughes/Gordon/Hinrich come off the bench and aren't moved for an inside presence).

 

I've seen Beasley play quite a bit and he's clearly a top-2 prospect in this year's draft. There's no denying his talent. I feel Rose will have a far better impact on the Bulls and will allow for many more options to improve the team too. And I don't care that Rose is from Chicago, it has no bearing on my thought process.

[nji232]

Beasley can run the court, he hustles, and his off the court issues are non-existant (Rick Morrisey).

 

I read something that said he was kicked out of a bunch of schools, yet only committed "minor" indiscretions like slashing car tires, graffiti and putting a dead rat on a teachers desk.

 

Okay, so he didn't rape anybody, good for him, but that's some serious signs of one screwed up prick.

 

He didn't get in trouble once at K-State. Obviously that is much easier than staying out of trouble in a city like Chicago. Screwed up prick? He was a teenager, and putting a dead rat on a desk doesn't hurt anybody. The vandalism was signing his name on things like water fountains and the window of a teachers car. Are those things acceptable probably not, but its just a kid being a kid. I would love to see a link to the slashing a tire thing, bc I have never heard that. Otherwise he was just a kid having a little fun, and people overreacting about it because he is a basketball player.

 

Rose isn't exactly Mr. Perfect either. As far as behavior goes I haven't heard anything bad about him that is incredibly concerning, but money in your hometown can be problem. Not to mention the guy admitted his diet consisted of gummy bears, honey buns, and sour straws. Not exactly something that makes you feel good about a guy staying in shape for an entire NBA season.

[Outshined_One]

He didn't get in trouble once at K-State. Obviously that is much easier than staying out of trouble in a city like Chicago. Screwed up prick? He was a teenager, and putting a dead rat on a desk doesn't hurt anybody. The vandalism was signing his name on things like water fountains and the window of a teachers car. Are those things acceptable probably not, but its just a kid being a kid. I would love to see a link to the slashing a tire thing, bc I have never heard that. Otherwise he was just a kid having a little fun, and people overreacting about it because he is a basketball player.

 

That can easily be construed as a death threat, especially when done to a teacher.

[Guest]

Beasley is a better rebounder than Durant, in college he did it at a better rate, and he should continue to do so since he plays closer to the basket offensively and is much more active on the offensive glass.

 

And the fact that he weighs more than five pounds and can bench press more than 15 pounds.

[jaydee]

Beasley can run the court, he hustles, and his off the court issues are non-existant (Rick Morrisey).

 

I read something that said he was kicked out of a bunch of schools, yet only committed "minor" indiscretions like slashing car tires, graffiti and putting a dead rat on a teachers desk.

 

Okay, so he didn't rape anybody, good for him, but that's some serious signs of one screwed up prick.

 

He didn't get in trouble once at K-State. Obviously that is much easier than staying out of trouble in a city like Chicago. Screwed up prick? He was a teenager, and putting a dead rat on a desk doesn't hurt anybody. The vandalism was signing his name on things like water fountains and the window of a teachers car. Are those things acceptable probably not, but its just a kid being a kid. I would love to see a link to the slashing a tire thing, bc I have never heard that. Otherwise he was just a kid having a little fun, and people overreacting about it because he is a basketball player.

 

Rose isn't exactly Mr. Perfect either. As far as behavior goes I haven't heard anything bad about him that is incredibly concerning, but money in your hometown can be problem. Not to mention the guy admitted his diet consisted of gummy bears, honey buns, and sour straws. Not exactly something that makes you feel good about a guy staying in shape for an entire NBA season.

 

What has Rose ever done???? And not eating healthy is not a behavioral problem........

[Soul]

That Rose has a sweet tooth should have no bearing on anything. Players have all kinds of quirks. I'll bet many of them are still tokin' a fair amount. Many good players have admitted to such, yet still performed at a high level.

 

I don't see any of that as a problem like off-the-court crime is.

 

I'd also want to know -- for obvious reasons -- that the guy I draft #1 isn't going to buy a hot rod and play "I'm cool I can go 90 MPH into a tree" one night.

[Guest]

Yes, Derrick Rose has a sweet tooth but he doesn't look like Tractor Traylor here. You're really trying to find flaws when you question his eating habits (it's an issue if you're questioning someone like Big Baby or Kevin Love).

[Magnetic Curses]

putting a dead rat on your teacher's desk is hilarious, though i prefer leaving a box of flies on their doorstep.

 

ps- maybe the teacher narced out his backwoods whiskey still and he wanted to scare him.

[Soul]

Here's how this should go.

 

We draft Rose.

 

We create a trade package and acquire another great player to give us that 1 2 punch.

 

We start winning lots of games.

 

We start winning championships.

 

People start getting really happy around here.

 

 

 

There. Why not this for a change?

[SpongeWorthy]

Heh, didn't Jordan eat a 22 oz. porterhouse and a baked potato before every game? I think Rose will be fine.

 

I watched a lot of Beasley this past season and while I think he'll get his rips I don't see him as a true glass eater in the pros. He's a lot more athletic than other bigs in college and he has a quickness advantage that won't necessarily translate to the pros. I would be surprised if he puts up a Horford-esque rebound rate, or even Noah for that matter.

 

You get him because he has the most developed inside-outside game of any prospect since at least Melo. He truly has an amazingly refined offensive game for a freshman. His perimeter skills aren't up to Durant or Mayo's level but he's a lot better around the rim than Anthony was.

 

I kind of like our big situation as it is and I love it with the addition of Rose. Noah and Ty are on their way to becoming very formidble on the glass and shutting down the paint. Gooden is a decent enough post threat. But Rose opens up Noah and Ty offensively in ways that Beasley won't.

[Wilson A2000]

Portland might want Hinrich. The 13th pick is way too much for him right? Plus, the Bulls don't want three picks.

[DivineBovine]

Recent highly drafted (top 10) 6'9" ish fowards:

2007: Kevin Durant, Al Horford, Jeff Green, Corey Brewer, Brandon Wright, Joakim Noah,

2006: Lamarcus Aldridge, Tyrus Thomas, Shelden Williams, Rudy Gay

2005: Marvin Williams, Charlie Villaneuva, Channing Frye

2004: Dwight Howard, Emeka Okafor

2003: Darko Milicic, Chris Bosh, Michael Sweetney

 

Recent highly drafted PG's:

2007: Mike Conley

2006: none

2005: Chris Paul, Deron Williams

2004: Devin Harris

2003: TJ Ford

 

Guys that can score and rebound are way way more common than playmaker PG's. This is true in the draft, and this is true in the league. And look at all those forwards. Some very good players, even some great ones. A lot of mediocre players. And a lot of mediocre players who got drafted over much better guards because they could put up 20/10 type numbers against smaller, slower, weaker guys in college or high school. Yawn.

 

PG's who are projected to be bona fide #1's don't come along very often, and PG's who proved themselves in college are even more rare. Rose supposedly has once in 10 year talent, you have to take him. If he has a chance at being Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Steve Nash, its a no brainer. Players like that are simply not available, and make a huge impact on their teams. Guys that can score and rebound can be had. They can be traded for, they can be paid as free agents. And they can't easily carry their teams to championship contenders.

 

It's not necessarily about who's better Rose or Beasley, because they play different positions. It's about how often are you going to have an opportunity to get a PG of Rose's caliber vs yet another power forward who can score and rebound, who maybe can do it in the NBA.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

You forgot Hinrich in 2003, Gordon and Livingston in 2004, and Felton in 2005

[tadowdaddy]

Beasley can run the court, he hustles, and his off the court issues are non-existant (Rick Morrisey).

 

I read something that said he was kicked out of a bunch of schools, yet only committed "minor" indiscretions like slashing car tires, graffiti and putting a dead rat on a teachers desk.

 

Okay, so he didn't rape anybody, good for him, but that's some serious signs of one screwed up prick.

 

 

That was in high school. He had NO incidents at KSU. Starting to think he's grown up quite a bit. Who doesn't screw around like that in high school? It's better than the alternative of gangs, drugs, booze etc..... He's never gotten in trouble with the law. He was a practical joker. As Frank Martin said, if those are the only issues you have to deal with with a kid, then I'll take those kind of issues ANY time.

[Soul]

Beasley can run the court, he hustles, and his off the court issues are non-existant (Rick Morrisey).

 

I read something that said he was kicked out of a bunch of schools, yet only committed "minor" indiscretions like slashing car tires, graffiti and putting a dead rat on a teachers desk.

 

Okay, so he didn't rape anybody, good for him, but that's some serious signs of one screwed up prick.

 

 

That was in high school. He had NO incidents at KSU. Starting to think he's grown up quite a bit. Who doesn't screw around like that in high school? It's better than the alternative of gangs, drugs, booze etc..... He's never gotten in trouble with the law. He was a practical joker. As Frank Martin said, if those are the only issues you have to deal with with a kid, then I'll take those kind of issues ANY time.

 

Slashing someone's tires and vandalism are both crimes. He might not have done them in college, but they are still crimes.

 

I'm not saying he's terrible, but it certainly warrants more investigation by the Bulls scouts, than, say, liking Ding Dongs.

[UMFan83]

I'm firmly in the Rose camp, but one thing that I want to point out is that Beasley is more than in the 20/10 camp. He's a 26/12 guy who led the nation in rebounding and was third in the nation in scoring (first among big conference players).

 

Although I agree, it can be faulty to use stats to support a particular player. A 6'9'' player who dominates in college might get trampled by the larger more athletic NBA players.

[RynoRules]

I'm firmly in the Rose camp, but one thing that I want to point out is that Beasley is more than in the 20/10 camp. He's a 26/12 guy who led the nation in rebounding and was third in the nation in scoring (first among big conference players).

 

Although I agree, it can be faulty to use stats to support a particular player. A 6'9'' player who dominates in college might get trampled by the larger more athletic NBA players.

 

Its not even about athleticism - I don't question his ability to deal with strong and fast NBA players. I worry about his desire to be the best and to do the necessary little things.

 

I keep coming back to Derrick Coleman. Same height and weight as Beasley. He dominated at 'Cuse and could have been one of the best PF's of all-time. Instead, he was happy to do enough to keep getting a paycheck. He drank and partied too much, was poorly conditioned for the vast majority of his career, ran Butch Beard out of NJ and caused Chuck Daley's head to explode. He was also allergic to playing defense and averse to taking on a leadership role after Drazen Petrovic's untimely death.

 

Beasley screams Derrick Coleman to me. The same red flags have been raised in terms of his ethic, desire, and goofball tendencies (how many schools did he go to?). Plus he was recruited by Bob Huggins. ( I know I should not paint with a broad brush in this respect, but recruiting good kids with strong work ethics has never been one of Huggin's priorities. IIRC, his graduation rate at Cinci was less than 10%, and for a while was zero. And what happens when those kids get to the pros?: Kenyon Martin, Nick Van Exel, Dontonio Wingfield, etc.)

[Soul]

I'm firmly in the Rose camp, but one thing that I want to point out is that Beasley is more than in the 20/10 camp. He's a 26/12 guy who led the nation in rebounding and was third in the nation in scoring (first among big conference players).

 

Although I agree, it can be faulty to use stats to support a particular player. A 6'9'' player who dominates in college might get trampled by the larger more athletic NBA players.

 

Its not even about athleticism - I don't question his ability to deal with strong and fast NBA players. I worry about his desire to be the best and to do the necessary little things.

 

I keep coming back to Derrick Coleman. Same height and weight as Beasley. He dominated at 'Cuse and could have been one of the best PF's of all-time. Instead, he was happy to do enough to keep getting a paycheck. He drank and partied too much, was poorly conditioned for the vast majority of his career, ran Butch Beard out of NJ and caused Chuck Daley's head to explode. He was also allergic to playing defense and averse to taking on a leadership role after Drazen Petrovic's untimely death.

 

Beasley screams Derrick Coleman to me. The same red flags have been raised in terms of his ethic, desire, and goofball tendencies (how many schools did he go to?). Plus he was recruited by Bob Huggins. ( I know I should not paint with a broad brush in this respect, but recruiting good kids with strong work ethics has never been one of Huggin's priorities. IIRC, his graduation rate at Cinci was less than 10%, and for a while was zero. And what happens when those kids get to the pros?: Kenyon Martin, Nick Van Exel, Dontonio Wingfield, etc.)

 

Now you're scaring me about Beasley. Please draft Rose.

[CubinNY]

Beasley screams Derrick Coleman to me. The same red flags have been raised in terms of his ethic, desire, and goofball tendencies (how many schools did he go to?). Plus he was recruited by Bob Huggins. ( I know I should not paint with a broad brush in this respect, but recruiting good kids with strong work ethics has never been one of Huggin's priorities. IIRC, his graduation rate at Cinci was less than 10%, and for a while was zero. And what happens when those kids get to the pros?: Kenyon Martin, Nick Van Exel, Dontonio Wingfield, etc.)

I'm not much of a college basketball fan so I cannot comment on the Coleman Beasley thing, however low graduation rates are somewhat of a red herring. When I was at OSU the graduation rate (within 4 years) for ALL undergrads averaged around 35%-45%. At most of these big schools graduation rates for all undergraduates is pretty poor. Graduation rates are always going to be worse because many times the athletes come to college unprepared to succeed at college.

 

I know some of the people who work with the athletes at the University of Memphis, and they are working hard with the athletes even before the athletes formally take classes. I think it is a bit unfair to make blanket statements about programs.

[jersey cubs fan]

Beasley can run the court, he hustles, and his off the court issues are non-existant (Rick Morrisey).

 

I read something that said he was kicked out of a bunch of schools, yet only committed "minor" indiscretions like slashing car tires, graffiti and putting a dead rat on a teachers desk.

 

Okay, so he didn't rape anybody, good for him, but that's some serious signs of one screwed up prick.

 

 

That was in high school. He had NO incidents at KSU. Starting to think he's grown up quite a bit. Who doesn't screw around like that in high school? It's better than the alternative of gangs, drugs, booze etc..... He's never gotten in trouble with the law. He was a practical joker. As Frank Martin said, if those are the only issues you have to deal with with a kid, then I'll take those kind of issues ANY time.

 

How long was he in KSU?

 

Who doesn't screw around like that in high school? Most people. Graffiti isn't much of anything, but slashing tires, dead rats in teacher's desks, and getting kicked out of multiple schools? Those are not practical jokes. That's a prick with no regard for other humans. Give that person millions of dollars and you are most likely going to see more problems.

[Soul]

Beasley screams Derrick Coleman to me. The same red flags have been raised in terms of his ethic, desire, and goofball tendencies (how many schools did he go to?). Plus he was recruited by Bob Huggins. ( I know I should not paint with a broad brush in this respect, but recruiting good kids with strong work ethics has never been one of Huggin's priorities. IIRC, his graduation rate at Cinci was less than 10%, and for a while was zero. And what happens when those kids get to the pros?: Kenyon Martin, Nick Van Exel, Dontonio Wingfield, etc.)

I'm not much of a college basketball fan so I cannot comment on the Coleman Beasley thing, however low graduation rates are somewhat of a red herring. When I was at OSU the graduation rate (within 4 years) for ALL undergrads averaged around 35%-45%. At most of these big schools graduation rates for all undergraduates is pretty poor. Graduation rates are always going to be worse because many times the athletes come to college unprepared to succeed at college.

 

I know some of the people who work with the athletes at the University of Memphis, and they are working hard with the athletes even before the athletes formally take classes. I think it is a bit unfair to make blanket statements about programs.

 

Good point, but just judging on what I've heard about Beasley, I think the complete picture reveals at least some concern. The last place I want to be as a fan is 3 years down the road after Beasley busts and hearing reports that the scouts really didn't look closely at his past shenanigans. I think we've been down this road too many times before. It's a really painful place to be, both as an organization and frankly, as a fan.

[UMFan83]

I'm firmly in the Rose camp, but one thing that I want to point out is that Beasley is more than in the 20/10 camp. He's a 26/12 guy who led the nation in rebounding and was third in the nation in scoring (first among big conference players).

 

Although I agree, it can be faulty to use stats to support a particular player. A 6'9'' player who dominates in college might get trampled by the larger more athletic NBA players.

 

Its not even about athleticism - I don't question his ability to deal with strong and fast NBA players. I worry about his desire to be the best and to do the necessary little things.

 

I keep coming back to Derrick Coleman. Same height and weight as Beasley. He dominated at 'Cuse and could have been one of the best PF's of all-time. Instead, he was happy to do enough to keep getting a paycheck. He drank and partied too much, was poorly conditioned for the vast majority of his career, ran Butch Beard out of NJ and caused Chuck Daley's head to explode. He was also allergic to playing defense and averse to taking on a leadership role after Drazen Petrovic's untimely death.

 

Beasley screams Derrick Coleman to me. The same red flags have been raised in terms of his ethic, desire, and goofball tendencies (how many schools did he go to?). Plus he was recruited by Bob Huggins. ( I know I should not paint with a broad brush in this respect, but recruiting good kids with strong work ethics has never been one of Huggin's priorities. IIRC, his graduation rate at Cinci was less than 10%, and for a while was zero. And what happens when those kids get to the pros?: Kenyon Martin, Nick Van Exel, Dontonio Wingfield, etc.)

 

Now you're scaring me about Beasley. Please draft Rose.

 

No I agree. If all other things are equal, you gotta look at character. And Rose isn't even a neutral with character, he's a strong positive. Beasley is a slight/moderate negative.

[jersey cubs fan]

Beasley screams Derrick Coleman to me. The same red flags have been raised in terms of his ethic, desire, and goofball tendencies (how many schools did he go to?). Plus he was recruited by Bob Huggins. ( I know I should not paint with a broad brush in this respect, but recruiting good kids with strong work ethics has never been one of Huggin's priorities. IIRC, his graduation rate at Cinci was less than 10%, and for a while was zero. And what happens when those kids get to the pros?: Kenyon Martin, Nick Van Exel, Dontonio Wingfield, etc.)

I'm not much of a college basketball fan so I cannot comment on the Coleman Beasley thing, however low graduation rates are somewhat of a red herring. When I was at OSU the graduation rate (within 4 years) for ALL undergrads averaged around 35%-45%. At most of these big schools graduation rates for all undergraduates is pretty poor. Graduation rates are always going to be worse because many times the athletes come to college unprepared to succeed at college.

 

I know some of the people who work with the athletes at the University of Memphis, and they are working hard with the athletes even before the athletes formally take classes. I think it is a bit unfair to make blanket statements about programs.

 

But it's not unfair to pick on the outliers, which, I believe Huggins' programs have always been.