Bulls get the #1 pick! 2008 NBA Draft Discussion

[UMFan83]

Elton Brand is 6-8 and he is one of the better PFs in the league. He plays just as well as the other elite western conference power forwards.

 

 

IIRC, that was the big issue with Brand when he was drafted by the Bulls.

[SouthSideRyan]

Beasley can run the court, he hustles, and his off the court issues are non-existant (Rick Morrisey).

 

I read something that said he was kicked out of a bunch of schools, yet only committed "minor" indiscretions like slashing car tires, graffiti and putting a dead rat on a teachers desk.

 

Okay, so he didn't rape anybody, good for him, but that's some serious signs of one screwed up prick.

 

 

That was in high school. He had NO incidents at KSU. Starting to think he's grown up quite a bit. Who doesn't screw around like that in high school? It's better than the alternative of gangs, drugs, booze etc..... He's never gotten in trouble with the law. He was a practical joker. As Frank Martin said, if those are the only issues you have to deal with with a kid, then I'll take those kind of issues ANY time.

 

How long was he in KSU?

 

Who doesn't screw around like that in high school? Most people. Graffiti isn't much of anything, but slashing tires, dead rats in teacher's desks, and getting kicked out of multiple schools? Those are not practical jokes. That's a prick with no regard for other humans. Give that person millions of dollars and you are most likely going to see more problems.

 

I'd say spray-painting a teacher's car window is pretty bad.

[Keener98]

The excuse making for Beasleys behavior in this thread by a couple people is absurd. But the grasping for straws to try and make Rose sound like a bad kid is even more absurd.

[jaydee]

The excuse making for Beasleys behavior in this thread by a couple people is absurd. But the grasping for straws to try and make Rose sound like a bad kid is even more absurd.

 

Rose eats gummy bears. What a horrible kid!

[Keener98]

The excuse making for Beasleys behavior in this thread by a couple people is absurd. But the grasping for straws to try and make Rose sound like a bad kid is even more absurd.

 

Rose eats gummy bears. What a horrible kid!

 

I heard gummy bears are worse than crack, I wish Rose would just start writing his name in spraypaint places, and put a dead rat on his teachers desk so he could be a normal kid instead of a gummy bear eating, fatty.

[Magnetic Curses]

i don't buy the comaprison between coleman and beasley.

 

coleman was a solid player as a college freshman, nowhere near as developed as beasley is at this point. beasley has an outside game and is more athletic. the comparison really isn't any more or less valid than a comparison to any other inside player who has ever played in the nba.

 

beasley has an all-around game and can do a lot more than coleman could ever do.

 

I completely disagree with your assessment of Coleman's game at the college level. He had small fwd skills and could still beat you with his back to the basket. His rebounding numbers (not effort, mind you) were also very strong. He avged 20 and 10 in his first few yrs in the pros too.

 

EDIT:

 

Coleman at Cuse:

 

MIN FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG TPG BPG SPG PPG

86-87 Syracuse 30.6 56.0 0.0 68.6 8.8 1.2 1.8 1.8 1.2 11.9

87-88 Syracuse 32.4 58.7 16.7 63.0 11.0 2.2 2.2 1.6 1.3 13.5

88-89 Syracuse 33.1 57.5 0.0 69.2 11.4 2.9 2.4 3.4 1.2 16.9

89-90 Syracuse 35.3 55.1 36.6 71.5 12.1 2.9 2.7 2.0 1.5 17.9

 

And don't discount how good his teammates were. The reason he didn't score as much as Beasley did last season is because he played with Sherm Douglas, Billy Owens and - for one season - Ron Seikley.

 

1. small forward skills? i didn't really see them. he could face up under 15 feet and take slower guys to the hoop, but he had no perimeter skills to speak of, and a non-existent outside shot.

 

2. your mention of the first few years of coleman's pro career kind of confuse me.

 

3. i wouldn't mention sherman douglas, one of the best assist men of his era, as a reason derrick coleman wasn't as prolific a scorer as beasley.

[SpongeWorthy]

As much as Coleman is ripped the guy had a surprisingly long and productive career.

[RynoRules]

i don't buy the comaprison between coleman and beasley.

 

coleman was a solid player as a college freshman, nowhere near as developed as beasley is at this point. beasley has an outside game and is more athletic. the comparison really isn't any more or less valid than a comparison to any other inside player who has ever played in the nba.

 

beasley has an all-around game and can do a lot more than coleman could ever do.

 

I completely disagree with your assessment of Coleman's game at the college level. He had small fwd skills and could still beat you with his back to the basket. His rebounding numbers (not effort, mind you) were also very strong. He avged 20 and 10 in his first few yrs in the pros too.

 

EDIT:

 

Coleman at Cuse:

 

MIN FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG TPG BPG SPG PPG

86-87 Syracuse 30.6 56.0 0.0 68.6 8.8 1.2 1.8 1.8 1.2 11.9

87-88 Syracuse 32.4 58.7 16.7 63.0 11.0 2.2 2.2 1.6 1.3 13.5

88-89 Syracuse 33.1 57.5 0.0 69.2 11.4 2.9 2.4 3.4 1.2 16.9

89-90 Syracuse 35.3 55.1 36.6 71.5 12.1 2.9 2.7 2.0 1.5 17.9

 

And don't discount how good his teammates were. The reason he didn't score as much as Beasley did last season is because he played with Sherm Douglas, Billy Owens and - for one season - Ron Seikley.

 

1. small forward skills? i didn't really see them. he could face up under 15 feet and take slower guys to the hoop, but he had no perimeter skills to speak of, and a non-existent outside shot.

 

2. your mention of the first few years of coleman's pro career kind of confuse me.

 

3. i wouldn't mention sherman douglas, one of the best assist men of his era, as a reason derrick coleman wasn't as prolific a scorer as beasley.

 

My responses, point by point:

 

1) This tells me you never watched him play.

 

2) What's to be confused about? You said beasley is a better rebounder. Coleman's 10-plus rebounding avg in college and then during his first five seasons in the pros contradict your argument.

 

3) So because Douglas could both dish it and score it he somehow did not take away from Coleman's scoring avg? Douglas avged approx. 18 PPG during his four years, three of which were played with Coleman, so please explain to me how it was that Sherm Douglas was not a scorer in college. And what about Billy Owens, who avged 13 PPG in 89' and 18 PPG in 90'? Stephen Thompson who avged 18 ppg in both 89' and 90', and double-digits the two years before that? Seikaly who avged 15 ppg in 87' and 16 ppg in 88'? You don't think these guys took away from Coleman's scoring?

[Magnetic Curses]

My responses, point by point:

 

1) This tells me you never watched him play.

 

egad, man.

 

2) What's to be confused about? You said beasley is a better rebounder. Coleman's 10-plus rebounding avg in college and then during his first five seasons in the pros contradict your argument.

 

first of all, i never said that beasley was the better rebounder. but okay, beasley is the better rebounder.

 

and i don't see why coleman averaging 10+ rebounds per game in college makes him a better rebounder than beasley. wouldn't coleman have to actually average more rebounds than beasley to be a better rebounder?

 

in beasley's freshman year, he averaged more rebounds per game than coleman ever averaged in any single year at syracuse.

 

3) So because Douglas could both dish it and score it he somehow did not take away from Coleman's scoring avg? Douglas avged approx. 18 PPG during his four years, three of which were played with Coleman, so please explain to me how it was that Sherm Douglas was not a scorer in college.

 

where did i say that he didn't score? i said that he was one of the best passers to have played college basketball in the last 20 years. if you're telling me that a ton of those assists weren't going to coleman, you're lying.

 

And what about Billy Owens, who avged 13 PPG in 89' and 18 PPG in 90'? Stephen Thompson who avged 18 ppg in both 89' and 90', and double-digits the two years before that? Seikaly who avged 15 ppg in 87' and 16 ppg in 88'? You don't think these guys took away from Coleman's scoring?

 

no, what that tells me is that coleman wasn't double and triple teamed as much as beasley was.

 

your comparison to derrick coleman doesn't fit at all. i know you're all proud of it and that somebody complimented you on it, but besides the fact that both are black, left-handed, fairly tall, and play basketball--it's not much of a comparison.

 

i get the feeling that the left-handed thing is the driving force behind this comparison, and it's just not a good enough reason to think that they're the same person.

[RedFlash]

The fact that we are actually having a lively debate about who the take: the stud Derrek Rose, or the stud Michael Beasley, means the Bulls have a good problem on their hands. Anybody who is going to knock Paxso because he could take Beasley, over Rose, needs to go back and rewatch Beasley play. I know it's apples and oranges comparasion but if Kevin Durant (the only NBA player i the last 20 yrs to make Keith Closs look muscle bound---can come in and make an impact as a rookie, then I believe Beasley could make the same impact. Now I understand Seattle needed Durant to start, whereas the Bulls would ease Beasley into the starting role (I surmise it would take less then a month, and the new coach would have Beasley starting over Gooden and Thomas---if either are still on the Bulls). I am a firm believer in the "it's not the size of the dog of the fight, but the size of the fight of the dog" theory of athlethics.

 

With that said, I would take Rose over Beasley, simply because his kind of athelthicism and skillset doesn't come around all that often at his position. Whereas, while Beasley is going to be a star, he kind of players do come around more often. But if the Bulls walked out of the draft with beasley, I would just as estatic. The Bulls are in a no-lose situation, unless they took a Kevin Love, or an Eric Gordon with the 1st pick, which is unlikely.

 

This pointless arguing over who is a better player, is simply that, pointless. The Bulls are leaving the draft with a potential superstar player. Let's leave it at that.

[LeftCoastCubFan]

The excuse making for Beasleys behavior in this thread by a couple people is absurd. But the grasping for straws to try and make Rose sound like a bad kid is even more absurd.

 

Rose eats gummy bears. What a horrible kid!

 

I heard gummy bears are worse than crack, I wish Rose would just start writing his name in spraypaint places, and put a dead rat on his teachers desk so he could be a normal kid instead of a gummy bear eating, fatty.

PETGB (People for the Ethical Treatment of Gummy Bears) is reporting that Rose bites the head off first, then smiles evily.

[nji232]

The excuse making for Beasleys behavior in this thread by a couple people is absurd. But the grasping for straws to try and make Rose sound like a bad kid is even more absurd.

 

Beasley is obviously the devil. Unlike kids who are out smoking crack and getting into real trouble, he had a little fun that went too far. Tell me you didn't do the same when you were a kid.

 

People think Rose is a saint. Here is an in college incident involvingNeither Rose (Beasley has none of these)

http://www.memphisrap.com/cgi-bin/content/pub9990263694155.cgi?itemid=9990285813644

 

Neither of these guys are bad kids. Both have made mistakes, Beasley's are more numerous and more publicized.

[Keener98]

The excuse making for Beasleys behavior in this thread by a couple people is absurd. But the grasping for straws to try and make Rose sound like a bad kid is even more absurd.

 

Beasley is obviously the devil. Unlike kids who are out smoking crack and getting into real trouble, he had a little fun that went too far. Tell me you didn't do the same when you were a kid.

 

People think Rose is a saint. Here is an in college incident involvingNeither Rose (Beasley has none of these)

http://www.memphisrap.com/cgi-bin/content/pub9990263694155.cgi?itemid=9990285813644

 

Neither of these guys are bad kids. Both have made mistakes, Beasley's are more numerous and more publicized.

 

Fighting with another guy over a girl=being a kid. Spray painting grafiiti, placing dead rats on a teachers desk, and allegedly slashing tires.....not so much. If you cant see the difference I dont know what to tell you.

[wolf stansson]

Come on now! Who among us haven't committed a few harmless felonies? It's just part of being a kid.

[ELCABALLO45]

Im a Buck fan and I just wanted to say that being a Buck fan really sucks. And this brings nothing to this conversation. Carry on. But I think Rose would make Noah and Thomas alot better.

[RedFlash]

Im a Buck fan and I just wanted to say that being a Buck fan really sucks. And this brings nothing to this conversation. Carry on. But I think Rose would make Noah and Thomas alot better.

 

Skiles will get your team heading into the right direction in no time. Believe me.

[Yeti]

Come on now! Who among us haven't committed a few harmless felonies? It's just part of being a kid.

shoot, i still commit felonies from time to time :wink:

[ELCABALLO45]

Im a Buck fan and I just wanted to say that being a Buck fan really sucks. And this brings nothing to this conversation. Carry on. But I think Rose would make Noah and Thomas alot better.

 

Skiles will get your team heading into the right direction in no time. Believe me.

 

I hope so, Im glad we got him, he is exactly who I wanted.

[RynoRules]

your comparison to derrick coleman doesn't fit at all. i know you're all proud of it and that somebody complimented you on it, but besides the fact that both are black, left-handed, fairly tall, and play basketball--it's not much of a comparison.

 

I am not so much proud of it as I am convinced of it. Its like "de ja vu all over again". The fact that we are debating it is the fun of it. We'll soon see if the comparison is apt.

 

i get the feeling that the left-handed thing is the driving force behind this comparison, and it's just not a good enough reason to think that they're the same person.

 

 

Would you prefer a Vin Baker comparison, because I am reminded of him aswell?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bakervi01.html

[Magnetic Curses]

your comparison to derrick coleman doesn't fit at all. i know you're all proud of it and that somebody complimented you on it, but besides the fact that both are black, left-handed, fairly tall, and play basketball--it's not much of a comparison.

 

I am not so much proud of it as I am convinced of it. Its like "de ja vu all over again". The fact that we are debating it is the fun of it. We'll soon see if the comparison is apt.

 

there's just no proof that beasley is much like coleman. he dominated the competition while being constantly double-teamed, remaining the focus of the opposing team's defensive strategy.

 

again, his perimeter game is more developed than coleman's ever was, which isn't saying much, but oh well. he routinely took men off the dribble from 25 feet out, he could hit the three with some regularity. he controlled the boards, he was as effective an interior scorer as anyone who has played the college game in recent memory. there's really not much about his game to badmouth.

 

in fact, i can't think of anyone to compare his game to. he's a very unique player in that he's an animal inside with the skills of a 3.

 

Would you prefer a Vin Baker comparison, because I am reminded of him aswell?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bakervi01.html

 

you're honestly comparing a guy who dominated the america east conference to a guy who dominated the big 12? a guy who had no outside game, no outside shot to a beasley? are you kidding me?

 

if we're going to get so abstract in our comparison, how about niko skitishvili or darko milicic? how about oliver miller or kurt thomas?

 

if our only criteria now is that said player be relatively tall, why aren't we talking about dwight howard, chris bosh, rasheed wallace, or tim duncan?

 

the more i think about it, the more derrick rose reminds me of scoonie penn, jacques vaughn, and jay williams. there, is that pessimistic of a viewpoint for you? because it makes just as much sense as comparing derrick coleman to michael beasley.

[imb]

I saw Tskitishvilli play in an exhibition game against LA in OKC his rookie year.

 

He didn't play much, but he did clang THREE separate warm up shots from the corner off of the side of the backboard.

 

For the record, Beasley reminds me of Chris Webber with less handle/passing ability or a more rugged Derrick Coleman.

[RynoRules]

your comparison to derrick coleman doesn't fit at all. i know you're all proud of it and that somebody complimented you on it, but besides the fact that both are black, left-handed, fairly tall, and play basketball--it's not much of a comparison.

 

I am not so much proud of it as I am convinced of it. Its like "de ja vu all over again". The fact that we are debating it is the fun of it. We'll soon see if the comparison is apt.

 

there's just no proof that beasley is much like coleman. he dominated the competition while being constantly double-teamed, remaining the focus of the opposing team's defensive strategy.

 

again, his perimeter game is more developed than coleman's ever was, which isn't saying much, but oh well. he routinely took men off the dribble from 25 feet out, he could hit the three with some regularity. he controlled the boards, he was as effective an interior scorer as anyone who has played the college game in recent memory. there's really not much about his game to badmouth.

 

in fact, i can't think of anyone to compare his game to. he's a very unique player in that he's an animal inside with the skills of a 3.

 

Would you prefer a Vin Baker comparison, because I am reminded of him aswell?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bakervi01.html

 

you're honestly comparing a guy who dominated the america east conference to a guy who dominated the big 12? a guy who had no outside game, no outside shot to a beasley? are you kidding me?

 

if we're going to get so abstract in our comparison, how about niko skitishvili or darko milicic? how about oliver miller or kurt thomas?

 

if our only criteria now is that said player be relatively tall, why aren't we talking about dwight howard, chris bosh, rasheed wallace, or tim duncan?

 

the more i think about it, the more derrick rose reminds me of scoonie penn, jacques vaughn, and jay williams. there, is that pessimistic of a viewpoint for you? because it makes just as much sense as comparing derrick coleman to michael beasley.

 

I think that is major hyperbole on your part. Makes it difficult to respond to you.

 

Vin Baker had a nice jump shot Perhaps not as developed as Beasley's, but still. The Baker reference was mostly to refute your "he's left-handed and so is Beasley" argument.

 

My main concern with Beasley was and is that he won't work hard enough when he gets to the pros. There are lots of guys who have "mad" athletic skills at that level - will he do what is necessary to put himself into an elite category befitting a number one pick?

[tadowdaddy]

Beasley can run the court, he hustles, and his off the court issues are non-existant (Rick Morrisey).

 

I read something that said he was kicked out of a bunch of schools, yet only committed "minor" indiscretions like slashing car tires, graffiti and putting a dead rat on a teachers desk.

 

Okay, so he didn't rape anybody, good for him, but that's some serious signs of one screwed up prick.

 

 

That was in high school. He had NO incidents at KSU. Starting to think he's grown up quite a bit. Who doesn't screw around like that in high school? It's better than the alternative of gangs, drugs, booze etc..... He's never gotten in trouble with the law. He was a practical joker. As Frank Martin said, if those are the only issues you have to deal with with a kid, then I'll take those kind of issues ANY time.

 

How long was he in KSU?

 

Who doesn't screw around like that in high school? Most people. Graffiti isn't much of anything, but slashing tires, dead rats in teacher's desks, and getting kicked out of multiple schools? Those are not practical jokes. That's a prick with no regard for other humans. Give that person millions of dollars and you are most likely going to see more problems.

 

I'd say spray-painting a teacher's car window is pretty bad.

 

I love how it goes from writing with magic marker on a teachers car window to now spray painting it? Hilarious.

[tadowdaddy]

I saw Tskitishvilli play in an exhibition game against LA in OKC his rookie year.

 

He didn't play much, but he did clang THREE separate warm up shots from the corner off of the side of the backboard.

 

For the record, Beasley reminds me of Chris Webber with less handle/passing ability or a more rugged Derrick Coleman.

 

 

The Coleman comparison will go away after his first year in the Pro's. Book it!

[Magnetic Curses]

your comparison to derrick coleman doesn't fit at all. i know you're all proud of it and that somebody complimented you on it, but besides the fact that both are black, left-handed, fairly tall, and play basketball--it's not much of a comparison.

 

I am not so much proud of it as I am convinced of it. Its like "de ja vu all over again". The fact that we are debating it is the fun of it. We'll soon see if the comparison is apt.

 

there's just no proof that beasley is much like coleman. he dominated the competition while being constantly double-teamed, remaining the focus of the opposing team's defensive strategy.

 

again, his perimeter game is more developed than coleman's ever was, which isn't saying much, but oh well. he routinely took men off the dribble from 25 feet out, he could hit the three with some regularity. he controlled the boards, he was as effective an interior scorer as anyone who has played the college game in recent memory. there's really not much about his game to badmouth.

 

in fact, i can't think of anyone to compare his game to. he's a very unique player in that he's an animal inside with the skills of a 3.

 

Would you prefer a Vin Baker comparison, because I am reminded of him aswell?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bakervi01.html

 

you're honestly comparing a guy who dominated the america east conference to a guy who dominated the big 12? a guy who had no outside game, no outside shot to a beasley? are you kidding me?

 

if we're going to get so abstract in our comparison, how about niko skitishvili or darko milicic? how about oliver miller or kurt thomas?

 

if our only criteria now is that said player be relatively tall, why aren't we talking about dwight howard, chris bosh, rasheed wallace, or tim duncan?

 

the more i think about it, the more derrick rose reminds me of scoonie penn, jacques vaughn, and jay williams. there, is that pessimistic of a viewpoint for you? because it makes just as much sense as comparing derrick coleman to michael beasley.

 

I think that is major hyperbole on your part. Makes it difficult to respond to you.

 

Vin Baker had a nice jump shot Perhaps not as developed as Beasley's, but still. The Baker reference was mostly to refute your "he's left-handed and so is Beasley" argument.

 

My main concern with Beasley was and is that he won't work hard enough when he gets to the pros. There are lots of guys who have "mad" athletic skills at that level - will he do what is necessary to put himself into an elite category befitting a number one pick?

 

what is "major hyperbole"? i can't think of many players with beasley's skill set to come out of college. i think imb's comparison to webber is more apt, even though webber didn't have the away-from-the-basket, face-up ability that beasley has. webber developed a lethal mid-range game with time, as his physical domination declined.

 

as far as being a hard-worker, there's no way that anyone here can predict that any draftee will be, for sure, a hard-worker in the nba. so, that's all conjecture.