Bulls get the #1 pick! 2008 NBA Draft Discussion

[Derwood]

court vision scores:

Jason Kidd - 8.96

Deron Williams - 8.71

Steve Nash - 8.91

Derrick Rose - 8.64

 

are those park adjusted?

[Soul]

I don't remember people touting Deron's court vision as cream-of-the-crop coming out of Illinois. I would think it's pretty difficult to accurately project something like that.

[wolf stansson]

I don't remember people touting Deron's court vision as cream-of-the-crop coming out of Illinois. I would think it's pretty difficult to accurately project something like that.

I do. In fact, that was his most heralded ability in college.

[UMFan83]

From the Sun Times:

 

Doug Collins to become Bulls head coach

 

May 29, 2008Recommend

 

BY BRIAN HANLEY Staff Reporter

Doug Collins will become the next Bulls head coach, according to a source.

 

The source said the deal is expected to be announced "sooner rather than later."

 

Expect one of the other candidates general manager John Paxson interviewed to be one of Collins' assistants.

 

 

 

Collins coached the Bulls from 1986-89 and took the Bulls to the Eastern Conference finals. He also coached the Detroit Pistons and later coached Michael Jordan on the Washington Wizards.

 

Collins is an intense, fiery coach, who will remind some of Scott Skiles, who was fired on Christmas Eve.

 

Recently, Collins said he didn't want to leave his broadcasting job with TNT. Since then, the Bulls landed the No. 1 draft pick.

 

A native of Benton, Ill., Collins starred at Illinois State.

[Magnetic Curses]

From the Sun Times:

 

Doug Collins to become Bulls head coach

 

May 29, 2008Recommend

 

BY BRIAN HANLEY Staff Reporter

Doug Collins will become the next Bulls head coach, according to a source.

 

The source said the deal is expected to be announced "sooner rather than later."

 

Expect one of the other candidates general manager John Paxson interviewed to be one of Collins' assistants.

 

 

 

Collins coached the Bulls from 1986-89 and took the Bulls to the Eastern Conference finals. He also coached the Detroit Pistons and later coached Michael Jordan on the Washington Wizards.

 

Collins is an intense, fiery coach, who will remind some of Scott Skiles, who was fired on Christmas Eve.

 

Recently, Collins said he didn't want to leave his broadcasting job with TNT. Since then, the Bulls landed the No. 1 draft pick.

 

A native of Benton, Ill., Collins starred at Illinois State.

 

is this a joke? i always thought he was a good coach, and he kind of got the shaft in 1989.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

is this a joke? i always thought he was a good coach, and he kind of got the shaft in 1989.

nope...

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/977280,collins052908.article

[Magnetic Curses]

i wouldn't say that rose's court vision is a huge strength, others might, but i don't. his athleticism and explosiveness are his strengths and that's what makes him a great college player. as far as court vision, he's not close to guys like jason kidd, deron williams, or steve nash.

 

Rose's "court vision" is better then you give him credit for. And IMO, I think his court vision will rival Kidd, Nash, and Deron Williams in no time.

 

To say that Rose's court vision is not a strength is laughable.

 

i wouldn't call it a weakness, but as far as i can tell, it's not something i'd mention as great strength in the vein of the better point guards in the league.

[andrew9991]

So has anybody heard which way Collins leans on the Rose vs. Beasley debate? Or, is that going to be 100% Pax's call?

[Soul]

So has anybody heard which way Collins leans on the Rose vs. Beasley debate?

 

Total off-the-wall guess: Rose.

[cbbryan]

Am I the only one completely shocked by the Collins hiring?

[Soul]

Am I the only one completely shocked by the Collins hiring?

 

I'm a little suprised. Not completely shocked.

[Tyrant]

 

i wouldn't call it a weakness, but as far as i can tell, it's not something i'd mention as great strength in the vein of the better point guards in the league.

 

How much have you watched Rose play?

 

I don't think you can make judgments about something like court vision unless you've watched him play extensively.

[Derwood]

so will Avery Johnson end up anywhere or will he be an analyst for the Worldwide Leader this year?

[Magnetic Curses]

 

i wouldn't call it a weakness, but as far as i can tell, it's not something i'd mention as great strength in the vein of the better point guards in the league.

 

How much have you watched Rose play?

 

I don't think you can make judgments about something like court vision unless you've watched him play extensively.

 

why would you say this to me and not to someone who says he might have the best court vision of anyone they've ever seen? i mean, isn't that a bolder statement than "i wouldn't call his court vision a weakness but i don't think he's in the class of some of the best point guards in the league right now"?

 

i hate having to defend my perceptions by boasting about who and what i've seen and how many times i've seen them in person, so i'm not going to do it here. but let's just say that i've followed derrick rose's career rather closely since before he had ever set foot in tennessee.

[Exile on Waveland]

 

i wouldn't call it a weakness, but as far as i can tell, it's not something i'd mention as great strength in the vein of the better point guards in the league.

 

How much have you watched Rose play?

 

I don't think you can make judgments about something like court vision unless you've watched him play extensively.

 

why would you say this to me and not to someone who says he might have the best court vision of anyone they've ever seen? i mean, isn't that a bolder statement than "i wouldn't call his court vision a weakness but i don't think he's in the class of some of the best point guards in the league right now"?

 

i hate having to defend my perceptions by boasting about who and what i've seen and how many times i've seen them in person, so i'm not going to do it here. but let's just say that i've followed derrick rose's career rather closely since before he had ever set foot in tennessee.

 

I agree with your assessment on Rose's court vision. It's good, but I wouldn't necessarily say great. He's great at getting into the lane, but still better at creating for himself than others. He's not even in Kidd's league in this respect, but, then again, few ever have been.

[nick23]

 

i wouldn't call it a weakness, but as far as i can tell, it's not something i'd mention as great strength in the vein of the better point guards in the league.

 

How much have you watched Rose play?

 

I don't think you can make judgments about something like court vision unless you've watched him play extensively.

 

why would you say this to me and not to someone who says he might have the best court vision of anyone they've ever seen? i mean, isn't that a bolder statement than "i wouldn't call his court vision a weakness but i don't think he's in the class of some of the best point guards in the league right now"?

 

i hate having to defend my perceptions by boasting about who and what i've seen and how many times i've seen them in person, so i'm not going to do it here. but let's just say that i've followed derrick rose's career rather closely since before he had ever set foot in tennessee.

 

I agree with your assessment on Rose's court vision. It's good, but I wouldn't necessarily say great. He's great at getting into the lane, but still better at creating for himself than others. He's not even in Kidd's league in this respect, but, then again, few ever have been.

 

I really disagree with this. He does have great court vision, and at this point he's just as good at creating for teamates as he is for himself. If you watched this kid all year you'd see he almost always made the right pass. You're not going to rack up many assists in this Memphis offense because it's a dribble drive motion offense. Your options are either layups or 3's. I honestly don't get the Jason Kidd comparisons. Yes he might struggle from long range like Kidd, but if you watch him shoot, you see that he will eventually be a good jump shooter.

[Exile on Waveland]

 

i wouldn't call it a weakness, but as far as i can tell, it's not something i'd mention as great strength in the vein of the better point guards in the league.

 

How much have you watched Rose play?

 

I don't think you can make judgments about something like court vision unless you've watched him play extensively.

 

why would you say this to me and not to someone who says he might have the best court vision of anyone they've ever seen? i mean, isn't that a bolder statement than "i wouldn't call his court vision a weakness but i don't think he's in the class of some of the best point guards in the league right now"?

 

i hate having to defend my perceptions by boasting about who and what i've seen and how many times i've seen them in person, so i'm not going to do it here. but let's just say that i've followed derrick rose's career rather closely since before he had ever set foot in tennessee.

 

I agree with your assessment on Rose's court vision. It's good, but I wouldn't necessarily say great. He's great at getting into the lane, but still better at creating for himself than others. He's not even in Kidd's league in this respect, but, then again, few ever have been.

 

I really disagree with this. He does have great court vision, and at this point he's just as good at creating for teamates as he is for himself. If you watched this kid all year you'd see he almost always made the right pass. You're not going to rack up many assists in this Memphis offense because it's a dribble drive motion offense. Your options are either layups or 3's. I honestly don't get the Jason Kidd comparisons. Yes he might struggle from long range like Kidd, but if you watch him shoot, you see that he will eventually be a good jump shooter.

 

First, it's pretty clear that I didn't compare Rose and Kidd in the manner you're suggesting. I don't consider them terribly similar players among point guards.

 

Second, the Memphis offensive isn't terribly conducive to assists, as you said. However, that is mitigated by various factors: (1) Rose still had the ball in his hands a lot, (2) Memphis scored a lot of points (79.9 per game), (3) Rose was surrounded by various talented offensive players, and (4) Memphis played in a near-farcical league, Conference USA (the second best team was coached by Mike Davis).

 

In the DDM/AASAA, Rose averaged 4.7 assists per game. Antonio Anderson averaged 3.4 (with a better assist to turnover ratio). Anderson averaged 3.6 last year. Two years ago, Darius Washington Jr. averaged 3.1 and Andre Allen 3.0. Rose assisted more than any of these players, but not to the level that one would expect for a supposed transcendent passer at point guard. Relative to his peers at Memphis, his performance was good, but not great, in this category.

 

Carried forward, if Rose has the best court vision ever, he surely compares favorably to Jason Kidd, the recent gold standard of this skill. In two years at Cal, Kidd averaged 7.7 and 9.1 assists per game. That's remarkably better. Kidd is a better passer than Rose. (Cal wasn't as talented as Memphis overall, but Lamond Murray was a devastating scorer in college.)

 

In conclusion, this isn't to denigrate Rose. For multiple reasons, with the information I have available, I would take Rose with the top pick. I believe he's the best player in this draft. He has few weaknesses -- the biggest, his shot, has more room for improvement than Kidd's ever did. He'll create well for teammates in the NBA, and average a lot of assists. I seriously doubt he goes down as the greatest passer in NBA history though.

[tadowdaddy]

A good article for anyone questioning Beasley's character..

 

 

http://www.kansas.com/248/story/421117.html

[Guest]

Most shocking news ever - Joey Dorsey was talking out of his ass:

 

Reporter: It’s not like Joey [Dorsey] doesn’t talk a lot, but he told us where you’re going yesterday. Have you spoken to him about it? Were you shocked when he came out and told you, you were going to Miami, Beasley to Chicago? What are your thoughts about what Joey said?

 

Derrick Rose: Joey is going to be Joey, everybody knows that. He was just in the arcade room, and I was asking him what he was thinking when he said that. And he was just playing around. If anyone knows, it wouldn’t be Joey.

[RedFlash]

Most shocking news ever - Joey Dorsey was talking out of his ass:

 

Reporter: It’s not like Joey [Dorsey] doesn’t talk a lot, but he told us where you’re going yesterday. Have you spoken to him about it? Were you shocked when he came out and told you, you were going to Miami, Beasley to Chicago? What are your thoughts about what Joey said?

 

Derrick Rose: Joey is going to be Joey, everybody knows that. He was just in the arcade room, and I was asking him what he was thinking when he said that. And he was just playing around. If anyone knows, it wouldn’t be Joey.

 

I won't say he was talking out of his ass, I think Joey was just being a kid. I think he was just playing on the early "rumors" that Rose would be a Bull, and he thought he was some fun with the media, and pick the opposite. I see no harm, I just see a kid having a little fun.

[Guest]

Most shocking news ever - Joey Dorsey was talking out of his ass:

 

Reporter: It’s not like Joey [Dorsey] doesn’t talk a lot, but he told us where you’re going yesterday. Have you spoken to him about it? Were you shocked when he came out and told you, you were going to Miami, Beasley to Chicago? What are your thoughts about what Joey said?

 

Derrick Rose: Joey is going to be Joey, everybody knows that. He was just in the arcade room, and I was asking him what he was thinking when he said that. And he was just playing around. If anyone knows, it wouldn’t be Joey.

 

I won't say he was talking out of his ass, I think Joey was just being a kid. I think he was just playing on the early "rumors" that Rose would be a Bull, and he thought he was some fun with the media, and pick the opposite. I see no harm, I just see a kid having a little fun.

 

Certainly no harm.

[RedFlash]

Most shocking news ever - Joey Dorsey was talking out of his ass:

 

Reporter: It’s not like Joey [Dorsey] doesn’t talk a lot, but he told us where you’re going yesterday. Have you spoken to him about it? Were you shocked when he came out and told you, you were going to Miami, Beasley to Chicago? What are your thoughts about what Joey said?

 

Derrick Rose: Joey is going to be Joey, everybody knows that. He was just in the arcade room, and I was asking him what he was thinking when he said that. And he was just playing around. If anyone knows, it wouldn’t be Joey.

 

I won't say he was talking out of his ass, I think Joey was just being a kid. I think he was just playing on the early "rumors" that Rose would be a Bull, and he thought he was some fun with the media, and pick the opposite. I see no harm, I just see a kid having a little fun.

 

Certainly no harm.

 

I think it would be hilarious if Dorsey ends up a Chicago Bull.

[Guest]

Most shocking news ever - Joey Dorsey was talking out of his ass:

 

Reporter: It’s not like Joey [Dorsey] doesn’t talk a lot, but he told us where you’re going yesterday. Have you spoken to him about it? Were you shocked when he came out and told you, you were going to Miami, Beasley to Chicago? What are your thoughts about what Joey said?

 

Derrick Rose: Joey is going to be Joey, everybody knows that. He was just in the arcade room, and I was asking him what he was thinking when he said that. And he was just playing around. If anyone knows, it wouldn’t be Joey.

 

I won't say he was talking out of his ass, I think Joey was just being a kid. I think he was just playing on the early "rumors" that Rose would be a Bull, and he thought he was some fun with the media, and pick the opposite. I see no harm, I just see a kid having a little fun.

 

Certainly no harm.

 

I think it would be hilarious if Dorsey ends up a Chicago Bull.

 

I don't think it'd be funny to see him on my favorite NBA team. It would be funny if he ends up on the Pistons.

[Jehrico]

Most shocking news ever - Joey Dorsey was talking out of his ass:

 

Reporter: It’s not like Joey [Dorsey] doesn’t talk a lot, but he told us where you’re going yesterday. Have you spoken to him about it? Were you shocked when he came out and told you, you were going to Miami, Beasley to Chicago? What are your thoughts about what Joey said?

 

Derrick Rose: Joey is going to be Joey, everybody knows that. He was just in the arcade room, and I was asking him what he was thinking when he said that. And he was just playing around. If anyone knows, it wouldn’t be Joey.

 

I won't say he was talking out of his ass, I think Joey was just being a kid. I think he was just playing on the early "rumors" that Rose would be a Bull, and he thought he was some fun with the media, and pick the opposite. I see no harm, I just see a kid having a little fun.

That's not just kid stuff. I still get a kick out of starting rumors at work just so I can see how long it takes before I hear the rumor from someone else and how much the rumor changes within a couple of days. It's really fun when you're in the Army to start rumors like "Battalion just got a tasking to send 5 people on to Iraq/Afganistan to support 12 month taskers, and they will be leaving in 90 days." Two days later, someone tries to tell you that 12 people are going to be gone within a month and everyone is freaking out because we're already short handed as it is.

[Tyrant]

It's really fun when you're in the Army to start rumors like "Battalion just got a tasking to send 5 people on to Iraq/Afganistan to support 12 month taskers, and they will be leaving in 90 days." Two days later, someone tries to tell you that 12 people are going to be gone within a month and everyone is freaking out because we're already short handed as it is.

 

I'll take your word for it.