MacPhail: Deal is dead (p. 297), stop posting, go outside

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Someone put this thread out of its misery. Please. It's like Julio Franco.

Incorrect -- Julio Franco once provided value

[DenverCubs]

I really hope the inaccuracy is that Marshall isn't included. If he stays, we basically have the same rotation as last year. Lilly could (probably will be) a little worse, Z and Hill could be a little better, Marquis is himself and there's no reason to think Marshall won't improve a little too. Throw Dempster back in the pen and our pitching staff is still one of the 3 or 4 best in the league. With the few improvements on offense (Fukudome and Roberts w/ DeRosa HOPEFULLY @ SS and an entire year of Soto at half of his 2007 self) and I like our team for next year. I'm so optimistic. Edited January 9, 2008 by DenverCubs

[CUBBIEblue16]

But theyre not, this board needs to realize this. Marshall and Gallagher in the rotation together at the same time, is in fact worse than Dempster and Marquis. Good lord at some of you people.

 

Care to elaborate?

 

Yes, people on this board need to take the blue tinted sunglasses off and realize this deal is a steal for us. We getting one of the best leadoff men in baseball, an all-star and another great club house guy for pretty much nothing. You guys are blowing your loads over the 2 pitching prospects that have showed us NOTHING.

[David]

Alright, now I'm starting to get scared.

 

Hendry, you better not be screwing us royally again.

 

You know, the package could be a better one for us and not them.

 

:)

[jersey cubs fan]

When he says is is very inaccurate, I hope it's because the player's going the Orioles way aren't named Cedeno or Gallagher.

 

I think Gallagher goes in any deal..he's the centerpiece of it all.

 

Orioles fans think that at most a name might be wrong. Other than that, they believe that MacPhail is just bluffing saying that the deal isn't official, which of course it's not. But they believe it is complete. The administrator of the site has checked with 2 different of his own sources and confirmed the deal (both sources said 100%) and he apparently doesn't post anything unless he's completely sure he won't be wrong, unlike the other insiders.

 

Alright, so his neck is on the line. I really don't care either way, I hope this thing just ends one way or the other now.

 

In what way shape or form is his neck on the line? This isn't some journalist who runs the risk of losing credibility if he's wrong. So a handful of Cubs fans on a message board are going to think about maybe stop believing this guy is all that great a source of information. I don't see how that equates to putting his neck on the line.

[jersey cubs fan]

But theyre not, this board needs to realize this. Marshall and Gallagher in the rotation together at the same time, is in fact worse than Dempster and Marquis. Good lord at some of you people.

 

Care to elaborate?

 

Yes, people on this board need to take the blue tinted sunglasses off and realize this deal is a steal for us. We getting one of the best leadoff men in baseball, an all-star and another great club house guy for pretty much nothing. You guys are blowing your loads over the 2 pitching prospects that have showed us NOTHING.

 

You really have no business making this claim.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

But theyre not, this board needs to realize this. Marshall and Gallagher in the rotation together at the same time, is in fact worse than Dempster and Marquis. Good lord at some of you people.

 

Care to elaborate?

 

Yes, people on this board need to take the blue tinted sunglasses off and realize this deal is a steal for us. We getting one of the best leadoff men in baseball, an all-star and another great club house guy for pretty much nothing. You guys are blowing your loads over the 2 pitching prospects that have showed us NOTHING.

Care to elaborate?

[CubColtPacer]

I really hope the inaccuracy is that Marshall isn't included. If he stays, we basically have the same rotation as last year. Lilly could (probably will be) a little worse, Z and Hill could be a little better, Marquis is himself and there's no reason to think Marshall won't improve a little too. Throw Dempster back in the pen and our pitching staff is still one of the 3 or 4 best in the league. With the few improvements on offense (Fukudome and Roberts w/ DeRosa HOPEFULLY @ SS and an entire year of Soto at half of his 2007 self) and I like our team for next year. I'm so optimistic.

 

My best realistic hope is that Marshall is out and Patterson is in, but I think if I had to peg 1 name to be wrong it would be Marshall, and if I had to replace him it probably would be Murton.

 

BTW, here is a Phil Rogers blog detailing the same things:

 

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/01/looking-like-a.html

[fromthestretch]

You can make this trade look really bad for the Cubs.

 

 

Two of the Cubs biggest problems were offense at SS and starting pitching depth, particularly at the backend. So we solved this by trading our most MLB ready SS prospect and two starting pitchers for an admitted steroid user at a position that we were very set at.

 

Cedeno's been to the majors more than once, and has been less than impressive each time. I'm not so concerned with giving him up.

 

2005 Ronny Cedeno says hello. :lol:

 

I wouldn't have too much of a problem with him being included in this trade if the Cubs weren't also dealing away one solid starting pitcher and a pitching prospect who could have possibly been better than Marquis and Dempster this season.

 

But theyre not, this board needs to realize this. Marshall and Gallagher in the rotation together at the same time, is in fact worse than Dempster and Marquis. Good lord at some of you people.

 

Lighten up, Francis.

 

Assuming his arm is sound, Marshall is no worse (and is most likely better) than Marquis. In his career as a starter, Dempster has a 4.99 ERA and a 1.57 WHIP in just under 1000 innings. When you consider that Dempster hasn't made a start in over two seasons...well, it's farily obvious he should not be a legitimate candidate for the job. I'm very confident that Gallagher could do better than that.

 

I really don't have a problem with Marquis as the fifth starter, but having both him and Dempster in the rotation would be a horrible decision.

[DenverCubs]

But theyre not, this board needs to realize this. Marshall and Gallagher in the rotation together at the same time, is in fact worse than Dempster and Marquis. Good lord at some of you people.

 

Care to elaborate?

 

Yes, people on this board need to take the blue tinted sunglasses off and realize this deal is a steal for us. We getting one of the best leadoff men in baseball, an all-star and another great club house guy for pretty much nothing. You guys are blowing your loads over the 2 pitching prospects that have showed us NOTHING.

 

You really have no business making this claim.

 

Sean Marshall had a 119 ERA+ last year. That is a quantifiable "thing"... not a no"thing"

[CubinNY]

But theyre not, this board needs to realize this. Marshall and Gallagher in the rotation together at the same time, is in fact worse than Dempster and Marquis. Good lord at some of you people.

 

Care to elaborate?

We getting one of the best leadoff men in baseball

Not a position on a baseball field.

an all-star

Every team gets one and they are voted on by the fans.

and another great club house guy

How many wins is that good for?

for pretty much nothing

All three of those players are arguably better than those who are starting in front of them:

Cedeno>Theriot

Marshall>Marquis

Gallagher>Dempster

 

That's not to say I'm dead set against this deal but seriously, free your mind and your body will follow.

[fromthestretch]

But theyre not, this board needs to realize this. Marshall and Gallagher in the rotation together at the same time, is in fact worse than Dempster and Marquis. Good lord at some of you people.

 

Care to elaborate?

 

Yes, people on this board need to take the blue tinted sunglasses off and realize this deal is a steal for us. We getting one of the best leadoff men in baseball, an all-star and another great club house guy for pretty much nothing. You guys are blowing your loads over the 2 pitching prospects that have showed us NOTHING.

 

Marshall showed last year he was better than Marquis. But you go ahead with blowing things out of proportion...that always helps the debate.

[Vanilla Ice]

BTW, one of the insiders who rarely posts just chimed in, and he leads support to what navigator said on the previous page along with why MacPhail might have said that it was "very inaccurate"

 

I just got an email that the names coming in might not be what has been reported.

 

Once again, put a lot of credence in this or none at all. It's certainly subject to change, as this whole strange process has a few times.

 

Even if iwere to put credence into the post, it doesn't say much. He's basically saying, "One of the names might or might not be what we actually end up if the trade actually goes down."

[Rob]

But theyre not, this board needs to realize this. Marshall and Gallagher in the rotation together at the same time, is in fact worse than Dempster and Marquis. Good lord at some of you people.

 

Care to elaborate?

 

Yes, people on this board need to take the blue tinted sunglasses off and realize this deal is a steal for us. We getting one of the best leadoff men in baseball, an all-star and another great club house guy for pretty much nothing. You guys are blowing your loads over the 2 pitching prospects that have showed us NOTHING.

 

Ok, stop referring to him as a leadoff man already. There is absolutely no such thing. Roberts plays 2nd base, not some artificial lineup position with imaginary responsibilities.

[Keener98]

Ok so Im getting ready to go to bed, and I fully expect this trade may or may not be done by the time I wake up around 3:30 pm. I hope Im right.

[Ender]

Sean Marshall had a 119 ERA+ last year. That is a quantifiable "thing"... not a no"thing"

 

Well ERA is a terrible way to judge a pitcher over a partial season so it basically is nothing. If you look at peripherals they were just about the same guy last year with Marshall being just a tiny bit better. Of course Marshall is a 25 year old rookie who has shown flashes of much better skills and Marquis is a 29 year old who probably won't get any better.

[Vanilla Ice]

At this point, if the trade actually happens a Brian Roberts thread will have gone past 100 pages

[Bull]

But theyre not, this board needs to realize this. Marshall and Gallagher in the rotation together at the same time, is in fact worse than Dempster and Marquis. Good lord at some of you people.

 

Care to elaborate?

 

Yes, people on this board need to take the blue tinted sunglasses off and realize this deal is a steal for us. We getting one of the best leadoff men in baseball, an all-star and another great club house guy for pretty much nothing. You guys are blowing your loads over the 2 pitching prospects that have showed us NOTHING.

 

Ok, stop referring to him as a leadoff man already. There is absolutely no such thing. Roberts plays 2nd base, not some artificial lineup position with imaginary responsibilities.

While I agree that I'd rather have the better second baseman than the better "leadoff hitter", leadoff is not artificial. Stolen bases are overrated but OBP in the number one slot is not.

 

Getting Roberts extra 40 points of OBP over Soriano in the one slot, and Sorianos extra 140 points of slugging (although you lose 40 points of OBP) lower in the order.

 

My only problem is why not just put Derosa in the leadoff slot and hang onto the prospects?

[UMFan83]

Chicagosports.com has the Roberts trade on the front page but the link doesnt work.

[Ryno is God 23]

Chicagosports.com has the Roberts trade on the front page but the link doesnt work.

 

It was working. It was a blog by Phil Rogers.

[The Voice of Reason]

Even Phil Rogers sees the potential downside of trading Gallagher and Marshall.

 

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/01/looking-like-a.html

 

With Ryan Dempster moving to the starting rotation, the Cubs can arguably afford to give up on Marshall, who compiled an impressive 3.92 ERA in 103 innings last season. But having already non-tendered Mark Prior and expressed a willingness to include Gallagher in this deal, the addition of Marshall to the package would further erode the depth of starting pitching in the system.

 

Jason Marquis and Dempster project at the most likely 4-5 starters for Lou Piniella. If Marshall and Gallagher were both traded to Baltimore, the cast behind them would be headed by the fragile Angels Guzman and unproven prospects Donald Veal, Jeff Samardzija, Adam Harben and Jose Ascanio. There are still some serviceable free-agent pitchers on the market, including Josh Fogg, Livan Hernandez, Bartolo Colon, Kyle Lohse and Jason Jennings.

[UMFan83]

BTW, I hope the trade is Marshall out and Murton in. It makes much more sense for the Cubs to trade Murton rather than Marshall and I would assume they are comparable in value to most teams. I love Murt but JH has made it so there is no place on the team for him.

[BigbadB]

Care to elaborate?

 

Yes, people on this board need to take the blue tinted sunglasses off and realize this deal is a steal for us. We getting one of the best leadoff men in baseball, an all-star and another great club house guy for pretty much nothing. You guys are blowing your loads over the 2 pitching prospects that have showed us NOTHING.

 

I'm not sure how a lead off man has anything to do with Marquis and Dempster being better than Marshall and Gallagher in the rotation. So, I'd argue that you didn't really elaborate this for me at all.

 

A guy is not wearing blue tinted sunglasses in believing that Sean Gallagher would be better in the rotation than either Marquis or Dempster. If you are basing your argument on how Mr. Gallagher performed at the major league level last year, then you are ignoring how impressive each stop of his minor league career has been. Gallagher has a career minor league ERA of 2.75. The man just turned 22 a little over a week ago. He is going to be a solid starter at the major league level, and he has a darn good chance of being better than either Marquis and/or Dempster in 2008.

 

Sean Marshall was better than Marquis last year. Dempster hasn't even seen the rotation in how many years?

[DenverCubs]

Sean Marshall had a 119 ERA+ last year. That is a quantifiable "thing"... not a no"thing"

 

Well ERA is a terrible way to judge a pitcher over a partial season so it basically is nothing. If you look at peripherals they were just about the same guy last year with Marshall being just a tiny bit better. Of course Marshall is a 25 year old rookie who has shown flashes of much better skills and Marquis is a 29 year old who probably won't get any better.

 

All I was saying is that Marshall has shown, in one half of a season, that he can be a little better than league average. For a 4th or 5th starter, that's a good thing. Also, I would not say ERA is terrible...it's maybe not good...there are much better stats...but it isn't terrible. Anycrap, Marshall has value. So does the other Sean, and if we weren't short on quality starting pitchers and SS's, this would be an OK trade. Since we are both of those things, and we have DeRosa, some people think we're giving up too much.

[Bull]

Chicagosports.com has the Roberts trade on the front page but the link doesnt work.

NOt working for me either, but it was literally 5 minutes ago...and to be clear the headline doesn't say it happened but that its likely.