Jacque on the block; Pie to stay

[NewUserName]

I am fine with Pie as long as Izturus is not allowed to hold a bat for the rest of the season.

 

 

I agree with this. I think the solution may be bringing up Fontenot, doing whatever with Izturis and trading Jones.

[SouthSideRyan]

Also, at the end of the column,

 

Finally, Jay Leno reported this week: "Statistics show that in a lifetime, the average person sheds 120 pints of tears. Double that if you're a Cubs fan."

 

I won't miss that guy when Conan takes over next year.

 

He's right, though.

 

My favorite Leno Cubs joke is "Tiger Woods had a long layover in Chicago today. While he was waiting, he beat the Cubs 1-0."

 

My favorite Leno joke is...I got nothin.

[cubweiser03]

Not only is jones going to be more productive than Pie this year but in this market he is a good value. $5M for him is great for his productivity and you get him for another $5M next year.

 

So far this year his BB/K ratio has really improved and his ISOD is 17 points higher than his career average. I wouldnt be in a hurry to trade him.

[jersey cubs fan]

Not only is jones going to be more productive than Pie this year but in this market he is a good value. $5M for him is great for his productivity and you get him for another $5M next year.

 

So far this year his BB/K ratio has really improved and his ISOD is 17 points higher than his career average. I wouldnt be in a hurry to trade him.

 

$5m is decent if he produces at last year's clip. It sucks if you get what you got in his worst years.

 

"This market" has been pitching heavy anyway. Mediocre hitters are not nearly as overpaid as mediocre pitchers.

[CubColtPacer]

Not only is jones going to be more productive than Pie this year but in this market he is a good value. $5M for him is great for his productivity and you get him for another $5M next year.

 

So far this year his BB/K ratio has really improved and his ISOD is 17 points higher than his career average. I wouldnt be in a hurry to trade him.

 

$5m is decent if he produces at last year's clip. It sucks if you get what you got in his worst years.

 

"This market" has been pitching heavy anyway. Mediocre hitters are not nearly as overpaid as mediocre pitchers.

 

I would disagree-5 million is market value if you get Jacque's bad years, and better than market value if you get some of his good years. Here are the right fielders making around 5 million (between 4 and 6) and last year's OPS:

 

Randy Winn-.720

Eric Byrnes: .795

Jose Guillen: .674

Juan Encarnacion: .760

Jay Payton: .743

 

Jacque is one of the best mid-range guys out there.

[Backtobanks]

Not only is jones going to be more productive than Pie this year but in this market he is a good value. $5M for him is great for his productivity and you get him for another $5M next year.

 

So far this year his BB/K ratio has really improved and his ISOD is 17 points higher than his career average. I wouldnt be in a hurry to trade him.

 

$5m is decent if he produces at last year's clip. It sucks if you get what you got in his worst years.

 

"This market" has been pitching heavy anyway. Mediocre hitters are not nearly as overpaid as mediocre pitchers.

 

I would disagree-5 million is market value if you get Jacque's bad years, and better than market value if you get some of his good years. Here are the right fielders making around 5 million (between 4 and 6) and last year's OPS:

 

Randy Winn-.720

Eric Byrnes: .795

Jose Guillen: .674

Juan Encarnacion: .760

Jay Payton: .743

 

Jacque is one of the best mid-range guys out there.

 

I agree, I wish people would quit raggin on Jones. I hope they can trade him, but he has done at least as much as anyone expected and probably much more than most expected. As you mentioned, $5 million per year for a mid-range OF isn't a bad deal.

[jersey cubs fan]

I agree, I wish people would quit raggin on Jones. I hope they can trade him, but he has done at least as much as anyone expected and probably much more than most expected. As you mentioned, $5 million per year for a mid-range OF isn't a bad deal.

 

The thing I hate most about Jacque is that Hendry signed him when the Cubs needed so much more. I don't hate him like I hated Neifi and others. His OBP deficiency just makes the Cubs biggest problem all that much more of a problem. In his 7 months as a Cub his total numbers are pretty much right in line with expectations.

[jmajew]

The more I think about it, Jones should be out starting CF right now. Pie should spend one more year in the minors. If at the trade deadline we can trade Jones for something useful, fine, but there is no reason to rush this.

[imb]

Also, at the end of the column,

 

Finally, Jay Leno reported this week: "Statistics show that in a lifetime, the average person sheds 120 pints of tears. Double that if you're a Cubs fan."

 

I won't miss that guy when Conan takes over next year.

 

He's right, though.

 

My favorite Leno Cubs joke is "Tiger Woods had a long layover in Chicago today. While he was waiting, he beat the Cubs 1-0."

 

My favorite Leno joke is...I got nothin.

 

When the Bullets became the Wizards, this made me laugh.

 

"Deciding to downplay a connection to violence, the Washington Bullets have dropped the "Bullets" name. From now on they will just be called the Bullets."

 

He didn't write it, though.

[Elrhino]

I would still wait another month before shipping Jacque. For one thing, it allows us to get a better evaluation of how ready Pie is, and secondly I think teams like the Braves might get more and more interested as the season goes on and their corner OF problems become more obvious.

[CubbieSouthpaw]

The more I think about it, Jones should be out starting CF right now. Pie should spend one more year in the minors. If at the trade deadline we can trade Jones for something useful, fine, but there is no reason to rush this.

 

Not that I disagree with you. But at the trading deadline and the Cubs are in the hunt, I don't believe Hendry will trade Jones. Unless its for upper level salary dump by the other team.

[mg420]

I agree, I wish people would quit raggin on Jones. I hope they can trade him, but he has done at least as much as anyone expected and probably much more than most expected. As you mentioned, $5 million per year for a mid-range OF isn't a bad deal.

 

The thing I hate most about Jacque is that Hendry signed him when the Cubs needed so much more. I don't hate him like I hated Neifi and others. His OBP deficiency just makes the Cubs biggest problem all that much more of a problem. In his 7 months as a Cub his total numbers are pretty much right in line with expectations.

 

he has still turned out to be a much better deal than either bradley or giles at this point. if i recall correctly many people on this board were blasting hendry for signing jones instead of one of those 2 who were touted as "must have's" by the armchair gm's.

[sunnydoo]

I think we should stay with the 11 man staff and get rid of Ohman.

 

Move Soriano to 2b and go with something like this.

 

 

Pie

Soriano

Lee

ARam

Floyd

Barrett

JJ

Izturis

Pitcher

 

Bench- Ward, DeRosa, Murton, Cedeno, Blanco, Theriot

[B]

I think we should stay with the 11 man staff and get rid of Ohman.

 

Move Soriano to 2b and go with something like this.

 

 

Pie

Soriano

Lee

ARam

Floyd

Barrett

JJ

Izturis

Pitcher

 

Bench- Ward, DeRosa, Murton, Cedeno, Blanco, Theriot

 

That's bad on so many levels.

[sunnydoo]

That's bad on so many levels.

 

well, its not the greatest, but it passes the time to use JJ later on for trade bait if we need to by creating another space in the OF.

 

Lou has to do something to get ARam some protection. I really think Floyd is the only alternative for that. Barrett has been horrific and now has a sub 7 OPS, which clearly isnt getting it done.

 

Theriot has been great and i would love for him to have a spot in the starting lineup, but i am not sold on him for a regular everyday SS. He lacks arm and range. Could move him to 2b until DeRosa gets it figured out, but doesnt help the OF situation at all.

 

Really if Izturis isnt the option at SS right now, the logical alternative on the team is Cedeno, ie if we dont go target a SS outside the system. Would like to see him get another chance at the everyday job. I think he just had a bad year last season with the glove.

 

Murton could start, especially against lefties, a couple of times a week by subbing for the OFs. DeRosa could spell ARam and Soriano when needed.

 

Problem is only 1 lefty bat off the bench with this scenario. But like i said, just a stop gap until we find out if it is a SS, SP, or C that we need to go out and get to make the team better.

[A New Era]

Aram is batting .283 with a .356 OBP, .511 SLG. 5 HR's, and 17 RBI's.

 

He needs "protection", how?

 

And since going back to LF Soriano has already made 2 outfeild assists and he's hot with the bat right now. Don't move him to 2B where he will most likely completely blow, and it could cause him to go on a funk offensively because of it.

 

Soriano should be in LF for the rest of the year. It's between Pie and Jones (or I'd pray for Cedeno). But at this time I'd send Pie down. Because if Jonesy can handle CF pretty well, his bat adds even more potency to this line-up.

 

Jones and Barret are both capable #5 hitters. So is Floyd for that matter. What is it with some people that don't beleive we have a "#5 hitter"? I think of the three I named, they are probably just about at average #'s for "#5 hitters".

[soccer10k]

Move Soriano to 2b and go with something like this.

 

They're not moving Soriano to 2B.

[muntjack]

The only thing I always wonder about is if it drives away some of the people that this board would like to have as members because it appears so much like talk radio trade proposals. While they are sarcastic, someone who hasn't read the board for a long time might not know that, especially when they see it multiple times in different threads.

 

very good point

 

I was thinking that too. Then I realized anyone who can't pick up the sarcasm in a Jacque Jones and Cesar Izturis for ARod trade, is a moron and I don't care if they are apart of NSBB. Now if you wanna talk about the joke being overused, I can get on board with that.

 

On sports talk radio though and several message boards I've seen, people propose trades like that all the time-and they are completely serious.

This board isn't exactly immune from that sort of thing http://www.northsidebaseball.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?p=1296556#1296556

 

 

Excuse me, but what exactly is crazy about that? Salty's stock has fallen considerably. If you disagree with the idea, fine. Don't imply that I don't know what I'm talking about, please.

[NewUserName]

Aram is batting .283 with a .356 OBP, .511 SLG. 5 HR's, and 17 RBI's.

 

He needs "protection", how?

 

And since going back to LF Soriano has already made 2 outfeild assists and he's hot with the bat right now. Don't move him to 2B where he will most likely completely blow, and it could cause him to go on a funk offensively because of it.

 

Soriano should be in LF for the rest of the year. It's between Pie and Jones (or I'd pray for Cedeno). But at this time I'd send Pie down. Because if Jonesy can handle CF pretty well, his bat adds even more potency to this line-up.

 

Jones and Barret are both capable #5 hitters. So is Floyd for that matter. What is it with some people that don't beleive we have a "#5 hitter"? I think of the three I named, they are probably just about at average #'s for "#5 hitters".

 

 

Also similar to clutch hitting, protection is a myth

[mg420]

Aram is batting .283 with a .356 OBP, .511 SLG. 5 HR's, and 17 RBI's.

 

He needs "protection", how?

 

And since going back to LF Soriano has already made 2 outfeild assists and he's hot with the bat right now. Don't move him to 2B where he will most likely completely blow, and it could cause him to go on a funk offensively because of it.

 

Soriano should be in LF for the rest of the year. It's between Pie and Jones (or I'd pray for Cedeno). But at this time I'd send Pie down. Because if Jonesy can handle CF pretty well, his bat adds even more potency to this line-up.

 

Jones and Barret are both capable #5 hitters. So is Floyd for that matter. What is it with some people that don't beleive we have a "#5 hitter"? I think of the three I named, they are probably just about at average #'s for "#5 hitters".

 

 

Also similar to clutch hitting, protection is a myth

 

just because they cannot be quantified doesn't mean they do not exist.

[Jehrico]

I think we should stay with the 11 man staff and get rid of Ohman.

 

Move Soriano to 2b and go with something like this.

 

 

Pie

Soriano

Lee

ARam

Floyd

Barrett

JJ

Izturis

Pitcher

 

Bench- Ward, DeRosa, Murton, Cedeno, Blanco, Theriot

 

Soriano can NOT play 2d base. You might as well put Murton at 2nd if you really want to free up some OF playing time, the overall defensive impact couldn't be any worse. Or, better yet, if you want to improve the offense by putting a crappy defender in the MIF, why not just keep Theriot at SS? The decline in IF defense with Theriot at SS and Derosa at 2B is much less than with Izturis at SS and Soriano at 2B. Plus the offense is better. Your lineup is perhaps the worst we could put out there. The only thing that it does is frees up playing time in the OF. The OF offense is actually worse in your lineup, and the IF defense and offense are also both worse. The only thing that doesn't suffer is OF defense. Actually, now that I think about that, we might be worse out there too with Floyd instead of Soriano in LF. That difference might be enough to cover the drop from Jones to Floyd in RF.

[NewUserName]

Aram is batting .283 with a .356 OBP, .511 SLG. 5 HR's, and 17 RBI's.

 

He needs "protection", how?

 

And since going back to LF Soriano has already made 2 outfeild assists and he's hot with the bat right now. Don't move him to 2B where he will most likely completely blow, and it could cause him to go on a funk offensively because of it.

 

Soriano should be in LF for the rest of the year. It's between Pie and Jones (or I'd pray for Cedeno). But at this time I'd send Pie down. Because if Jonesy can handle CF pretty well, his bat adds even more potency to this line-up.

 

Jones and Barret are both capable #5 hitters. So is Floyd for that matter. What is it with some people that don't beleive we have a "#5 hitter"? I think of the three I named, they are probably just about at average #'s for "#5 hitters".

 

 

Also similar to clutch hitting, protection is a myth

 

just because they cannot be quantified doesn't mean they do not exist.

 

 

They do, In a lot of baseball peoples false perceptions. Which like I wrote is myth.

[FergieJ31]

Aram is batting .283 with a .356 OBP, .511 SLG. 5 HR's, and 17 RBI's.

 

He needs "protection", how?

 

And since going back to LF Soriano has already made 2 outfeild assists and he's hot with the bat right now. Don't move him to 2B where he will most likely completely blow, and it could cause him to go on a funk offensively because of it.

 

Soriano should be in LF for the rest of the year. It's between Pie and Jones (or I'd pray for Cedeno). But at this time I'd send Pie down. Because if Jonesy can handle CF pretty well, his bat adds even more potency to this line-up.

 

Jones and Barret are both capable #5 hitters. So is Floyd for that matter. What is it with some people that don't beleive we have a "#5 hitter"? I think of the three I named, they are probably just about at average #'s for "#5 hitters".

 

 

Also similar to clutch hitting, protection is a myth

 

just because they cannot be quantified doesn't mean they do not exist.

 

 

They do, In a lot of baseball peoples false perceptions. Which like I wrote is myth.

 

mg is right. Just because we can't measure it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Like Bill James said, we might just be underestimating the density of the fog; the noise often swamps the signal.

 

All we can say for sure is that protection might genuinely exist in isolated instances; ultimately it's a matter of opinion.

[NewUserName]

Aram is batting .283 with a .356 OBP, .511 SLG. 5 HR's, and 17 RBI's.

 

He needs "protection", how?

 

And since going back to LF Soriano has already made 2 outfeild assists and he's hot with the bat right now. Don't move him to 2B where he will most likely completely blow, and it could cause him to go on a funk offensively because of it.

 

Soriano should be in LF for the rest of the year. It's between Pie and Jones (or I'd pray for Cedeno). But at this time I'd send Pie down. Because if Jonesy can handle CF pretty well, his bat adds even more potency to this line-up.

 

Jones and Barret are both capable #5 hitters. So is Floyd for that matter. What is it with some people that don't beleive we have a "#5 hitter"? I think of the three I named, they are probably just about at average #'s for "#5 hitters".

 

 

Also similar to clutch hitting, protection is a myth

 

just because they cannot be quantified doesn't mean they do not exist.

 

 

They do, In a lot of baseball peoples false perceptions. Which like I wrote is myth.

 

mg is right. Just because we can't measure it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Like Bill James said, we might just be underestimating the density of the fog; the noise often swamps the signal.

 

All we can say for sure is that protection might genuinely exist in isolated instances; ultimately it's a matter of opinion.

 

You are right. To say though that protection is some sort of key to successful baseball though is what is wrong. All studies have shown that it is very isolated.

 

A better agruement for this case may be to see if ARam bats significantly better with better hitters behind him.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

The only thing I always wonder about is if it drives away some of the people that this board would like to have as members because it appears so much like talk radio trade proposals. While they are sarcastic, someone who hasn't read the board for a long time might not know that, especially when they see it multiple times in different threads.

 

very good point

 

I was thinking that too. Then I realized anyone who can't pick up the sarcasm in a Jacque Jones and Cesar Izturis for ARod trade, is a moron and I don't care if they are apart of NSBB. Now if you wanna talk about the joke being overused, I can get on board with that.

 

On sports talk radio though and several message boards I've seen, people propose trades like that all the time-and they are completely serious.

This board isn't exactly immune from that sort of thing http://www.northsidebaseball.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?p=1296556#1296556

 

 

Excuse me, but what exactly is crazy about that? Salty's stock has fallen considerably. If you disagree with the idea, fine. Don't imply that I don't know what I'm talking about, please.

 

Salty's stock has fallen so much the Braves called him up to Atlanta.