Prior visits Yocum and Andrews; THT on Prior's Mechanics

[Laura]

Makes sense to me!

[Sarcastic]

At this point, I feel like it might be best if we collectively repressed all memories of Mark Prior until he can actually pitch in the major leagues again. I'll start coming up with alternate explanations for his scattered starts over the last couple of years.

[Andy]

I don't like thinking about these two anymore. When I imagine this year's team with Prior and Wood instead of Miller and Marquis, I want to break things. Or 05's team with a full year of Prior and Wood instead of Rusch/Williams/Mitre. Or 04's team with a full year of Prior and Wood instead of Rusch (admittedly good that season)/Mitre.

[Mephistopheles]

So posting this isn't a good idea?

Milwaukee Brewers          IP     H   R  ER   BB  SO  HR    ERA   BF  Pit-Str   GB-FB  GmSc  IR-IS
W Franklin                  6.1   6   3   3    4   7   1   5.02   29  102-61     5-7     52    - 
L Vizcaino                  0.2   0   0   0    0   1   0   9.51    2    5-4      0-1          2-0
L Estrella W (2-0)          1     0   0   0    0   0   0   1.35    3    7-6      2-1          0-0
M DeJean S (16)             1     0   0   0    0   0   0   3.99    3    6-4      3-0          0-0
Totals                      9     6   3   3    4   8   1          37  120-75    10-9          2-0 

Chicago Cubs               IP     H   R  ER   BB  SO  HR    ERA   BF  Pit-Str   GB-FB  GmSc  IR-IS
M Prior                     8     4   2   2    0  16   1   2.61   27  127-86     3-4     82    - 
J Borowski L (1-1)          1     2   3   3    1   1   1   2.61    6   24-12     1-1          0-0
Totals                      9     6   5   5    1  17   2          33  151-98     4-5          0-0 

[weis21]

Prior's soft?

 

Grass is green?

 

Only when it's uninjured.

 

classic....sadly that is......that it's classic

[Lockes Eye Scar]

Wasn't that his first start back in '04? 127 pitches, lol

[hitamprun]

priors been hurt the entire time. whatever the problem was, hes never gotten it fixed.

 

Well, after years of MRI's and visiting a myriad of dr's, they haven't found anything structural to fix. What are they supposed to do, make something up, so he can have surgery?

[Amazing_Grace]

I remember taking a fair amount of criticism here earlier in the Spring when I said something to the effect of "every season we hear Prior is going to be healthy, yet every season he somehow isn't, I'll believe he'll pitch when he's pitching in the regular season". In all seriousness, anyone who is seriously surprised by this news hasn't been paying attention the past 4 years.

 

I know I'll get crucified for saying this, but Prior is to the Cubs what Rick Ankiel was to the Cards. He's lost it completely, but a lot of fans seem to refuse to acknowledge that fact. He's out of chances as far as I'm concerned. The odds of Prior turning it around at this point are pretty low, and they get lower every week he spends on the DL. If he wants back on the major league team again, he has to show he can actually pitch and pitch effectively first. He needs to stay in the minors until and unless that happens.

[SouthSideRyan]

 

I know I'll get crucified for saying this, but Prior is to the Cubs what Rick Ankiel was to the Cards. He's lost it completely, but a lot of fans seem to refuse to acknowledge that fact. He's out of chances as far as I'm concerned. The odds of Prior turning it around at this point are pretty low, and they get lower every week he spends on the DL. If he wants back on the major league team again, he has to show he can actually pitch and pitch effectively first. He needs to stay in the minors until and unless that happens.

 

And the one good thing I'll ever say about Cards fans, sorry regulars, is that they don't go nuts and call Ankiel all sorts of names, make their amateur diagnoses, and make lame ass jokes every chance they get. Then again, the only Cards fans I get to hear from are ones that make the cut here, so that could be why they seem more rational and level headed.

[RichHillIsABeast]

This after Prior put up a little fuss about going to the minors. Geez, he didn't even make AAA without an injury.

 

If Prior is injured for a good part of this season, we just need to get rid of him. He's too expensive to keep hoping a miracle happens. :(

[soccer10k]

I just don't get it. Prior didn't really have any injury history to speak of prior to his MLB career right? Did Dusty really overuse him THAT much? I guess the answers don't much matter at this point.

 

Best of luck to Mark in whatever his future holds. :cry:

 

Well, he's got a business degree. I'm sure he can find a job in an office somewhere.

 

He had better make sure to remember to a cover sheet on his TPS reports.

[soccer10k]

It's a good thing I wasn't counting on Prior this year. It doesn't hurt as much.

[illiniguy]

It's a good thing I wasn't counting on Prior this year. It doesn't hurt as much.

It still hurts. This one will always hurt. This guy was our Clemens and we broke him. Unreal.

[Tracer Bullet]

Prior was not cut out to be a reliable major league pitcher, and we have 4 years of history to prove it. 07, IMO, was his last hurrah with the Cubs, and you can stick a fork in him.

 

That's quite a stretch.

 

Am I the only one who sees a pattern here? Tell me why a young pitcher, can't make it out of ST for four straight seasons ready to pitch in a big league game? Every year, he has had 5 months to rest, rehab, strengthen whatever, and he still can't get ready. How do the other guys do it? Please don't tell me he was overused by Dusty, that is the lamest excuse I have ever heard, and was 4 years ago. There are many pitchers, that have pitched 200+ innings year after year, and he has only done it once.

 

This guy is missing something, and it isn't talent, but talent doesn't matter if you can't take the ball.

 

He was overused by Dusty. Really overused.

[Andy]

It's a good thing I wasn't counting on Prior this year. It doesn't hurt as much.

It still hurts. This one will always hurt. This guy was our Clemens and we broke him. Unreal.

Wood was our Clemens. Prior was a better version of Maddux. Somehow we broke them both. :(

[UMFan83]

Thanks for having Prior throw 114 pitches in Game 2 of the NLCS with an 11-2 lead Dusty.

 

(Facts might be slightly off, I think it was something like that though)

[abuck1220]

Prior was not cut out to be a reliable major league pitcher, and we have 4 years of history to prove it. 07, IMO, was his last hurrah with the Cubs, and you can stick a fork in him.

 

That's quite a stretch.

 

Am I the only one who sees a pattern here? Tell me why a young pitcher, can't make it out of ST for four straight seasons ready to pitch in a big league game? Every year, he has had 5 months to rest, rehab, strengthen whatever, and he still can't get ready. How do the other guys do it? Please don't tell me he was overused by Dusty, that is the lamest excuse I have ever heard, and was 4 years ago. There are many pitchers, that have pitched 200+ innings year after year, and he has only done it once.

 

This guy is missing something, and it isn't talent, but talent doesn't matter if you can't take the ball.

 

boy, the anti-anti-pitch count people have such a rock solid argument.

 

when he was throwing 130 pitches per game they said it would never end up hurting him. now that he's hurt, they say it wasn't from the 130 pitch games.

 

infallable logic.

[Dr. Cub]

Prior was not cut out to be a reliable major league pitcher, and we have 4 years of history to prove it. 07, IMO, was his last hurrah with the Cubs, and you can stick a fork in him.

 

That's quite a stretch.

 

Am I the only one who sees a pattern here? Tell me why a young pitcher, can't make it out of ST for four straight seasons ready to pitch in a big league game? Every year, he has had 5 months to rest, rehab, strengthen whatever, and he still can't get ready. How do the other guys do it? Please don't tell me he was overused by Dusty, that is the lamest excuse I have ever heard, and was 4 years ago. There are many pitchers, that have pitched 200+ innings year after year, and he has only done it once.

 

This guy is missing something, and it isn't talent, but talent doesn't matter if you can't take the ball.

 

boy, the anti-anti-pitch count people have such a rock solid argument.

 

when he was throwing 130 pitches per game they said it would never end up hurting him. now that he's hurt, they say it wasn't from the 130 pitch games.

 

infallable logic.

 

I love this post.

[Lefty]

priors been hurt the entire time. whatever the problem was, hes never gotten it fixed.

 

Well, after years of MRI's and visiting a myriad of dr's, they haven't found anything structural to fix. What are they supposed to do, make something up, so he can have surgery?

 

BP's annual book said that Prior's injury was the same one Wood had in 2005. If you recall, Wood was OK last year early in his first few starts. That was after surgery. Then he lost it. Then Wood tried rehab without surgery and the jury is still out.

 

I suspect that Prior has had it with this routine the last few years and will take the surgical option. The Cubs won't mind because it will add one year to the control period.

 

While Wood postponed his surgery for the 2005 playoff "run," I think Prior will opt for surgery as soon as possible. His prognosis should be better than Wood's just because Wood's mechanics are so horrible. The better model might be Matt Morris who had the same surgery, was brought along slowly, then became serviceable. I would hope that Prior would be more than that because he was better than Morris. Can't have a Prior post without a helping of "hope."

[hitamprun]

Prior was not cut out to be a reliable major league pitcher, and we have 4 years of history to prove it. 07, IMO, was his last hurrah with the Cubs, and you can stick a fork in him.

 

That's quite a stretch.

 

Am I the only one who sees a pattern here? Tell me why a young pitcher, can't make it out of ST for four straight seasons ready to pitch in a big league game? Every year, he has had 5 months to rest, rehab, strengthen whatever, and he still can't get ready. How do the other guys do it? Please don't tell me he was overused by Dusty, that is the lamest excuse I have ever heard, and was 4 years ago. There are many pitchers, that have pitched 200+ innings year after year, and he has only done it once.

 

This guy is missing something, and it isn't talent, but talent doesn't matter if you can't take the ball.

 

He was overused by Dusty. Really overused.

 

Then your saying one year of 211 innings fried this guy? If that is the case, he was not meant to be a starting pitcher in the bigs.

 

It wasn't that long ago, starting pitchers would pitch every 4th day, compile 300+ innings per year, and complete 20+ games per year. Today, if you throw 200+, and have 4-5 complete games, you are abused.

[Exile on Waveland]

It's a good thing I wasn't counting on Prior this year. It doesn't hurt as much.

It still hurts. This one will always hurt. This guy was our Clemens and we broke him. Unreal.

 

Agreed. I wasn't counting on him -- hoping, of course -- nor did I really even expect much, sadly. But I can't help the melancholy reminiscence of Prior's 2003 and think what might have been. I thought Prior was as sure-fire as any young pitcher I'd seen. Damn Dusty and the ridiculous pitch counts.

[Sammy Sofa]

Prior was not cut out to be a reliable major league pitcher, and we have 4 years of history to prove it. 07, IMO, was his last hurrah with the Cubs, and you can stick a fork in him.

 

That's quite a stretch.

 

Am I the only one who sees a pattern here? Tell me why a young pitcher, can't make it out of ST for four straight seasons ready to pitch in a big league game? Every year, he has had 5 months to rest, rehab, strengthen whatever, and he still can't get ready. How do the other guys do it? Please don't tell me he was overused by Dusty, that is the lamest excuse I have ever heard, and was 4 years ago. There are many pitchers, that have pitched 200+ innings year after year, and he has only done it once.

 

This guy is missing something, and it isn't talent, but talent doesn't matter if you can't take the ball.

 

He was overused by Dusty. Really overused.

 

Then your saying one year of 211 innings fried this guy? If that is the case, he was not meant to be a starting pitcher in the bigs.

 

It wasn't that long ago, starting pitchers would pitch every 4th day, compile 300+ innings per year, and complete 20+ games per year. Today, if you throw 200+, and have 4-5 complete games, you are abused.

 

You're leaving out the fact it was his first full year and he was still very young. It's a general rule of thumb to not overextend brand new pitchers to a workload like that when they first show up.

[hitamprun]

priors been hurt the entire time. whatever the problem was, hes never gotten it fixed.

 

Well, after years of MRI's and visiting a myriad of dr's, they haven't found anything structural to fix. What are they supposed to do, make something up, so he can have surgery?

 

BP's annual book said that Prior's injury was the same one Wood had in 2005. If you recall, Wood was OK last year early in his first few starts. That was after surgery. Then he lost it. Then Wood tried rehab without surgery and the jury is still out.

 

I suspect that Prior has had it with this routine the last few years and will take the surgical option. The Cubs won't mind because it will add one year to the control period.

 

While Wood postponed his surgery for the 2005 playoff "run," I think Prior will opt for surgery as soon as possible. His prognosis should be better than Wood's just because Wood's mechanics are so horrible. The better model might be Matt Morris who had the same surgery, was brought along slowly, then became serviceable. I would hope that Prior would be more than that because he was better than Morris. Can't have a Prior post without a helping of "hope."

 

Prior did not have the same injury as Wood, he was diagnosed with a loose shoulder, which is quite common among pitchers.

 

You say he would take the surgery route, surgery for what ailment exactly?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

 

Then your saying one year of 211 innings fried this guy? If that is the case, he was not meant to be a starting pitcher in the bigs.

 

It wasn't that long ago, starting pitchers would pitch every 4th day, compile 300+ innings per year, and complete 20+ games per year. Today, if you throw 200+, and have 4-5 complete games, you are abused.

 

It's not the amount of innings, but the amount of pitches.

 

In 2003, Prior ranked third in Pitcher Abuse Points. Want to know who was first? That's right, Kerry Wood!

 

And that was through September. It doesn't include Prior's post season starts that further put strain on his arm.

 

You can read about pitcher abuse points here.

 

So, it's much more than innings pitched. It's the way those innings were accumulated and the amount of pitches in those innings.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

We're going to go through the Old Timer McGee threw 400 innings a season argument again, I guess?

 

Players in previous eras had much less talented hitters, and required less effort to make it through the non-dangerous portions of the lineup. They also in some instances had a higher mound, played a talent pool that didn't have blacks and/or foreign players. It's a poor, poor comparison.