Lou Piniella the New Cubs Manager

[cjbucks]

What is it that everyone hates about Larry Rothchild? What is it that you expect from a pitching coach? I dont have any problems with Larry, I hate that they signed Lou though he's way wrong for this team. A pitching coach can only do so much if he has a bunch of guys that arent listening and a bad manager thats going to make him look pretty bad. I have a feeling that most of the pitching problems with the Cubs were not due to Larry, at least I dont blame him.

 

I think he should suggest to them that maybe they could throw a strike once in a while? The # of base on balls our staff gave up this year is hard evidence of incompetence on someone's part. So I suggest to you that A) our pitchers all suck or B) our pitching coach/pitching philosophy sucks.

 

Id have to lean more toward A since a lot of our pitchers came from AA and probably shouldnt have even been there or never should have been resigned (like Rusch). You can try to tell someone how to throw a strike, try to show them but in the end the ball is in the pitchers hand not the pitching coach's. Rich Hill sure did make a big turn around from when he first was brought up till the end of the season, how much of that was Larry's coaching and how much of it was Hill making the proper mental adjustments on his own? Hard to say, Larry had alot of young unproven pitchers and some real big pieces of crap to work with this year, I dont blame him. Injuries happen and alot of them because of Bakers stupid desicions.

 

I hope for all of our sakes those who suggest that Dusty has been overiding and flat out ignoring Rotchschild are correct.

[CubColtPacer]

I might be wrong, but I thought it was reported (on here maybe by Bruce) that Dusty and Rothschild were often at odds and that Dusty often ignored Rothschild as to how to handle the staff in regards to leaving guys in to long,etc...

 

No, you have it right. Bruce confirmed that Dusty did not listen to Rothschild, and Larry was one of the only coaches who worked hard (I believe he said 1 of 2, but he didn't mention who the other one was). Everybody just has a different opinion on how much of a factor that was. I'm willing to see how he is this next year, but I can understand if some people are unwilling to give him another chance.

[Vinestal]

What is it that everyone hates about Larry Rothchild? What is it that you expect from a pitching coach? I dont have any problems with Larry, I hate that they signed Lou though he's way wrong for this team. A pitching coach can only do so much if he has a bunch of guys that arent listening and a bad manager thats going to make him look pretty bad. I have a feeling that most of the pitching problems with the Cubs were not due to Larry, at least I dont blame him.

 

I think he should suggest to them that maybe they could throw a strike once in a while? The # of base on balls our staff gave up this year is hard evidence of incompetence on someone's part. So I suggest to you that A) our pitchers all suck or B) our pitching coach/pitching philosophy sucks.

 

Id have to lean more toward A since a lot of our pitchers came from AA and probably shouldnt have even been there or never should have been resigned (like Rusch). You can try to tell someone how to throw a strike, try to show them but in the end the ball is in the pitchers hand not the pitching coach's. Rich Hill sure did make a big turn around from when he first was brought up till the end of the season, how much of that was Larry's coaching and how much of it was Hill making the proper mental adjustments on his own? Hard to say, Larry had alot of young unproven pitchers and some real big pieces of crap to work with this year, I dont blame him. Injuries happen and alot of them because of Bakers stupid desicions.

 

Larry has been the pitching coach for 5 years now. This year's batch of AA pitchers is only a small part of that issue. Control has been an issue every year.

 

Do you think that a new pitching coach would change that? I think throwing strikes has more to do with talent and ability than with coaching. If you didnt throw strikes in the minors your not going to be brought up and then shown by the pitching coach how to throw strikes and suddenly have pinpoint control. Control is an issue for most teams. You can be agressive in the strike zone and get the poop hammered out of you if you dont have good movement or deception with your pitches.

[badgercub]

I might be wrong, but I thought it was reported (on here maybe by Bruce) that Dusty and Rothschild were often at odds and that Dusty often ignored Rothschild as to how to handle the staff in regards to leaving guys in to long,etc...

 

I don't believe that. If they were at odds LR would've taken the 3 year deal that Detroit offered him last year...

 

Not necessarily. Detroit was not picked by anyone to do as well as they have this year, and the Cubs for all of their faults were picked to at least contend in their division this last year. Rothschild could have been looking at it from the perspective of, if the Cubs succeed, Dusty stays and he retains his job (I also thinks he has a good relationship with his pitchers) if they fail, he would have been the most likely to get a shot as interim manager if Dusty was fired.

[Keener98]

Levine just said payroll will probably jump to 115mil. Says Cubs would like to have Soriano for CF. Zito and Schmidt are possibilities. Says Piniella demands his players and coaches to take responsibility, unlike Dusty. Said if a catcher calls a bad sequence of pitches he will talk to the catcher(or the pitching coach, whoever is calling pitches) right after it happens to find out why it happened.

[Balsa]

I might be wrong, but I thought it was reported (on here maybe by Bruce) that Dusty and Rothschild were often at odds and that Dusty often ignored Rothschild as to how to handle the staff in regards to leaving guys in to long,etc...

 

No, you have it right. Bruce confirmed that Dusty did not listen to Rothschild, and Larry was one of the only coaches who worked hard (I believe he said 1 of 2, but he didn't mention who the other one was). Everybody just has a different opinion on how much of a factor that was. I'm willing to see how he is this next year, but I can understand if some people are unwilling to give him another chance.

Benny Cadahia?

[USSoccer]

The best thing I can say about Piniella is that if Hendry has a quality offseason it won't matter that he's our manager. If we get a typical Hendry offseason full of overpaying mediocre bench players and losing out on actual good players, then Piniella's flaws will be greatly magnified.

 

And, of course, if Ramirez walks. If that happens, we're pretty much hosed.

[Balsa]

Oh Bruce Levine, you silly man. Like Hendry will ever go after the top tier free agents...

[Bull]

And with that dubious hiring, the offseason is off to a crappy, crappy start.

 

Thank god for the Bears, otherwise I think I'd be holding a seppuku party.

 

Cub fans call it Harry Caray

[cjbucks]

What is it that everyone hates about Larry Rothchild? What is it that you expect from a pitching coach? I dont have any problems with Larry, I hate that they signed Lou though he's way wrong for this team. A pitching coach can only do so much if he has a bunch of guys that arent listening and a bad manager thats going to make him look pretty bad. I have a feeling that most of the pitching problems with the Cubs were not due to Larry, at least I dont blame him.

 

I think he should suggest to them that maybe they could throw a strike once in a while? The # of base on balls our staff gave up this year is hard evidence of incompetence on someone's part. So I suggest to you that A) our pitchers all suck or B) our pitching coach/pitching philosophy sucks.

 

Id have to lean more toward A since a lot of our pitchers came from AA and probably shouldnt have even been there or never should have been resigned (like Rusch). You can try to tell someone how to throw a strike, try to show them but in the end the ball is in the pitchers hand not the pitching coach's. Rich Hill sure did make a big turn around from when he first was brought up till the end of the season, how much of that was Larry's coaching and how much of it was Hill making the proper mental adjustments on his own? Hard to say, Larry had alot of young unproven pitchers and some real big pieces of crap to work with this year, I dont blame him. Injuries happen and alot of them because of Bakers stupid desicions.

 

Larry has been the pitching coach for 5 years now. This year's batch of AA pitchers is only a small part of that issue. Control has been an issue every year.

 

Do you think that a new pitching coach would change that? I think throwing strikes has more to do with talent and ability than with coaching. If you didnt throw strikes in the minors your not going to be brought up and then shown by the pitching coach how to throw strikes and suddenly have pinpoint control. Control is an issue for most teams. You can be agressive in the strike zone and get the poop hammered out of you if you dont have good movement or deception with your pitches.

 

If your pitching philosophy as a coach and as an organization was that you won't be in the majors until you can throw strikes on a semi consistent basis than yes I would expect to see more strikes. If a pitching coach can't help his pitchers learn to throw strikes then what good is he?

[thedaymen]

MSNBC is in on the act

 

They report a three year deal

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15254014/from/ET/

[Vinestal]

What is it that everyone hates about Larry Rothchild? What is it that you expect from a pitching coach? I dont have any problems with Larry, I hate that they signed Lou though he's way wrong for this team. A pitching coach can only do so much if he has a bunch of guys that arent listening and a bad manager thats going to make him look pretty bad. I have a feeling that most of the pitching problems with the Cubs were not due to Larry, at least I dont blame him.

 

I think he should suggest to them that maybe they could throw a strike once in a while? The # of base on balls our staff gave up this year is hard evidence of incompetence on someone's part. So I suggest to you that A) our pitchers all suck or B) our pitching coach/pitching philosophy sucks.

 

Id have to lean more toward A since a lot of our pitchers came from AA and probably shouldnt have even been there or never should have been resigned (like Rusch). You can try to tell someone how to throw a strike, try to show them but in the end the ball is in the pitchers hand not the pitching coach's. Rich Hill sure did make a big turn around from when he first was brought up till the end of the season, how much of that was Larry's coaching and how much of it was Hill making the proper mental adjustments on his own? Hard to say, Larry had alot of young unproven pitchers and some real big pieces of crap to work with this year, I dont blame him. Injuries happen and alot of them because of Bakers stupid desicions.

 

Larry has been the pitching coach for 5 years now. This year's batch of AA pitchers is only a small part of that issue. Control has been an issue every year.

 

Do you think that a new pitching coach would change that? I think throwing strikes has more to do with talent and ability than with coaching. If you didnt throw strikes in the minors your not going to be brought up and then shown by the pitching coach how to throw strikes and suddenly have pinpoint control. Control is an issue for most teams. You can be agressive in the strike zone and get the poop hammered out of you if you dont have good movement or deception with your pitches.

 

If your pitching philosophy as a coach and as an organization was that you won't be in the majors until you can throw strikes on a semi consistent basis than yes I would expect to see more strikes. If a pitching coach can't help his pitchers learn to throw strikes then what good is he?

 

I just dont think that a pitching coach's job is to make his pitchers throw strikes. I think there are plenty of things you can try to teach a player that migh help him with his control but in the end it comes down to having the talent and ability to make it happen.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

He wins manager of the year awards ever 6 years, and next season will be his next. OK, I give -- I'm drunk.

[Laura]

Cubs.com suggests there's an option for a fourth year.

[goonys evil twin]

What is it that everyone hates about Larry Rothchild? What is it that you expect from a pitching coach? I dont have any problems with Larry, I hate that they signed Lou though he's way wrong for this team. A pitching coach can only do so much if he has a bunch of guys that arent listening and a bad manager thats going to make him look pretty bad. I have a feeling that most of the pitching problems with the Cubs were not due to Larry, at least I dont blame him.

 

I think he should suggest to them that maybe they could throw a strike once in a while? The # of base on balls our staff gave up this year is hard evidence of incompetence on someone's part. So I suggest to you that A) our pitchers all suck or B) our pitching coach/pitching philosophy sucks.

 

Id have to lean more toward A since a lot of our pitchers came from AA and probably shouldnt have even been there or never should have been resigned (like Rusch). You can try to tell someone how to throw a strike, try to show them but in the end the ball is in the pitchers hand not the pitching coach's. Rich Hill sure did make a big turn around from when he first was brought up till the end of the season, how much of that was Larry's coaching and how much of it was Hill making the proper mental adjustments on his own? Hard to say, Larry had alot of young unproven pitchers and some real big pieces of crap to work with this year, I dont blame him. Injuries happen and alot of them because of Bakers stupid desicions.

 

Larry has been the pitching coach for 5 years now. This year's batch of AA pitchers is only a small part of that issue. Control has been an issue every year.

 

Do you think that a new pitching coach would change that? I think throwing strikes has more to do with talent and ability than with coaching. If you didnt throw strikes in the minors your not going to be brought up and then shown by the pitching coach how to throw strikes and suddenly have pinpoint control. Control is an issue for most teams. You can be agressive in the strike zone and get the poop hammered out of you if you dont have good movement or deception with your pitches.

 

If your pitching philosophy as a coach and as an organization was that you won't be in the majors until you can throw strikes on a semi consistent basis than yes I would expect to see more strikes. If a pitching coach can't help his pitchers learn to throw strikes then what good is he?

 

I just dont think that a pitching coach's job is to make his pitchers throw strikes. I think there are plenty of things you can try to teach a player that migh help him with his control but in the end it comes down to having the talent and ability to make it happen.

 

It certainly is part of his job. Isn't Larry's philosophy for pitchers to pitch for the strikeout? Does he not preach something akin to missing bats? The Cubs have long been league leaders in the K department, which suggests they have plenty of talent and ability. They've ignored the walk problem, both by hitters and pitchers, and that has hurt. Larry has been around for that ride.

 

If the pitching sucks during a pitching coach's reign, and he's got no control over that, then why give him a job in the first place?

[Mizzou]

Levine just said payroll will probably jump to 115mil. Says Cubs would like to have Soriano for CF. Zito and Schmidt are possibilities. Says Piniella demands his players and coaches to take responsibility, unlike Dusty. Said if a catcher calls a bad sequence of pitches he will talk to the catcher(or the pitching coach, whoever is calling pitches) right after it happens to find out why it happened.

I like every word of that, especially the part about Soriano in CF.

[Vinestal]

Cubs.com suggests there's an option for a fourth year.

 

Ugg great, I wouldnt think he will out live Hendry who will most likely be gone when his contract expires, which is after the 2008 season right?

[cjbucks]

What is it that everyone hates about Larry Rothchild? What is it that you expect from a pitching coach? I dont have any problems with Larry, I hate that they signed Lou though he's way wrong for this team. A pitching coach can only do so much if he has a bunch of guys that arent listening and a bad manager thats going to make him look pretty bad. I have a feeling that most of the pitching problems with the Cubs were not due to Larry, at least I dont blame him.

 

I think he should suggest to them that maybe they could throw a strike once in a while? The # of base on balls our staff gave up this year is hard evidence of incompetence on someone's part. So I suggest to you that A) our pitchers all suck or B) our pitching coach/pitching philosophy sucks.

 

Id have to lean more toward A since a lot of our pitchers came from AA and probably shouldnt have even been there or never should have been resigned (like Rusch). You can try to tell someone how to throw a strike, try to show them but in the end the ball is in the pitchers hand not the pitching coach's. Rich Hill sure did make a big turn around from when he first was brought up till the end of the season, how much of that was Larry's coaching and how much of it was Hill making the proper mental adjustments on his own? Hard to say, Larry had alot of young unproven pitchers and some real big pieces of crap to work with this year, I dont blame him. Injuries happen and alot of them because of Bakers stupid desicions.

 

Larry has been the pitching coach for 5 years now. This year's batch of AA pitchers is only a small part of that issue. Control has been an issue every year.

 

Do you think that a new pitching coach would change that? I think throwing strikes has more to do with talent and ability than with coaching. If you didnt throw strikes in the minors your not going to be brought up and then shown by the pitching coach how to throw strikes and suddenly have pinpoint control. Control is an issue for most teams. You can be agressive in the strike zone and get the poop hammered out of you if you dont have good movement or deception with your pitches.

 

If your pitching philosophy as a coach and as an organization was that you won't be in the majors until you can throw strikes on a semi consistent basis than yes I would expect to see more strikes. If a pitching coach can't help his pitchers learn to throw strikes then what good is he?

 

I just dont think that a pitching coach's job is to make his pitchers throw strikes. I think there are plenty of things you can try to teach a player that migh help him with his control but in the end it comes down to having the talent and ability to make it happen.

 

We could go on all afternoon but I think I'll just agree to disagree at this point :)

[goonys evil twin]

Cubs.com suggests there's an option for a fourth year.

 

Ugg great, I wouldnt think he will out live Hendry who will most likely be gone when his contract expires, which is after the 2008 season right?

 

I assume the Cubs would can Hendry if 2007 is a disaster, let him continue if it's mediocre, and extend him if it's good. I would hope if they go to a new GM, that guy would have a chance to hire whomever he wants at manager.

[frostwyrm]

Why is Lou Piniella only worth 3yrs/$9M when Dusty Baker was worth 4yrs/$14M? Has the market price for big name managers declined or was Dusty perceived as being that much better than Piniella?

[Backtobanks]

Cubs.com suggests there's an option for a fourth year.

 

Ugg great, I wouldnt think he will out live Hendry who will most likely be gone when his contract expires, which is after the 2008 season right?

 

If the Cubs get into the winning mode, I'm sure Hendry will be here for all of Piniella's contract.

[Roast]

Cubs.com suggests there's an option for a fourth year.

 

It says that on fox sports, also.

[C.C.]

I might be wrong, but I thought it was reported (on here maybe by Bruce) that Dusty and Rothschild were often at odds and that Dusty often ignored Rothschild as to how to handle the staff in regards to leaving guys in to long,etc...

 

I don't believe that. If they were at odds LR would've taken the 3 year deal that Detroit offered him last year...

 

Not necessarily. Detroit was not picked by anyone to do as well as they have this year, and the Cubs for all of their faults were picked to at least contend in their division this last year. Rothschild could have been looking at it from the perspective of, if the Cubs succeed, Dusty stays and he retains his job (I also thinks he has a good relationship with his pitchers) if they fail, he would have been the most likely to get a shot as interim manager if Dusty was fired.

 

That makes no sense. Turn down 3 year contract for a one year contract with a manager you are at odds with? Huh?

[Vinestal]

Goony's has some valid points, I had not heard those things about LR's pitching philosophies. Ive always been a big fan of LR I guess that why I try to defend him but I guess in the end the product on the field has not reflected well on him. I certainly would have understood if they didnt bring him back but Im not mad that they are.

[Andy]

Why is Lou Piniella only worth 3yrs/$9M when Dusty Baker was worth 4yrs/$14M? Has the market price for big name managers declined or was Dusty perceived as being that much better than Piniella?

We were probably helped by Piniella's awful Tampa teams, by the fact that he didn't manage last season, and by the fact that he'd pretty much eliminated any alternatives, whereas Dusty could have gone anywhere with a vacancy.