Lou Piniella the New Cubs Manager

[abuck1220]

ugh...looks like hendry's doesn't learn from his past mistakes. i didn't want piniella, but i don't really know that there was anyone out there that would have been that much better. and even if there was, i had no hope in hendry hiring that person.

 

basically, any optimism i have comes from the fact that the cubs could have a payroll that dwarfs the rest of the division, and they very well could win simply by outspending everyone. obviously with hendry in charge, there's bound to be some wasted $, but if you spend $115 mil you have to have a few good players in there...right??

 

in other words, the cubs could win in spite of hendry and piniella.

[goonys evil twin]

Why is Lou Piniella only worth 3yrs/$9M when Dusty Baker was worth 4yrs/$14M? Has the market price for big name managers declined or was Dusty perceived as being that much better than Piniella?

We were probably helped by Piniella's awful Tampa teams, by the fact that he didn't manage last season, and by the fact that he'd pretty much eliminated any alternatives, whereas Dusty could have gone anywhere with a vacancy.

 

Hendry mistakenly believed there was a market for Dusty, and since he was coming off a WS appearance, he was a hotter name. 3/9 was probably much closer to Dusty's actual worth at the time, since the Mets had no interest, and no other team got involved.

 

Piniella is coming off unemployment and 3 straight terrible seasons. There just isn't the hype to drive up the price. And as ndistops points out, there was no competition.

[UMFan83]

What time is the press conference? Since I have nothing to do tomorrow, I might wait out in front of Wrigley and chant "We want a winner" repeatedly for hours so he gets the picture of what he is getting into.

[ThePenguin11]

Levine just said payroll will probably jump to 115mil. Says Cubs would like to have Soriano for CF. Zito and Schmidt are possibilities. Says Piniella demands his players and coaches to take responsibility, unlike Dusty. Said if a catcher calls a bad sequence of pitches he will talk to the catcher(or the pitching coach, whoever is calling pitches) right after it happens to find out why it happened.

I like every word of that, especially the part about Soriano in CF.

 

Prepare to be bombarded by the "Soriano is overrated and sucks" faction. Last year the guy was a bum who didn't get on enough and was going to stink now that he's not in a hitters park and lo and behold...40/40.

[goonys evil twin]

Levine just said payroll will probably jump to 115mil. Says Cubs would like to have Soriano for CF. Zito and Schmidt are possibilities. Says Piniella demands his players and coaches to take responsibility, unlike Dusty. Said if a catcher calls a bad sequence of pitches he will talk to the catcher(or the pitching coach, whoever is calling pitches) right after it happens to find out why it happened.

I like every word of that, especially the part about Soriano in CF.

 

Prepare to be bombarded by the "Soriano is overrated and sucks" faction. Last year the guy was a bum who didn't get on enough and was going to stink now that he's not in a hitters park and low and behold...40/40.

 

Seriously, what is your problem with posters on this board?

 

Soriano is overrated. But he's still good. Most everybody on this board would be happy with him being here next year, especially when you consider the limited options. And, if he's in CF, all the better.

[Balsa]

Levine just said payroll will probably jump to 115mil. Says Cubs would like to have Soriano for CF. Zito and Schmidt are possibilities. Says Piniella demands his players and coaches to take responsibility, unlike Dusty. Said if a catcher calls a bad sequence of pitches he will talk to the catcher(or the pitching coach, whoever is calling pitches) right after it happens to find out why it happened.

I like every word of that, especially the part about Soriano in CF.

 

Prepare to be bombarded by the "Soriano is overrated and sucks" faction. Last year the guy was a bum who didn't get on enough and was going to stink now that he's not in a hitters park and lo and behold...40/40.

Contract year? If there's one guy it applies to it'd be Soriano....

 

Besides, I like Soriano in CF or at 2B. He's not over-rated there. I don't think anyone expects him to repeat this year, but even a modest decrease in numbers would be very respectable in CF or 2B.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Levine just said payroll will probably jump to 115mil. Says Cubs would like to have Soriano for CF. Zito and Schmidt are possibilities. Says Piniella demands his players and coaches to take responsibility, unlike Dusty. Said if a catcher calls a bad sequence of pitches he will talk to the catcher(or the pitching coach, whoever is calling pitches) right after it happens to find out why it happened.

I like every word of that, especially the part about Soriano in CF.

 

Prepare to be bombarded by the "Soriano is overrated and sucks" faction. Last year the guy was a bum who didn't get on enough and was going to stink now that he's not in a hitters park and low and behold...40/40.

 

Soriano is very much overrated, but I'd take him at 2B or CF in a heartbeat.

[UMFan83]

Levine just said payroll will probably jump to 115mil. Says Cubs would like to have Soriano for CF. Zito and Schmidt are possibilities. Says Piniella demands his players and coaches to take responsibility, unlike Dusty. Said if a catcher calls a bad sequence of pitches he will talk to the catcher(or the pitching coach, whoever is calling pitches) right after it happens to find out why it happened.

I like every word of that, especially the part about Soriano in CF.

 

Prepare to be bombarded by the "Soriano is overrated and sucks" faction. Last year the guy was a bum who didn't get on enough and was going to stink now that he's not in a hitters park and low and behold...40/40.

 

Seriously, what is your problem with posters on this board?

 

Soriano is overrated. But he's still good. Most everybody on this board would be happy with him being here next year, especially when you consider the limited options. And, if he's in CF, all the better.

 

I'd rather have Soriano then say Pierre, but for the cost and his career numbers, it would just be another slap in the face to the team's OBP woes. That said, I'd rather have the majority of the team's money going towards 1-2 starters, upgrading the bench (a lot) and then one above average offensive player at either CF or 2B, and if there is money left, a platoon for Jones (could also be part of bench players)

[badgercub]

I might be wrong, but I thought it was reported (on here maybe by Bruce) that Dusty and Rothschild were often at odds and that Dusty often ignored Rothschild as to how to handle the staff in regards to leaving guys in to long,etc...

 

I don't believe that. If they were at odds LR would've taken the 3 year deal that Detroit offered him last year...

 

Not necessarily. Detroit was not picked by anyone to do as well as they have this year, and the Cubs for all of their faults were picked to at least contend in their division this last year. Rothschild could have been looking at it from the perspective of, if the Cubs succeed, Dusty stays and he retains his job (I also thinks he has a good relationship with his pitchers) if they fail, he would have been the most likely to get a shot as interim manager if Dusty was fired.

 

That makes no sense. Turn down 3 year contract for a one year contract with a manager you are at odds with? Huh?

 

Why does that not make sense? did you not read it? Detroit was not picked to even get a sniff at the playoffs I believe they were picked to finish fourth behind the Sox, Twins, and Indians. The Cubs were picked to at least contend for their division, which means if they win Rothschild would be extended. If they lose Rothschild possibly has a chance to manage in the Big Leagues again. I think there is quite a bit of logic in that thought process. Tell me what doesn't make sense in the scenario I laid out.

 

I see where you are coming from with the guarantee of 3 years I just don't think it weighed as much as what the Cubs were predicted to do and what Detroit was predicted to do. It's easy to look at it in hindsight and say he should have taken the Detroit job.

Edited October 16, 2006 by badgercub

[goonys evil twin]

I'd rather have Soriano then say Pierre, but for the cost and his career numbers, it would just be another slap in the face to the team's OBP woes.

 

I don't think Hendry is going to improve OBP anyway. So, I'd rather he at least get some SLG, as well as guys who are above average in production for their position. Soriano in CF or 2B is almost a lock for above average production, and he'll bring SLG.

 

Plus, if a $115m payroll is true, it'll be easier to deal with overpaying him based on hype.

[ThePenguin11]

Levine just said payroll will probably jump to 115mil. Says Cubs would like to have Soriano for CF. Zito and Schmidt are possibilities. Says Piniella demands his players and coaches to take responsibility, unlike Dusty. Said if a catcher calls a bad sequence of pitches he will talk to the catcher(or the pitching coach, whoever is calling pitches) right after it happens to find out why it happened.

I like every word of that, especially the part about Soriano in CF.

 

Prepare to be bombarded by the "Soriano is overrated and sucks" faction. Last year the guy was a bum who didn't get on enough and was going to stink now that he's not in a hitters park and low and behold...40/40.

 

Seriously, what is your problem with posters on this board?

 

Soriano is overrated. But he's still good. Most everybody on this board would be happy with him being here next year, especially when you consider the limited options. And, if he's in CF, all the better.

 

If I recall correctly you were one of the guys saying Soriano sucks last year. A year ago people were saying you can't trade (name a worthless pitching prospect who we've waited for to pan out and still hasn't) for established players who's OBP is below .375 and people were lambasted at the suggestion. And for the record you're usually the only poster I tend to disagree because of your "I'm always right" attitude.

[abuck1220]

I'd rather have Soriano then say Pierre, but for the cost and his career numbers, it would just be another slap in the face to the team's OBP woes.

 

I don't think Hendry is going to improve OBP anyway. So, I'd rather he at least get some SLG, as well as guys who are above average in production for their position. Soriano in CF or 2B is almost a lock for above average production, and he'll bring SLG.

 

Plus, if a $115m payroll is true, it'll be easier to deal with overpaying him based on hype.

 

that's exactly why i have come around on soriano. two important components of a hitter are obp and slg. since it's become perfectly clear that hendry is not going to pay attention to obp, the best we can do is hope that he stumbles upon a guy with a good slg.

 

i'd rather get a no obp/good slg guy than a no obp/no slg guy with speed, heart, a good glove, spirit, bunting skills, and veteran presence.

[Southpaw191679666239]

basically, any optimism i have comes from the fact that the cubs could have a payroll that dwarfs the rest of the division, and they very well could win simply by outspending everyone. obviously with hendry in charge, there's bound to be some wasted $, but if you spend $115 mil you have to have a few good players in there...right??

 

Wasn't that the case in '06? I don't have the numbers in front of me, but off the top of my head, I can't imagine the other 5 teams had a bigger payroll. And what did that get us?

[Warpticon]

Levine just said payroll will probably jump to 115mil. Says Cubs would like to have Soriano for CF. Zito and Schmidt are possibilities. Says Piniella demands his players and coaches to take responsibility, unlike Dusty. Said if a catcher calls a bad sequence of pitches he will talk to the catcher(or the pitching coach, whoever is calling pitches) right after it happens to find out why it happened.

I like every word of that, especially the part about Soriano in CF.

 

Prepare to be bombarded by the "Soriano is overrated and sucks" faction. Last year the guy was a bum who didn't get on enough and was going to stink now that he's not in a hitters park and low and behold...40/40.

 

Seriously, what is your problem with posters on this board?

 

Soriano is overrated. But he's still good. Most everybody on this board would be happy with him being here next year, especially when you consider the limited options. And, if he's in CF, all the better.

 

If I recall correctly you were one of the guys saying Soriano sucks last year. A year ago people were saying you can't trade (name a worthless pitching prospect who we've waited for to pan out and still hasn't) for established players who's OBP is below .375 and people were lambasted at the suggestion. And for the record you're usually the only poster I tend to disagree because of your "I'm always right" attitude.

 

a) an attitude is a really stupid reason to disagree with the content of a statement.

b) You're mistaking "Soriano sucks" with "Soriano isn't likely worth the cost in players and contract that will be required to acquire his production, and he's been slipping for several years, and this team already has an abundance of players with low OBP." So it's rather disingenuous to link that attitude with a completely different situation a year later. He's not coming off consecutive down years; he had the best walk rate of his career; and most importantly, you don't have to trade to get him.

[Rob]

Levine just said payroll will probably jump to 115mil. Says Cubs would like to have Soriano for CF. Zito and Schmidt are possibilities. Says Piniella demands his players and coaches to take responsibility, unlike Dusty. Said if a catcher calls a bad sequence of pitches he will talk to the catcher(or the pitching coach, whoever is calling pitches) right after it happens to find out why it happened.

I like every word of that, especially the part about Soriano in CF.

 

Prepare to be bombarded by the "Soriano is overrated and sucks" faction. Last year the guy was a bum who didn't get on enough and was going to stink now that he's not in a hitters park and low and behold...40/40.

 

Seriously, what is your problem with posters on this board?

 

Soriano is overrated. But he's still good. Most everybody on this board would be happy with him being here next year, especially when you consider the limited options. And, if he's in CF, all the better.

 

If I recall correctly you were one of the guys saying Soriano sucks last year. A year ago people were saying you can't trade (name a worthless pitching prospect who we've waited for to pan out and still hasn't) for established players who's OBP is below .375 and people were lambasted at the suggestion. And for the record you're usually the only poster I tend to disagree because of your "I'm always right" attitude.

 

So because Soriano exceeded everybody's wildest expectations and the pitchers on our staff didn't come close to their talent, suddenly we were all stupid?

 

If you tell me that before the season you honestly believed Soriano would do anything near what he has done this year, I would be forced to call you a liar.

 

There was nothing in his track record to suggest he'd go from being merely a good or very good player to being a great one... and there's nothing to suggest he's established a new baseline level of performance for himself at the age of 30.

 

(BTW, he got caught stealing 17 times stealing, so his 41 steals mean jack squat. I'll give him credit for hitting the ball well enough to get 46 HR, but he wasn't stealing well enough to get 41 steals... he was simply attempting to steal often enough)

[abuck1220]

basically, any optimism i have comes from the fact that the cubs could have a payroll that dwarfs the rest of the division, and they very well could win simply by outspending everyone. obviously with hendry in charge, there's bound to be some wasted $, but if you spend $115 mil you have to have a few good players in there...right??

 

Wasn't that the case in '06? I don't have the numbers in front of me, but off the top of my head, I can't imagine the other 5 teams had a bigger payroll. And what did that get us?

 

yeah, it's pretty pathetic, isn't it?

 

i'm just saying the possibility exists that the cubs (especially given this rumored 15% bump in payroll) could, in theory, become to the nl central what the yankees are to the rest of baseball. sure, they hand out some dumb contracts, but those contracts don't cripple them the way they would other teams b/c they have so much to spend.

 

if the cubs had a 50 mil payroll, they would be the worst team in baseball with hendry as the gm.

[ThePenguin11]

Levine just said payroll will probably jump to 115mil. Says Cubs would like to have Soriano for CF. Zito and Schmidt are possibilities. Says Piniella demands his players and coaches to take responsibility, unlike Dusty. Said if a catcher calls a bad sequence of pitches he will talk to the catcher(or the pitching coach, whoever is calling pitches) right after it happens to find out why it happened.

I like every word of that, especially the part about Soriano in CF.

 

Prepare to be bombarded by the "Soriano is overrated and sucks" faction. Last year the guy was a bum who didn't get on enough and was going to stink now that he's not in a hitters park and low and behold...40/40.

 

Seriously, what is your problem with posters on this board?

 

Soriano is overrated. But he's still good. Most everybody on this board would be happy with him being here next year, especially when you consider the limited options. And, if he's in CF, all the better.

 

If I recall correctly you were one of the guys saying Soriano sucks last year. A year ago people were saying you can't trade (name a worthless pitching prospect who we've waited for to pan out and still hasn't) for established players who's OBP is below .375 and people were lambasted at the suggestion. And for the record you're usually the only poster I tend to disagree because of your "I'm always right" attitude.

 

So because Soriano exceeded everybody's wildest expectations and the pitchers on our staff didn't come close to their talent, suddenly we were all stupid?

 

If you tell me that before the season you honestly believed Soriano would do anything near what he has done this year, I would be forced to call you a liar.

 

There was nothing in his track record to suggest he'd go from being merely a good or very good player to being a great one... and there's nothing to suggest he's established a new baseline level of performance for himself at the age of 30.

 

(BTW, he got caught stealing 17 times stealing, so his 41 steals mean jack squat. I'll give him credit for hitting the ball well enough to get 46 HR, but he wasn't stealing well enough to get 41 steals... he was simply attempting to steal often enough)

 

I'm not saying anyone is stupid. My point last year was that he's a proven run-producer and difference maker and people (many people) had the nerve to say he wasn't because of ball park factor. I was also told that his because he was in an inferior lineup he wasn't going to hit as well or score as many runs. oops.

[ThePenguin11]

Levine just said payroll will probably jump to 115mil. Says Cubs would like to have Soriano for CF. Zito and Schmidt are possibilities. Says Piniella demands his players and coaches to take responsibility, unlike Dusty. Said if a catcher calls a bad sequence of pitches he will talk to the catcher(or the pitching coach, whoever is calling pitches) right after it happens to find out why it happened.

I like every word of that, especially the part about Soriano in CF.

 

Prepare to be bombarded by the "Soriano is overrated and sucks" faction. Last year the guy was a bum who didn't get on enough and was going to stink now that he's not in a hitters park and low and behold...40/40.

 

Seriously, what is your problem with posters on this board?

 

Soriano is overrated. But he's still good. Most everybody on this board would be happy with him being here next year, especially when you consider the limited options. And, if he's in CF, all the better.

 

If I recall correctly you were one of the guys saying Soriano sucks last year. A year ago people were saying you can't trade (name a worthless pitching prospect who we've waited for to pan out and still hasn't) for established players who's OBP is below .375 and people were lambasted at the suggestion. And for the record you're usually the only poster I tend to disagree because of your "I'm always right" attitude.

 

So because Soriano exceeded everybody's wildest expectations and the pitchers on our staff didn't come close to their talent, suddenly we were all stupid?

 

If you tell me that before the season you honestly believed Soriano would do anything near what he has done this year, I would be forced to call you a liar.

There was nothing in his track record to suggest he'd go from being merely a good or very good player to being a great one... and there's nothing to suggest he's established a new baseline level of performance for himself at the age of 30.

 

(BTW, he got caught stealing 17 times stealing, so his 41 steals mean jack squat. I'll give him credit for hitting the ball well enough to get 46 HR, but he wasn't stealing well enough to get 41 steals... he was simply attempting to steal often enough)

 

You can call me anything you want, but I may be forced to call you ignorant. I did believe that Soriano was capable of matching his best numbers, if not exceeding them, because he's still young and improving and I don't believe in park factor.

[goonys evil twin]

If I recall correctly you were one of the guys saying Soriano sucks last year. A year ago people were saying you can't trade (name a worthless pitching prospect who we've waited for to pan out and still hasn't) for established players who's OBP is below .375 and people were lambasted at the suggestion. And for the record you're usually the only poster I tend to disagree because of your "I'm always right" attitude.

 

I've said Soriano is overrated for a long time, and I maintain that. I've never said you can't trade for guys with OBPs below .375. I have said that if you are going to overpay for guys, at least do it with guys who stand a chance of being really good, or great. Soriano has been inconsistent. His production has varied greatly during this career, but since he achieved a level of notoriety on a WS champion Yankees team, he's been hailed as something he is not. He's not really worth $10 million, and his career pre 2006 proved that. If you think you'd have been happy paying $10m per year for the Soriano that played from 2001-2005, I'd bet otherwise.

 

FWIW, I've said many times that I realize "my way" is not the only way to win, but I disagree with the Hendry way, and those that like that sort of thing, because it means there is an inefficient use of resources. But, if you have a top 5 payroll, efficiency isn't as important.

[soccer10k]

Well, this just ruined my day.

[cjbucks]

What time is the press conference? Since I have nothing to do tomorrow, I might wait out in front of Wrigley and chant "We want a winner" repeatedly for hours so he gets the picture of what he is getting into.

 

I got the day off tomorrow also - but it's like a three hour drive :lol:

[ThePenguin11]

If I recall correctly you were one of the guys saying Soriano sucks last year. A year ago people were saying you can't trade (name a worthless pitching prospect who we've waited for to pan out and still hasn't) for established players who's OBP is below .375 and people were lambasted at the suggestion. And for the record you're usually the only poster I tend to disagree because of your "I'm always right" attitude.

 

I've said Soriano is overrated for a long time, and I maintain that. I've never said you can't trade for guys with OBPs below .375. I have said that if you are going to overpay for guys, at least do it with guys who stand a chance of being really good, or great. Soriano has been inconsistent. His production has varied greatly during this career, but since he achieved a level of notoriety on a WS champion Yankees team, he's been hailed as something he is not. He's not really worth $10 million, and his career pre 2006 proved that. If you think you'd have been happy paying $10m per year for the Soriano that played from 2001-2005, I'd bet otherwise.

 

FWIW, I've said many times that I realize "my way" is not the only way to win, but I disagree with the Hendry way, and those that like that sort of thing, because it means there is an inefficient use of resources. But, if you have a top 5 payroll, efficiency isn't as important.

 

That was an exaggeration for effect. I should have said .400 for more impact. Sarcasm. I'm a large supporter of OBP, but it's not my say-all-end-all. Bottom line is that it's only one of many, many statistics needed to evaluate a player.

[goonys evil twin]

You can call me anything you want, but I may be forced to call you ignorant. I did believe that Soriano was capable of matching his best numbers, if not exceeding them, because he's still young and improving and I don't believe in park factor.

 

You don't believe different parks affect players?

[cjbucks]

I'd rather have Soriano then say Pierre, but for the cost and his career numbers, it would just be another slap in the face to the team's OBP woes.

 

I don't think Hendry is going to improve OBP anyway. So, I'd rather he at least get some SLG, as well as guys who are above average in production for their position. Soriano in CF or 2B is almost a lock for above average production, and he'll bring SLG.

 

Plus, if a $115m payroll is true, it'll be easier to deal with overpaying him based on hype.

 

that's exactly why i have come around on soriano. two important components of a hitter are obp and slg. since it's become perfectly clear that hendry is not going to pay attention to obp, the best we can do is hope that he stumbles upon a guy with a good slg.

 

i'd rather get a no obp/good slg guy than a no obp/no slg guy with speed, heart, a good glove, spirit, bunting skills, and veteran presence.

 

I think Soriano is a much better option than Pierre in CF for probably not a whole lot more $ than what Pierre is going to go for. Having said that I would like to see him in the 5 hole as opposed to the 1 or 2 hole that he will probably end up hitting in.

[baseball7897]

Lou Piniella for president if Cubs win the World Series next year!!!

 

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2005/writers/jay_mohr/08/10/hot.read/p1_piniella.jpg