Prior to the DL? Also, Z to Make Next Start.

[Soul]

Why don't we just shut Prior down for the rest of the year so he can take as long as he wants to recover and let Hill start for the remainder of the year. Even if he gets shelled, just let him pitch for the rest of the year. Either he works his way though it and garners consideration for a starting spot next year, or he hit hard and we narrow down our potential options for starters next year. Either way, it gives the Cubs something to bank on.

 

I need to see something from Prior. How do we know if we shut him down he won't be too weak for ST next year and we start this whole thing all over again?

 

No, I'm against shutting Marky Mark down. He needs to come back and prove he can pitch. I'm in full Prior watch mode----no longer 100% convinced he will ever be back to what he was in '03. If he basically misses the ENTIRE SEASON this year because he got the flu 6 months ago???--then maybe I start shopping him a little in the offseason.

[soapy]

Why don't we just shut Prior down for the rest of the year so he can take as long as he wants to recover and let Hill start for the remainder of the year. Even if he gets shelled, just let him pitch for the rest of the year. Either he works his way though it and garners consideration for a starting spot next year, or he hit hard and we narrow down our potential options for starters next year. Either way, it gives the Cubs something to bank on.

 

I need to see something from Prior. How do we know if we shut him down he won't be too weak for ST next year and we start this whole thing all over again?

 

No, I'm against shutting Marky Mark down. He needs to come back and prove he can pitch. I'm in full Prior watch mode----no longer 100% convinced he will ever be back to what he was in '03. If he basically misses the ENTIRE SEASON this year because he got the flu 6 months ago???--then maybe I start shopping him a little in the offseason.

 

It's going to be hard to "shop" him if he doesn't pitch all season (aside from four games).

[Bobson Dugnutt]

Why does Hill get the start? Is Guzman part of the discussion? I know Hill is pitching well in the minors again, but we have seen this before. In his last few outings with the Cubs Guzman showed that he can get guys out.

 

What more does Rich Hill have to prove at AAA? Let's see if he can make adjustments at the big league level.

 

Also, Guzman is still getting his arm strengthened after getting an 18-day vacation to the end of the big league bullpen.

 

I'm fine with giving him another shot, but the guy just baffles me. He dominates in AAA but then gets shelled outing after outing in the majors. How many more chances do we give this guy to prove himself?

 

ugh, i know. what's it been, 150 starts? enough already, you know?

 

Uh huh, because he deserves every bit of five seasons to prove himself. The fact is, Prior is probably only going to miss two or three starts, so its really not a big deal.

 

I'm fine with going to Hill this time, but are these 2 starts going to be enough to get a read on him? If he comes up and gets knocked around again, what's the next step for him? Does he get sent back down to the minors to dominate again and then run out there for a fourth stint in the majors?

 

Not being rude or sarcastic, just curious...how many chances to Rich Hill supporters think he should get? If he gets hit in back to back starts, is he nearing the end of his rope?

[goonys evil twin]

Uh huh, because he deserves every bit of five seasons to prove himself. The fact is, Prior is probably only going to miss two or three starts, so its really not a big deal.

 

I'm fine with going to Hill this time, but are these 2 starts going to be enough to get a read on him?

 

No

 

If he comes up and gets knocked around again, what's the next step for him?

 

Keep sending him back out there.

 

Does he get sent back down to the minors to dominate again and then run out there for a fourth stint in the majors?

 

Better not, there's no point.

 

Not being rude or sarcastic, just curious...how many chances to Rich Hill supporters think he should get? If he gets hit in back to back starts, is he nearing the end of his rope?

 

He should have started pretty much the entire second half of 2005. He should have been in the rotation for most of this season. He should be the rotation for the rest of this season. I would like to see him get 20-25 consecutive starts, but because of poor planning by the Cubs, that can't happen this year.

[Bobson Dugnutt]

Uh huh, because he deserves every bit of five seasons to prove himself. The fact is, Prior is probably only going to miss two or three starts, so its really not a big deal.

 

I'm fine with going to Hill this time, but are these 2 starts going to be enough to get a read on him?

 

No

 

If he comes up and gets knocked around again, what's the next step for him?

 

Keep sending him back out there.

 

Does he get sent back down to the minors to dominate again and then run out there for a fourth stint in the majors?

 

Better not, there's no point.

 

Not being rude or sarcastic, just curious...how many chances to Rich Hill supporters think he should get? If he gets hit in back to back starts, is he nearing the end of his rope?

 

He should have started pretty much the entire second half of 2005. He should have been in the rotation for most of this season. He should be the rotation for the rest of this season. I would like to see him get 20-25 consecutive starts, but because of poor planning by the Cubs, that can't happen this year.

 

In place of who, though? Marshall and Marmol have been more successful, Zambrano isn't losing any starts to Hill, Maddux is still here until further notice, and Prior's injury doesn't sound like it is going to be much more than two starts on the DL or so.

[goonys evil twin]

In place of who, though? Marshall and Marmol have been more successful, Zambrano isn't losing any starts to Hill, Maddux is still here until further notice, and Prior's injury doesn't sound like it is going to be much more than two starts on the DL or so.

 

In place of anybody. Zambrano should be rested a bit here and there. Marshall and Marmol are going to go way past normal thresholds if they continue on this pace. Maddux serves no purpose to this organization other than a reminder that the Cubs are one of the worst teams in pro sports in getting the most out of players during their prime years, but all too happy to pay big money for past performance in declining players. Either trade him, or skip him a bit. And Prior could miss any number of starts without surprising people.

[Tracer Bullet]

In place of who, though? Marshall and Marmol have been more successful, Zambrano isn't losing any starts to Hill, Maddux is still here until further notice, and Prior's injury doesn't sound like it is going to be much more than two starts on the DL or so.

 

In place of anybody. Zambrano should be rested a bit here and there. Marshall and Marmol are going to go way past normal thresholds if they continue on this pace. Maddux serves no purpose to this organization other than a reminder that the Cubs are one of the worst teams in pro sports in getting the most out of players during their prime years, but all too happy to pay big money for past performance in declining players. Either trade him, or skip him a bit. And Prior could miss any number of starts without surprising people.

 

I have nothing more to add, so I'll just say I'm a big Rich Hill supporter and agree with everything that goony has posted in this thread.

 

Give the kid a shot already. Not every good ML pitcher was totally dominant in their first handful of starts.

[goonys evil twin]

For a little more of a detailed plan to get Hill starts, this is what I'd do.

 

Start him Sunday, in place of Prior. Start him in that same slot when it comes back up. When Prior returns, skip a Marshall start, slotting in Hill. Next time skip Marmol, then Zambrano. By then Maddux should be dealt and there's your opening. However, if Maddux is still on the team, and Prior is still active, and none of the others is hurt or traded, push everybody back a day to insert Hill in his next start. There's no reason not to use 6 guys if you are trying to evaluate what you have for next year.

[abuck1220]

the "we don't have room" excuse with regard to murton, cedeno and hill in '05 and hill, guzman, and to some extent, wuertz in '06 is probably what makes me the most mad about the whole situation. what a waste the last two seasons have been...all in the name of trying to maybe reach .500.

 

it's one thing if you're winning 95 games and competing for the postseason. but if you're 20 games under .500, i don't think you should be too concerned about bumping the guys that got you to 20 games under .500.

 

oh, where ever do we have the room for these youngsters when our 5th place roster hath runneth over with so much exceptional talent?

Edited July 14, 2006 by abuck1220

[abuck1220]

For a little more of a detailed plan to get Hill starts, this is what I'd do.

 

Start him Sunday, in place of Prior. Start him in that same slot when it comes back up. When Prior returns, skip a Marshall start, slotting in Hill. Next time skip Marmol, then Zambrano. By then Maddux should be dealt and there's your opening. However, if Maddux is still on the team, and Prior is still active, and none of the others is hurt or traded, push everybody back a day to insert Hill in his next start. There's no reason not to use 6 guys if you are trying to evaluate what you have for next year.

 

wow, goony is challenging me for hill's biggest supporter. :D

 

i would love for the cubs to go to a six man rotation that includes hill (and one that includes guzman after maddux is traded). or, at the very least perhaps some type of piggy backing system to keep marmol and marshall's innings under control. of course, the chances of the cubs doing that is 0%.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Why does Hill get the start? Is Guzman part of the discussion? I know Hill is pitching well in the minors again, but we have seen this before. In his last few outings with the Cubs Guzman showed that he can get guys out.

 

What more does Rich Hill have to prove at AAA? Let's see if he can make adjustments at the big league level.

 

Also, Guzman is still getting his arm strengthened after getting an 18-day vacation to the end of the big league bullpen.

 

I'm fine with giving him another shot, but the guy just baffles me. He dominates in AAA but then gets shelled outing after outing in the majors. How many more chances do we give this guy to prove himself?

 

We should give him an extended look from now until season's end. This season is over and he needs regular starts so he can make adjustments not just a sporadic start here and there.

[Mizzou]

In place of who, though? Marshall and Marmol have been more successful, Zambrano isn't losing any starts to Hill, Maddux is still here until further notice, and Prior's injury doesn't sound like it is going to be much more than two starts on the DL or so.

 

In place of anybody. Zambrano should be rested a bit here and there. Marshall and Marmol are going to go way past normal thresholds if they continue on this pace. Maddux serves no purpose to this organization other than a reminder that the Cubs are one of the worst teams in pro sports in getting the most out of players during their prime years, but all too happy to pay big money for past performance in declining players. Either trade him, or skip him a bit. And Prior could miss any number of starts without surprising people.

=D>

[soccer10k]

Why don't we just shut Prior down for the rest of the year so he can take as long as he wants to recover and let Hill start for the remainder of the year. Even if he gets shelled, just let him pitch for the rest of the year. Either he works his way though it and garners consideration for a starting spot next year, or he hit hard and we narrow down our potential options for starters next year. Either way, it gives the Cubs something to bank on.

 

I need to see something from Prior. How do we know if we shut him down he won't be too weak for ST next year and we start this whole thing all over again?

 

No, I'm against shutting Marky Mark down. He needs to come back and prove he can pitch. I'm in full Prior watch mode----no longer 100% convinced he will ever be back to what he was in '03. If he basically misses the ENTIRE SEASON this year because he got the flu 6 months ago???--then maybe I start shopping him a little in the offseason.

 

If we shut him down and let the rookies (Hill/Guzman/Ryu/Marmol) start the rest of the way - which would be even easier if Maddux gets traded - then we can figure out if any of them can be counted on for rotation spots next year. If we assume Z and Marshall are locks for the rotation next year that leaves 3 spots for 5 potential starters. Knowing what the young guys can give us will also affect how hard we go after free agent pitchers in the offseason. Marmol is pitching well and is looking like a strong candidate for a rotation spot.

 

Don't forget that the Cubs also brought Wood back last year to pitch at the end of the year and that probably screwed him up for this year. I don't want that to happen to Prior in 2006/2007. I would love to see how Prior can pitch as much as anybody - and have stated so numerous times - but I just get the feeling that he's not going to be healthy this year and we would be better off saving him for next year. As with Wood, no sense wasting him during a lost season when we should be saving him for next year.

[JonnyRed]

I really wonder if Prior had a sympathy injury after Wood announced he was done for the year? Maybe they are secretly both off golfing everyday? Otherwise I can't think of a team in recent history with luck as truly bad as the Cubs. Makes me want to puke.

[goonys evil twin]

I really wonder if Prior had a sympathy injury after Wood announced he was done for the year? Maybe they are secretly both off golfing everyday? Otherwise I can't think of a team in recent history with luck as truly bad as the Cubs. Makes me want to puke.

 

When you are together so long your cycles tend to sync up eventually.

[Bobson Dugnutt]

the "we don't have room" excuse with regard to murton, cedeno and hill in '05 and hill, guzman, and to some extent, wuertz in '06 is probably what makes me the most mad about the whole situation. what a waste the last two seasons have been...all in the name of trying to maybe reach .500.

 

it's one thing if you're winning 95 games and competing for the postseason. but if you're 20 games under .500, i don't think you should be too concerned about bumping the guys that got you to 20 games under .500.

 

oh, where ever do we have the room for these youngsters when our 5th place roster hath runneth over with so much exceptional talent?

 

Oh, don't get me wrong. I am not using the we don't have room excuse to try and get a guy like Rusch in the rotation. I would rather see Hill than Rusch. I would also rather see him pitch than Maddux, so the sooner Greg is gone, the better. I actually would like to see Guzman and Hill somehow both worked into the rotation, because obviously Hill knows how to get guys out in the minors and needs some more innings in the majors. I just think that Gooz is just as deserving of a chance as Hill, and his stuff looked like it could be dominant. However, I actually do not have stats in front of me and cannot tell you what Guzman has done since being demoted, or if he is stretched out enough to sart for the Cubs.

 

Hypothetical situation: Prior is on the DL for an extended period of time (or Maddux gets dealt). Hill starts 6-7 games and has no more success than he has in his past major league stints. Guzman is down in the minors pitching well. Do you go to Guzman, who through the years has been considered to have the higher ceiling, or do you stick with Hill? In this case, I don't think you would be going by the there's no room theory.

[baseball7897]

Im getting so sick and tired of Prior. He has spent pretty much his whole career on the DL. 7 times in 5 years. The Bedard and Tejeda deal looks pretty good right now.

[Soul]

Im getting so sick and tired of Prior. He has spent pretty much his whole career on the DL. 7 times in 5 years. The Bedard and Tejeda deal looks pretty good right now.

 

I'd definitely dangle Prior out there.

 

The only thing that scares me is the Cubs organization. What if they're doing something that causes him to suck & get injured? Don't ask me what, I don't know. But there's that fear: CPatt. Nomar.

 

What if it isn't Prior, it's the organization in some way?

[oldstyle81]

Im getting so sick and tired of Prior. He has spent pretty much his whole career on the DL. 7 times in 5 years. The Bedard and Tejeda deal looks pretty good right now.

 

I'd definitely dangle Prior out there.

 

The only thing that scares me is the Cubs organization. What if they're doing something that causes him to suck & get injured? Don't ask me what, I don't know. But there's that fear: CPatt. Nomar.

 

What if it isn't Prior, it's the organization in some way?

 

thats what im scared of also, he will go to the cards and win the next 5 cy youngs

[Andy]

In place of who, though? Marshall and Marmol have been more successful, Zambrano isn't losing any starts to Hill, Maddux is still here until further notice, and Prior's injury doesn't sound like it is going to be much more than two starts on the DL or so.

 

In place of anybody. Zambrano should be rested a bit here and there. Marshall and Marmol are going to go way past normal thresholds if they continue on this pace. Maddux serves no purpose to this organization other than a reminder that the Cubs are one of the worst teams in pro sports in getting the most out of players during their prime years, but all too happy to pay big money for past performance in declining players. Either trade him, or skip him a bit. And Prior could miss any number of starts without surprising people.

=D>

Agreed, one of the best sentences ever posted on here.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Per Sullivan in the Trib, Prior is penciled in to start against the Nationals on Friday.

[UMFan83]

Per Sullivan in the Trib, Prior is penciled in to start against the Nationals on Friday.

 

Unless he sneezes

[Andy]

Per Sullivan in the Trib, Prior is penciled in to start against the Nationals on Friday.

 

Unless he sneezes

Or moves. Or breathes. Or pretty much attempts to leave his plastic bubble in any way.

[MustangMike]

Per Sullivan in the Trib, Prior is penciled in to start against the Nationals on Friday.

 

Unless he sneezes

 

What a wuss