4/30 Cubs (Big Z) vs Beermakers (Capuano) 1 pm WGN

[Shavo]

Then I guess we just have different definitions of poorly. I don't consider an ERA slightly under four to be poor.

 

I agree. However, his ERA is over 5.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I find it hilarious that it's okay to ride Pierre's and Jones's asses, but not okay to get on Z (and sometimes Ramirez).

 

I don't think it's fair to exaggerate when criticizing any of the players, which is my main complaint with what blueheart has said.

[badger1679666666]

65 freaking pitches through 6 innings. Our offense is just downright crap.

[JonnyRed]

are those numbers acceptable for an ace though? I think that's the point Blueheart is trying to make.

 

When you say "Zamnbrano(sic) has been crap all year" and "Being the ace also means you don't melt down just about every game", you're going to get called out on it, because Z hasn't been crap all year nor has he melted down just about every game. There's a very real difference between poor performance and inconsistent performance. Say Z hasn't pitched like an "ace"(which is unnecessarily arbitrary anyway, but I digress), fine, but when you exaggerate further upon that to paint him as someone who hasn't done a positive thing all year when he clearly has people are going to catch you.

 

What exactly has Z done that's been positive this year? He's O for the season with a ballooning ERA and WHIP.

[Blueheart05]

are those numbers acceptable for an ace though? I think that's the point Blueheart is trying to make.

 

When you say "Zamnbrano(sic) has been crap all year" and "Being the ace also means you don't melt down just about every game", you're going to get called out on it, because Z hasn't been crap all year nor has he melted down just about every game. There's a very real difference between poor performance and inconsistent performance. Say Z hasn't pitched like an "ace"(which is unnecessarily arbitrary anyway, but I digress), fine, but when you exaggerate further upon that to paint him as someone who hasn't done a positive thing all year when he clearly has people are going to catch you.

 

Yes, he has had at least one inning in every game this season where he's lost control.

[Mizzou]

Fine, even if he was on the edge coming into today's game. Look at his numbers now and tell me he's been good.

After seeing his stats after today's performance, as a whole he hasn't been good. You're right. But I still take issue with your statement that he hasn't done anything all year to deserve praise. Because he has.

[illiniguy]

One month in we are over .500 without a win from Z, Prior, or Wood. I would have never guessed that possible.

[illiniguy]

are those numbers acceptable for an ace though? I think that's the point Blueheart is trying to make.

 

When you say "Zamnbrano(sic) has been crap all year" and "Being the ace also means you don't melt down just about every game", you're going to get called out on it, because Z hasn't been crap all year nor has he melted down just about every game. There's a very real difference between poor performance and inconsistent performance. Say Z hasn't pitched like an "ace"(which is unnecessarily arbitrary anyway, but I digress), fine, but when you exaggerate further upon that to paint him as someone who hasn't done a positive thing all year when he clearly has people are going to catch you.

 

What exactly has Z done that's been positive this year? He's O for the season with a ballooning ERA and WHIP.

He broke his bat over his knee.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

are those numbers acceptable for an ace though? I think that's the point Blueheart is trying to make.

 

When you say "Zamnbrano(sic) has been crap all year" and "Being the ace also means you don't melt down just about every game", you're going to get called out on it, because Z hasn't been crap all year nor has he melted down just about every game. There's a very real difference between poor performance and inconsistent performance. Say Z hasn't pitched like an "ace"(which is unnecessarily arbitrary anyway, but I digress), fine, but when you exaggerate further upon that to paint him as someone who hasn't done a positive thing all year when he clearly has people are going to catch you.

 

What exactly has Z done that's been positive this year? He's O for the season with a ballooning ERA and WHIP.

 

See my previous post. 3 outings combined for fantastic numbers, 3 disaster outings.

 

es, he has had at least one inning in every game this season where he's lost control.

 

This is ridiculous. You're going to harp on him for "losing control" in every outing, even though in two of them he didn't even give up any ER? This is why this got started, because of hyperbole like this.

[Flames24Rulz]

Good inning for Ohman. Hopefully that'll raise his confidence some.

[badger1679666666]

are those numbers acceptable for an ace though? I think that's the point Blueheart is trying to make.

 

When you say "Zamnbrano(sic) has been crap all year" and "Being the ace also means you don't melt down just about every game", you're going to get called out on it, because Z hasn't been crap all year nor has he melted down just about every game. There's a very real difference between poor performance and inconsistent performance. Say Z hasn't pitched like an "ace"(which is unnecessarily arbitrary anyway, but I digress), fine, but when you exaggerate further upon that to paint him as someone who hasn't done a positive thing all year when he clearly has people are going to catch you.

 

Yes, he has had at least one inning in every game this season where he's lost control.

 

What you said is ALOT different from "Z has been crap all year" and "Z has MELTED down every game".

 

The former is a fair analysis, the later is hyperbole. That's all anyone is saying.

[Blueheart05]

Fine, even if he was on the edge coming into today's game. Look at his numbers now and tell me he's been good.

After seeing his stats after today's performance, as a whole he hasn't been good. You're right. But I still take issue with your statement that he hasn't done anything all year to deserve praise. Because he has.

 

So has Glendon Rusch. He pitched well in Pittsburgh and he pitched well for almost 5 innings in STL. Overall, both have not pitched well...

 

Oh yeah, I wasn't exaggerating. If you look back at every game Zambrano has pitched this year, he has melted down (for lack of a better phrase) in at least one inning. Granted, a couple of times he was able to get out of trouble with minimal damage but giving up home runs and then walking the next two batters, arguing with himself or others, and having no general control does not equal a good year thus far.

[Andy]

One month in we are over .500 without a win from Z, Prior, or Wood. I would have never guessed that possible.

Don't forget the fact that Pierre has been crappy, Ramirez has been slumping mightily, KoJock has only recently started playing like a major leaguer, and since Ronny moved to the 2 hole we have a black hole in the bottom two parts of the order.

 

Hence, the importance of a good bullpen.

[Shilzzz]

so, uh, is there a game still going on or are they in a rain delay?

[Mizzou]

Fine, even if he was on the edge coming into today's game. Look at his numbers now and tell me he's been good.

After seeing his stats after today's performance, as a whole he hasn't been good. You're right. But I still take issue with your statement that he hasn't done anything all year to deserve praise. Because he has.

 

So has Glendon Rusch. He pitched well in Pittsburgh and he pitched well for almost 5 innings in STL. Overall, both have not pitched well...

 

Oh yeah, I wasn't exaggerating. If you look back at every game Zambrano has pitched this year, he has melted down (for lack of a better phrase) in at least one inning. Granted, a couple of times he was able to get out of trouble with minimal damage but giving up home runs and then walking the next two batters, arguing with himself or others, and having no general control does not equal a good year thus far.

You really don't like Zambrano, do you?

[Choonch]

I have to agree w/Blueheart. Z has been pretty bad this year. His walks, in particular, are very disappointing. He tries to strike everyone out therefore he's getting less ground balls, more BB's, more pitches, etc....

 

His stats this year would equate to an average #4 starter, IMO.

[Shavo]

I'm not mad at the team for the 13-10 record, but what gets me mad is the offense is horrible and the guys that need to step up because of injuries (Ramirez, Zambrano) aren't doing it. If it wasn't for Greg, we could be below .500 right now.

[badger1679666666]

Fine, even if he was on the edge coming into today's game. Look at his numbers now and tell me he's been good.

After seeing his stats after today's performance, as a whole he hasn't been good. You're right. But I still take issue with your statement that he hasn't done anything all year to deserve praise. Because he has.

 

So has Glendon Rusch. He pitched well in Pittsburgh and he pitched well for almost 5 innings in STL. Overall, both have not pitched well...

 

Oh yeah, I wasn't exaggerating. If you look back at every game Zambrano has pitched this year, he has melted down (for lack of a better phrase) in at least one inning. Granted, a couple of times he was able to get out of trouble with minimal damage but giving up home runs and then walking the next two batters, arguing with himself or others, and having no general control does not equal a good year thus far.

You really don't like Zambrano, do you?

 

When I said that I was accused of riding her.

[illiniguy]

One month in we are over .500 without a win from Z, Prior, or Wood. I would have never guessed that possible.

Don't forget the fact that Pierre has been crappy, Ramirez has been slumping mightily, KoJock has only recently started playing like a major leaguer, and since Ronny moved to the 2 hole we have a black hole in the bottom two parts of the order.

 

Hence, the importance of a good bullpen.

I still think we need to make a move to upgrade in the outfield. Even if it means trading away either wood or prior. I know they couldbe great again, butI just don't ever see it happening for us again and I like what I have seen out of our new young arms.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

so, uh, is there a game still going on or are they in a rain delay?

 

Still going, bottom of the 7th, 2 down.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Fine, even if he was on the edge coming into today's game. Look at his numbers now and tell me he's been good.

After seeing his stats after today's performance, as a whole he hasn't been good. You're right. But I still take issue with your statement that he hasn't done anything all year to deserve praise. Because he has.

 

So has Glendon Rusch. He pitched well in Pittsburgh and he pitched well for almost 5 innings in STL. Overall, both have not pitched well...

 

Oh yeah, I wasn't exaggerating. If you look back at every game Zambrano has pitched this year, he has melted down (for lack of a better phrase) in at least one inning. Granted, a couple of times he was able to get out of trouble with minimal damage but giving up home runs and then walking the next two batters, arguing with himself or others, and having no general control does not equal a good year thus far.

You really don't like Zambrano, do you?

 

I think Bleuheart, like me, really don't like the way Zambrano has pitched this year.

[Flames24Rulz]

uh, wow that was a fast inning.

[Blueheart05]

Fine, even if he was on the edge coming into today's game. Look at his numbers now and tell me he's been good.

After seeing his stats after today's performance, as a whole he hasn't been good. You're right. But I still take issue with your statement that he hasn't done anything all year to deserve praise. Because he has.

 

So has Glendon Rusch. He pitched well in Pittsburgh and he pitched well for almost 5 innings in STL. Overall, both have not pitched well...

 

Oh yeah, I wasn't exaggerating. If you look back at every game Zambrano has pitched this year, he has melted down (for lack of a better phrase) in at least one inning. Granted, a couple of times he was able to get out of trouble with minimal damage but giving up home runs and then walking the next two batters, arguing with himself or others, and having no general control does not equal a good year thus far.

You really don't like Zambrano, do you?

 

That's ridiculous. I love Zambrano's game but he hasn't been on it. He's walking too many batters and not getting groundball outs. Why do you have to question whether I like the guy just because I'm not afraid to criticize him? It's like saying you can't like someone and be objective at the same time.

[Mizzou]

Fine, even if he was on the edge coming into today's game. Look at his numbers now and tell me he's been good.

After seeing his stats after today's performance, as a whole he hasn't been good. You're right. But I still take issue with your statement that he hasn't done anything all year to deserve praise. Because he has.

 

So has Glendon Rusch. He pitched well in Pittsburgh and he pitched well for almost 5 innings in STL. Overall, both have not pitched well...

 

Oh yeah, I wasn't exaggerating. If you look back at every game Zambrano has pitched this year, he has melted down (for lack of a better phrase) in at least one inning. Granted, a couple of times he was able to get out of trouble with minimal damage but giving up home runs and then walking the next two batters, arguing with himself or others, and having no general control does not equal a good year thus far.

You really don't like Zambrano, do you?

 

Thats' ridiculous. I love Zambrano's game but he hasn't been on it. He's walking too many batters and not getting groundball outs. Why do you have to question whether I like the guy just because I'm not afraid to criticize him? It's like saying you can't like someone and be objective at the same time.

That's not what I was saying at all. Just based on your posts, I drew the conclusion that you didn't like him. If I'm wrong, well, then I'm wrong.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Fine, even if he was on the edge coming into today's game. Look at his numbers now and tell me he's been good.

After seeing his stats after today's performance, as a whole he hasn't been good. You're right. But I still take issue with your statement that he hasn't done anything all year to deserve praise. Because he has.

 

So has Glendon Rusch. He pitched well in Pittsburgh and he pitched well for almost 5 innings in STL. Overall, both have not pitched well...

 

Oh yeah, I wasn't exaggerating. If you look back at every game Zambrano has pitched this year, he has melted down (for lack of a better phrase) in at least one inning. Granted, a couple of times he was able to get out of trouble with minimal damage but giving up home runs and then walking the next two batters, arguing with himself or others, and having no general control does not equal a good year thus far.

 

What pitchers don't struggle a few times in a game? The only time I see that are those truly dominant no-hitter/few-hit, shutout outings. Even Maddux has this year. And he argues with himself when things are going well. Zambrano is strange. Seems a bit over the top - there is a lot of ammo already out there to criticize Z on.