4/30 Cubs (Big Z) vs Beermakers (Capuano) 1 pm WGN

[Fred Hornkohl]

Last time the CUBS were shutout...... Wed 31 Aug 2005 by Los Angeles, 7-0

[badger1679666666]

Fine, even if he was on the edge coming into today's game. Look at his numbers now and tell me he's been good.

After seeing his stats after today's performance, as a whole he hasn't been good. You're right. But I still take issue with your statement that he hasn't done anything all year to deserve praise. Because he has.

 

So has Glendon Rusch. He pitched well in Pittsburgh and he pitched well for almost 5 innings in STL. Overall, both have not pitched well...

 

Oh yeah, I wasn't exaggerating. If you look back at every game Zambrano has pitched this year, he has melted down (for lack of a better phrase) in at least one inning. Granted, a couple of times he was able to get out of trouble with minimal damage but giving up home runs and then walking the next two batters, arguing with himself or others, and having no general control does not equal a good year thus far.

You really don't like Zambrano, do you?

 

That's ridiculous. I love Zambrano's game but he hasn't been on it. He's walking too many batters and not getting groundball outs. Why do you have to question whether I like the guy just because I'm not afraid to criticize him? It's like saying you can't like someone and be objective at the same time.

 

Your initial comments were about as FAR from objective as you can get. They were emotional and hyperbolic.

 

Your clarification comments (Z not pitching up to his standards, Z losing control/being inconsistent) are fair and objective.

 

Can't you see this?

 

No, because my comments were obviously in relation to his previous performances. I wouldn't be nearly as upset if I didn't have a high bar for the guy. He's a much better pitcher than he's shown.

 

I guess we'll just disagree on the definition of the words hyperbolic, exaggeration, fair and objective are.

[Brian]

and yet they are still 3 games over .500 (after today)

 

and yet they will be in 5th place (after today)

 

stupid Central :(

 

In a few months, that will be worthy of third place in the division.

 

one can hope, and one can hope some of those things go away and we're a bit more than 3 over.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Last time the CUBS were held to 4 hits....... last Wednesday against Florida.

[Blueheart05]

Fine, even if he was on the edge coming into today's game. Look at his numbers now and tell me he's been good.

After seeing his stats after today's performance, as a whole he hasn't been good. You're right. But I still take issue with your statement that he hasn't done anything all year to deserve praise. Because he has.

 

So has Glendon Rusch. He pitched well in Pittsburgh and he pitched well for almost 5 innings in STL. Overall, both have not pitched well...

 

Oh yeah, I wasn't exaggerating. If you look back at every game Zambrano has pitched this year, he has melted down (for lack of a better phrase) in at least one inning. Granted, a couple of times he was able to get out of trouble with minimal damage but giving up home runs and then walking the next two batters, arguing with himself or others, and having no general control does not equal a good year thus far.

You really don't like Zambrano, do you?

 

That's ridiculous. I love Zambrano's game but he hasn't been on it. He's walking too many batters and not getting groundball outs. Why do you have to question whether I like the guy just because I'm not afraid to criticize him? It's like saying you can't like someone and be objective at the same time.

 

Your initial comments were about as FAR from objective as you can get. They were emotional and hyperbolic.

 

Your clarification comments (Z not pitching up to his standards, Z losing control/being inconsistent) are fair and objective.

 

Can't you see this?

 

No, because my comments were obviously in relation to his previous performances. I wouldn't be nearly as upset if I didn't have a high bar for the guy. He's a much better pitcher than he's shown.

 

I guess we'll just disagree on the definition of the words hyperbolic, exaggeration, fair and objective are.

 

I guess we will have to but I will say that his numbers certainly aren't representative of anyone who's pitched well overall. Serena also brought up a good point about Maddux. Few people were defending him last April with his 3 QS and inflated ERA. For some reason, this is different...

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I guess we will have to but I will say that his numbers certainly aren't representative of anyone who's pitched well overall. Serena also brought up a good point about Maddux. Few people were defending him last April with his 3 QS and inflated ERA. For some reason, this is different...

 

I don't recall many people saying that Maddux was melting down every game, or hadn't done anything to deserve praise last April.

[Fred Hornkohl]

CUBS are 0-1 (1 run scored) in games without an extra base hit

[badger1679666666]

Fine, even if he was on the edge coming into today's game. Look at his numbers now and tell me he's been good.

After seeing his stats after today's performance, as a whole he hasn't been good. You're right. But I still take issue with your statement that he hasn't done anything all year to deserve praise. Because he has.

 

So has Glendon Rusch. He pitched well in Pittsburgh and he pitched well for almost 5 innings in STL. Overall, both have not pitched well...

 

Oh yeah, I wasn't exaggerating. If you look back at every game Zambrano has pitched this year, he has melted down (for lack of a better phrase) in at least one inning. Granted, a couple of times he was able to get out of trouble with minimal damage but giving up home runs and then walking the next two batters, arguing with himself or others, and having no general control does not equal a good year thus far.

You really don't like Zambrano, do you?

 

That's ridiculous. I love Zambrano's game but he hasn't been on it. He's walking too many batters and not getting groundball outs. Why do you have to question whether I like the guy just because I'm not afraid to criticize him? It's like saying you can't like someone and be objective at the same time.

 

Your initial comments were about as FAR from objective as you can get. They were emotional and hyperbolic.

 

Your clarification comments (Z not pitching up to his standards, Z losing control/being inconsistent) are fair and objective.

 

Can't you see this?

 

No, because my comments were obviously in relation to his previous performances. I wouldn't be nearly as upset if I didn't have a high bar for the guy. He's a much better pitcher than he's shown.

 

I guess we'll just disagree on the definition of the words hyperbolic, exaggeration, fair and objective are.

 

I guess we will have to but I will say that his numbers certainly aren't representative of anyone who's pitched well overall. Serena also brought up a good point about Maddux. Few people were defending him last April with his 3 QS and inflated ERA. For some reason, this is different...

 

Nope, you still don't understand. No one minds the above statement. People had issues with the way you phrased your INITIAL criticism, not that there was criticism itself.

[UMFan83]

Just turned the game back on, why is Dempster pitching in a 9-0 game with pouring rain making conditions barely playable?

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Just turned the game back on, why is Dempster pitching in a 9-0 game with pouring rain making conditions barely playable?

 

Why not!?

[Blueheart05]

I guess we will have to but I will say that his numbers certainly aren't representative of anyone who's pitched well overall. Serena also brought up a good point about Maddux. Few people were defending him last April with his 3 QS and inflated ERA. For some reason, this is different...

 

I don't recall many people saying that Maddux was melting down every game, or hadn't done anything to deserve praise last April.

 

No, they said he was old and a waste of money (not to mention pitching batting practice). Again, Zambrano has had at least one inning in every game this year where he's been his own worst enemy. You may not like my "melt down" term but that's what I call it.

[cubweiser03]

Just turned the game back on, why is Dempster pitching in a 9-0 game with pouring rain making conditions barely playable?

 

he hasnt pitched since the 24th i think.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Just turned the game back on, why is Dempster pitching in a 9-0 game with pouring rain making conditions barely playable?

 

he hasnt pitched since the 24th i think.

 

Dempster's last appearance was on Tues 25 April.

[Blueheart05]

Fine, even if he was on the edge coming into today's game. Look at his numbers now and tell me he's been good.

After seeing his stats after today's performance, as a whole he hasn't been good. You're right. But I still take issue with your statement that he hasn't done anything all year to deserve praise. Because he has.

 

So has Glendon Rusch. He pitched well in Pittsburgh and he pitched well for almost 5 innings in STL. Overall, both have not pitched well...

 

Oh yeah, I wasn't exaggerating. If you look back at every game Zambrano has pitched this year, he has melted down (for lack of a better phrase) in at least one inning. Granted, a couple of times he was able to get out of trouble with minimal damage but giving up home runs and then walking the next two batters, arguing with himself or others, and having no general control does not equal a good year thus far.

You really don't like Zambrano, do you?

 

That's ridiculous. I love Zambrano's game but he hasn't been on it. He's walking too many batters and not getting groundball outs. Why do you have to question whether I like the guy just because I'm not afraid to criticize him? It's like saying you can't like someone and be objective at the same time.

 

Your initial comments were about as FAR from objective as you can get. They were emotional and hyperbolic.

 

Your clarification comments (Z not pitching up to his standards, Z losing control/being inconsistent) are fair and objective.

 

Can't you see this?

 

No, because my comments were obviously in relation to his previous performances. I wouldn't be nearly as upset if I didn't have a high bar for the guy. He's a much better pitcher than he's shown.

 

I guess we'll just disagree on the definition of the words hyperbolic, exaggeration, fair and objective are.

 

I guess we will have to but I will say that his numbers certainly aren't representative of anyone who's pitched well overall. Serena also brought up a good point about Maddux. Few people were defending him last April with his 3 QS and inflated ERA. For some reason, this is different...

 

Nope, you still don't understand. No one minds the above statement. People had issues with the way you phrased your INITIAL criticism, not that there was criticism itself.

 

Thats' fine. This is a messageboard, we're not all here to agree. You are free to describe him in the most glowing or PC terms if you choose (or not).

[Laura]

I don't recall many people saying that Maddux was melting down every game, or hadn't done anything to deserve praise last April.

 

Riiiight.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Longest single of the day, no?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I guess we will have to but I will say that his numbers certainly aren't representative of anyone who's pitched well overall. Serena also brought up a good point about Maddux. Few people were defending him last April with his 3 QS and inflated ERA. For some reason, this is different...

 

I don't recall many people saying that Maddux was melting down every game, or hadn't done anything to deserve praise last April.

 

No, they said he was old and a waste of money (not to mention pitching batting practice). Again, Zambrano has had at least one inning in every game this year where he's been his own worst enemy. You may not like my "melt down" term but that's what I call it.

 

Maddux was/is old, and questioning his contract is far from irrational. On the other hand, you are picking apart Zambrano, even when he's done well. By that definition every pitcher in the league is their own worst enemy consistently by failing to put failure behind them, even if they don't actually get hurt because of it.

[Flames24Rulz]

What an awful final 2 games to this series.

[YearofDaCubs]

Zambrano's ERA right now is 5.35. Hardly ace-like. Bottom line, he needs to step it up.

[badger1679666666]

Fine, even if he was on the edge coming into today's game. Look at his numbers now and tell me he's been good.

After seeing his stats after today's performance, as a whole he hasn't been good. You're right. But I still take issue with your statement that he hasn't done anything all year to deserve praise. Because he has.

 

So has Glendon Rusch. He pitched well in Pittsburgh and he pitched well for almost 5 innings in STL. Overall, both have not pitched well...

 

Oh yeah, I wasn't exaggerating. If you look back at every game Zambrano has pitched this year, he has melted down (for lack of a better phrase) in at least one inning. Granted, a couple of times he was able to get out of trouble with minimal damage but giving up home runs and then walking the next two batters, arguing with himself or others, and having no general control does not equal a good year thus far.

You really don't like Zambrano, do you?

 

That's ridiculous. I love Zambrano's game but he hasn't been on it. He's walking too many batters and not getting groundball outs. Why do you have to question whether I like the guy just because I'm not afraid to criticize him? It's like saying you can't like someone and be objective at the same time.

 

Your initial comments were about as FAR from objective as you can get. They were emotional and hyperbolic.

 

Your clarification comments (Z not pitching up to his standards, Z losing control/being inconsistent) are fair and objective.

 

Can't you see this?

 

No, because my comments were obviously in relation to his previous performances. I wouldn't be nearly as upset if I didn't have a high bar for the guy. He's a much better pitcher than he's shown.

 

I guess we'll just disagree on the definition of the words hyperbolic, exaggeration, fair and objective are.

 

I guess we will have to but I will say that his numbers certainly aren't representative of anyone who's pitched well overall. Serena also brought up a good point about Maddux. Few people were defending him last April with his 3 QS and inflated ERA. For some reason, this is different...

 

Nope, you still don't understand. No one minds the above statement. People had issues with the way you phrased your INITIAL criticism, not that there was criticism itself.

 

Thats' fine. This is a messageboard, we're not all here to agree. You are free to describe him in the most glowing or PC terms if you choose (or not).

 

Fair enough. And if you continue using inaccurate hyperbole I will continue to discuss that said hyperbole.

Edited April 30, 2006 by badger

[Laura]

Longest single of the day, no?

 

Indeed.

[Blueheart05]

I guess we will have to but I will say that his numbers certainly aren't representative of anyone who's pitched well overall. Serena also brought up a good point about Maddux. Few people were defending him last April with his 3 QS and inflated ERA. For some reason, this is different...

 

I don't recall many people saying that Maddux was melting down every game, or hadn't done anything to deserve praise last April.

 

No, they said he was old and a waste of money (not to mention pitching batting practice). Again, Zambrano has had at least one inning in every game this year where he's been his own worst enemy. You may not like my "melt down" term but that's what I call it.

 

Maddux was/is old, and questioning his contract is far from irrational. On the other hand, you are picking apart Zambrano, even when he's done well. By that definition every pitcher in the league is their own worst enemy consistently by failing to put failure behind them, even if they don't actually get hurt because of it.

 

 

I disagree. The lapses have cost him because it prevents him from pitching later into games and perhaps, giving the offense time to score so he can qualify for a win. Going into this game, he pitched 29.2 innings over 5 games. That's not even averaging 6 inning a start. Today he didn't record an out in the 5th.

[Blueheart05]

Fine, even if he was on the edge coming into today's game. Look at his numbers now and tell me he's been good.

After seeing his stats after today's performance, as a whole he hasn't been good. You're right. But I still take issue with your statement that he hasn't done anything all year to deserve praise. Because he has.

 

So has Glendon Rusch. He pitched well in Pittsburgh and he pitched well for almost 5 innings in STL. Overall, both have not pitched well...

 

Oh yeah, I wasn't exaggerating. If you look back at every game Zambrano has pitched this year, he has melted down (for lack of a better phrase) in at least one inning. Granted, a couple of times he was able to get out of trouble with minimal damage but giving up home runs and then walking the next two batters, arguing with himself or others, and having no general control does not equal a good year thus far.

You really don't like Zambrano, do you?

 

That's ridiculous. I love Zambrano's game but he hasn't been on it. He's walking too many batters and not getting groundball outs. Why do you have to question whether I like the guy just because I'm not afraid to criticize him? It's like saying you can't like someone and be objective at the same time.

 

Your initial comments were about as FAR from objective as you can get. They were emotional and hyperbolic.

 

Your clarification comments (Z not pitching up to his standards, Z losing control/being inconsistent) are fair and objective.

 

Can't you see this?

 

No, because my comments were obviously in relation to his previous performances. I wouldn't be nearly as upset if I didn't have a high bar for the guy. He's a much better pitcher than he's shown.

 

I guess we'll just disagree on the definition of the words hyperbolic, exaggeration, fair and objective are.

 

I guess we will have to but I will say that his numbers certainly aren't representative of anyone who's pitched well overall. Serena also brought up a good point about Maddux. Few people were defending him last April with his 3 QS and inflated ERA. For some reason, this is different...

 

Nope, you still don't understand. No one minds the above statement. People had issues with the way you phrased your INITIAL criticism, not that there was criticism itself.

 

Thats' fine. This is a messageboard, we're not all here to agree. You are free to describe him in the most glowing or PC terms if you choose (or not).

 

Fair enough. And if you continue using inaccurate hyperbole I will continue to discuss that said hyperbole.

 

What is or isn't accurate is subjective.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I guess we will have to but I will say that his numbers certainly aren't representative of anyone who's pitched well overall. Serena also brought up a good point about Maddux. Few people were defending him last April with his 3 QS and inflated ERA. For some reason, this is different...

 

I don't recall many people saying that Maddux was melting down every game, or hadn't done anything to deserve praise last April.

 

No, they said he was old and a waste of money (not to mention pitching batting practice). Again, Zambrano has had at least one inning in every game this year where he's been his own worst enemy. You may not like my "melt down" term but that's what I call it.

 

Maddux was/is old, and questioning his contract is far from irrational. On the other hand, you are picking apart Zambrano, even when he's done well. By that definition every pitcher in the league is their own worst enemy consistently by failing to put failure behind them, even if they don't actually get hurt because of it.

 

 

I disagree. The lapses have cost him because it prevents him from pitching later into games and perhaps, giving the offense time to score so he can qualify for a win. Going into this game, he pitched 29.2 innings over 5 games. That's not even averaging 6 inning a start. Today he didn't record an out in the 5th.

 

And in his 3 good outings, the ones you have refused to acknowledge and claim he's still melting down in, he's averaged 6.33 innings per start, to go with his 1.80 ERA, 1.38 WHIP, and 9.47 K/9. And again, what you're talking about isn't exclusive to Z, every pitcher ever has it happen to them.

[treebird]

I disagree. The lapses have cost him because it prevents him from pitching later into games and perhaps, giving the offense time to score so he can qualify for a win. Going into this game, he pitched 29.2 innings over 5 games. That's not even averaging 6 inning a start. Today he didn't record an out in the 5th.

 

finally it comes out

 

zambrano sucks cause he doesn't have any wins