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can't underestimate the importance of slow guys jacking hr's

abuck1220

By abuck1220,
in Chicago Cubs Talk

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UK1679666180 Knoxville Smokies

UK1679666180

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If the choice is Patterson (who was fast but rarely got on base to use it) and Burnitz vs. Pierre and Jones, I think Pierre and Jones will help the team win more games even though Patterson and Burnitz are a lock for more home runs

 

Jones and Burnitz are pretty much a wash, neither one is good and you can flip a coin as to who will likely have the better year.

 

The reason why Pierre is a better player than Patterson is ability to get on base at a higher ratio rather than speed.

 

Patterson is just as fast and not that far below Pierre in baserunning ability.

 

If Patterson had the same OBP as Pierre, I'd take Patterson.

 

I'm not enamored by Pierre's ability to get on base, it's good in the pure sense of traditional leadoff hitter, but I'd like to see it higher. I also choose not to factor their inability to find a leadoff hitter in the past as a reason to glow about Pierre.

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Sosa21MVP ACL Cubs

Sosa21MVP

Old-Timey Member
Posted
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If the choice is Patterson (who was fast but rarely got on base to use it) and Burnitz vs. Pierre and Jones, I think Pierre and Jones will help the team win more games even though Patterson and Burnitz are a lock for more home runs

 

Jones and Burnitz are pretty much a wash, neither one is good and you can flip a coin as to who will likely have the better year.

 

The reason why Pierre is a better player than Patterson is ability to get on base at a higher ratio rather than speed.

 

Patterson is just as fast and not that far below Pierre in baserunning ability.

 

If Patterson had the same OBP as Pierre, I'd take Patterson.

 

I'm not enamored by Pierre's ability to get on base, it's good in the pure sense of traditional leadoff hitter, but I'd like to see it higher. I also choose not to factor their inability to find a leadoff hitter in the past as a reason to glow about Pierre.

 

You thoughts more or less mirror my own.

srbin84 First Round Pick

srbin84

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Pierre has a career OBP of .355, Patterson .293.

 

Patterson has a career SLG of .413, Pierre .376.

 

So, if speed is equal, it's a question of what is more valuable, .037 points of SLG or .062 points of OBP. I'll take the OBP.

Sosa21MVP ACL Cubs

Sosa21MVP

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Pierre has a career OBP of .355, Patterson .293.

 

Patterson has a career SLG of .413, Pierre .376.

 

So, if speed is equal, it's a question of what is more valuable, .037 points of SLG or .062 points of OBP. I'll take the OBP.

 

I agree. Really Corey was a speed guy trying to also be a power guy. Very few can pull off that combo.

stitchface First Round Pick

stitchface

Old-Timey Member
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Posted
Pierre has a career OBP of .355, Patterson .293.

 

Patterson has a career SLG of .413, Pierre .376.

 

So, if speed is equal, it's a question of what is more valuable, .037 points of SLG or .062 points of OBP. I'll take the OBP.

 

no argument there. even if the numbers were reversed, I would take the OBP.

srbin84 First Round Pick

srbin84

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
Pierre has a career OBP of .355, Patterson .293.

 

Patterson has a career SLG of .413, Pierre .376.

 

So, if speed is equal, it's a question of what is more valuable, .037 points of SLG or .062 points of OBP. I'll take the OBP.

 

I agree. Really Corey was a speed guy trying to also be a power guy. Very few can pull off that combo.

 

Abreu and Soriano are the only ones. Honorable mention to Sizemore, Bay and Arod.

Warpticon ACL Cubs

Warpticon

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Pierre has a career OBP of .355, Patterson .293.

 

Patterson has a career SLG of .413, Pierre .376.

 

So, if speed is equal, it's a question of what is more valuable, .037 points of SLG or .062 points of OBP. I'll take the OBP.

 

I agree. Really Corey was a speed guy trying to also be a power guy. Very few can pull off that combo.

 

Lots of guys pull off that combo. Corey's problem was pitch recognition and plate discipline (and possibly bat control). If he sacrifices his power, it won't make a bit of difference except to make him less productive unless he improves in the above abilities.

Sosa21MVP ACL Cubs

Sosa21MVP

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Pierre has a career OBP of .355, Patterson .293.

 

Patterson has a career SLG of .413, Pierre .376.

 

So, if speed is equal, it's a question of what is more valuable, .037 points of SLG or .062 points of OBP. I'll take the OBP.

 

I agree. Really Corey was a speed guy trying to also be a power guy. Very few can pull off that combo.

 

Lots of guys pull off that combo. Corey's problem was pitch recognition and plate discipline (and possibly bat control). If he sacrifices his power, it won't make a bit of difference except to make him less productive unless he improves in the above abilities.

 

Well I reckon I can edit to say very few with Corey's liabilities can pull it off. Either way, I'm trying to make the same point just not expressing it as clearly as others can. :wink:

srbin84 First Round Pick

srbin84

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
Pierre has a career OBP of .355, Patterson .293.

 

Patterson has a career SLG of .413, Pierre .376.

 

So, if speed is equal, it's a question of what is more valuable, .037 points of SLG or .062 points of OBP. I'll take the OBP.

 

I agree. Really Corey was a speed guy trying to also be a power guy. Very few can pull off that combo.

 

Lots of guys pull off that combo. Corey's problem was pitch recognition and plate discipline (and possibly bat control). If he sacrifices his power, it won't make a bit of difference except to make him less productive unless he improves in the above abilities.

 

You don't think when Corey was taking home run cuts and missing all the time, it was possible he was being undisciplined in doing so and sacraficing bat control?

Warpticon ACL Cubs

Warpticon

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Pierre has a career OBP of .355, Patterson .293.

 

Patterson has a career SLG of .413, Pierre .376.

 

So, if speed is equal, it's a question of what is more valuable, .037 points of SLG or .062 points of OBP. I'll take the OBP.

 

I agree. Really Corey was a speed guy trying to also be a power guy. Very few can pull off that combo.

 

Lots of guys pull off that combo. Corey's problem was pitch recognition and plate discipline (and possibly bat control). If he sacrifices his power, it won't make a bit of difference except to make him less productive unless he improves in the above abilities.

 

You don't think when Corey was taking home run cuts and missing all the time, it was possible he was being undisciplined in doing so and sacraficing bat control?

 

Not really. I don't think he was just haphazardly taking "home run cuts," or trying too hard to be a power hitter, though he always has been a power guy at all levels. I think it appeared that way because he was trying to catch up to balls whose locations/speed he was late in recognizing.

NCCubFan MVP

NCCubFan

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
You have to have another way of scoring runs other than just homers. I can't remember how many times the last two years we won like 9-1 and followed it up losing 2-1.
That's happened way too often. Usually, when the Cubs won big one game, you could almost count on the next game being a loss. But maybe the 2-1 losses of recent years will turn into 3-2 wins this year. :D
BigbadB First Round Pick

BigbadB

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted
Agreed. And the bullpen helped with a lot of those losses. It is a stronger bullpen this year, so hopefully they will protect more leads.
Soul MVP

Soul

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

It's all about mopping up in the close ones. Unless we're talking about the bottom dwellers, teams will all have their share of blowouts during the year. It's always the good teams winning a high percentage of their close games, and the also-rans losing a high percentage.

 

Plus when you get into the playoffs you have to assume every game will be close. Maybe that's why the Cards get beat in the playoffs. They don't get much experience in the close games during the year so they can't handle it when someone kicks them in the teeth in the post season (that's just wild speculation on my part).

Transmogrified Tiger All-Star

Transmogrified Tiger

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted
It's all about mopping up in the close ones. Unless we're talking about the bottom dwellers, teams will all have their share of blowouts during the year. It's always the good teams winning a high percentage of their close games, and the also-rans losing a high percentage.

 

Plus when you get into the playoffs you have to assume every game will be close. Maybe that's why the Cards get beat in the playoffs. They don't get much experience in the close games during the year so they can't handle it when someone kicks them in the teeth in the post season (that's just wild speculation on my part).

 

Who do you think did better in 1 run games, the 89 win 2004 Cubs, or the 79 win 2005 Cubs?

Andy GOAT

Andy

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Pierre has a career OBP of .355, Patterson .293.

 

Patterson has a career SLG of .413, Pierre .376.

 

So, if speed is equal, it's a question of what is more valuable, .037 points of SLG or .062 points of OBP. I'll take the OBP.

 

I agree. Really Corey was a speed guy trying to also be a power guy. Very few can pull off that combo.

 

Abreu and Soriano are the only ones. Honorable mention to Sizemore, Bay and Arod.

ARod has been at least as successful a power/speed guy as Abreu. Remember he had a 40/40 season back in 1998.

srbin84 First Round Pick

srbin84

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
Pierre has a career OBP of .355, Patterson .293.

 

Patterson has a career SLG of .413, Pierre .376.

 

So, if speed is equal, it's a question of what is more valuable, .037 points of SLG or .062 points of OBP. I'll take the OBP.

 

I agree. Really Corey was a speed guy trying to also be a power guy. Very few can pull off that combo.

 

Abreu and Soriano are the only ones. Honorable mention to Sizemore, Bay and Arod.

ARod has been at least as successful a power/speed guy as Abreu. Remember he had a 40/40 season back in 1998.

 

Yeah, you're right, I was just talking about currently. Arod is usually around 20 steals now.

BigbadB First Round Pick

BigbadB

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted
If they keep drawing walks and showing general patience at the plate, I'll be happy. Of course, with the way Izzy was pitching, how do you not draw walks? :D

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