can't underestimate the importance of slow guys jacking hr's

[Careless]

this thread would be funnier if you fixed the topic. I think.

(I know it got this title because the other one had the same broken style title)

[Guest]

And what did Freel's speed do to us today? ...besides exposing Barrett's defensive deficiencies...

 

it led to one run. the home runs accounted for four. your point is...?

 

Actually, I saw it lead to two. And the Cubs hit 3 HRs and still lost. It's still a combination of things, all of which are important on a play-by-play basis.

So you are saying our speed "slumped" yesterday while our power came through? :D

[biittner77]

Speaking of fast, I couldn't believe how quickly Aramis got around on that bomb he hit. Now that was fast.

 

Babe Ruth used to run really fast around the bases in those old newsreels :D

[BigbadB]

Speaking of fast, I couldn't believe how quickly Aramis got around on that bomb he hit. Now that was fast.

 

Babe Ruth used to run really fast around the bases in those old newsreels :D

 

Yes he did. But, once again I was referring to his bat speed. I couldn't believe how quickly he got the bat through the zone on that bomb. I'd never consider Aramis quick around the bases.

[srbin84]

Ruth had 123 career steals.

[Guest]

And more complete game shutouts than Pedro.

[BigbadB]

Ruth had 123 career steals.

 

The bases were like 50 feet closer to each other way back then. :D

[BigbadB]

And more complete game shutouts than Pedro.

 

Home plate was like 3 feet wider back then. :D

[scs_paradise]

So are we saying HR is the most important thing again? Cause last I remember last year we were 1st or 2nd in home runs (NL) and 10th(??) in runs scored.

 

You are going to see days where HR win games. But that shouldn't make you "scoff at" our new and improved speed. Because it IS important and CAN help win games.

 

No. Getting on base is the most important thing.

 

What "we" are saying is that hitting homeruns >>>>>>>>>>>>>> causing havoc on the bases.

 

I hate the "all or nothing" argument that goes on here all the time. There can't be ONE most important thing. Isn't it a BALANCE thing? yes you have to have guys that get on, but you have to have guys that mash the ball too, you have to have a guy that can steal a base, you have to have guys who can bunt. Some of these stats are exclusive of eachother, most guys who get on, don't mash the ball and vise versa.

 

I don't think a team of all high OBP guys would work, or all mashers would work, or all speed...etc...BALANCE

[goonys evil twin]

Some of these stats are exclusive of eachother, most guys who get on, don't mash the ball and vise versa.

 

That's not true at all. Most of your best OBP guys are mashers.

[Guest]

Some of these stats are exclusive of eachother, most guys who get on, don't mash the ball and vise versa.

 

That's not true at all. Most of your best OBP guys are mashers.

To add to this point...

 

From the other thread, here is the list of players with the highest HR totals at their positions over the past two years:

 

C - Varitek

1B - Pujols

2B - Soriano

3B - ARod

SS - Tejada

LF - Manny

CF - Andruw

RF - Vlad

Most of the guys on that list consistently post very good OBP's in addition to their excellent slugging totals.

[imb]

Some of these stats are exclusive of eachother, most guys who get on, don't mash the ball and vise versa.

 

That's not true at all. Most of your best OBP guys are mashers.

To add to this point...

 

From the other thread, here is the list of players with the highest HR totals at their positions over the past two years:

 

C - Varitek

1B - Pujols

2B - Soriano

3B - ARod

SS - Tejada

LF - Manny

CF - Andruw

RF - Vlad

Most of the guys on that list consistently post very good OBP's in addition to their excellent slugging totals.

 

Top 20 SLG% 2005

 

1 Derrek Lee

2 Alex Rodriguez

3 Albert Pujols

4 David Ortiz

5 Travis Hafner

6 Manny Ramirez

7 Carlos Delgado

8 Ken Griffey Jr.

9 Andruw Jones

10 Mark Teixeira

11 Aramis Ramirez

12 Vladimir Guerrero

13 Miguel Cabrera Fla

14 Jason Bay

15 Morgan Ensberg

16 Chad Tracy

17 Richie Sexson

18 Adam Dunn

Chase Utley

20 Jason Giambi

 

What do they all have in common? OBP% above .350 (except for stupid Andruw "Runner Up in the MVP" Jones at .347)

 

Hell, only one person in the top 30 has a substandard OBP and that is Jay Gibbons at 29.

[CubinNY]

Exhibit B 4/8/06

 

3 runs all on XBH

[Guest]

Exhibit B 4/8/06

 

3 runs all on XBH

And the speed is still slumping...

[srbin84]

You have to have another way of scoring runs other than just homers. I can't remember how many times the last two years we won like 9-1 and followed it up losing 2-1.

[soccer10k]

You have to have another way of scoring runs other than just homers. I can't remember how many times the last two years we won like 9-1 and followed it up losing 2-1.

 

Whenever I would turn on a telecast of the Cubs playing at Wrigley with the Cubs playing at home I just knew they were going to lose because we relied on the home run so much.

[Sosa21MVP]

Ironically enough, the Cubs win today with the long ball! :wink:

 

I favor balanced offense. Don't rely too much on neither power nor speed. Mix the two well and you have an offense less prone to slumps. With balance, if one thing isn't working another strength can carry the load for a day.

 

The thing that bothered me today was the Cubs leaving so many runs on the bases. Need to cash in those runs.

 

The one interesting example of how speed can change the dynamic was the play where Juan Pierre took off running which created a hole right up the middle for Derrick Lee. Gave us 1st and 3rd, one out I believe? But we could not cash in the run obviously.

 

Speed don't slump but it can only do so much. It creates more scoring opportunities through stolen bases, taking the extrabase more successfully, stretching singles into doubles, doubles into triples, etc.

 

That is the thing I like about having a guy like Juan Pierre, he can get to 2nd base without needing the batter to move him over. Fundamentals in baseball overall are not always the best anymore so it's nice to have a speed guy who can take the matter into his own hands. :wink:

[stitchface]

You have to have another way of scoring runs other than just homers. I can't remember how many times the last two years we won like 9-1 and followed it up losing 2-1.

 

what does that have to do with homeruns? The reason the cubs don't score without homeruns is because of lack of OBP.

[stitchface]

does anyone who says speed doesn't slump remember corey patterson?

[UBlink]

does anyone who says speed doesn't slump remember corey patterson?

 

Speed doesn't slump makes as much sense as a beautiful swing doesn't slump. Pick your favorite player with a beautiful swing and see if it doesn't look just as good when that player is in a slump?

[srbin84]

You have to have another way of scoring runs other than just homers. I can't remember how many times the last two years we won like 9-1 and followed it up losing 2-1.

 

what does that have to do with homeruns? The reason the cubs don't score without homeruns is because of lack of OBP.

 

The Cubs don't have players with good OBP and don't seem intent on acquiring a lineup full of them. I'll take a few guys who can get on base at a decent clip and have speed over a few guys who have bad averages and OBPs but hit an occasional home run, which is what we had last year. A couple more Lee or Ramirez type players is not an alternative for this team.

[stitchface]

You have to have another way of scoring runs other than just homers. I can't remember how many times the last two years we won like 9-1 and followed it up losing 2-1.

 

what does that have to do with homeruns? The reason the cubs don't score without homeruns is because of lack of OBP.

 

The Cubs don't have players with good OBP and don't seem intent on acquiring a lineup full of them. I'll take a few guys who can get on base at a decent clip and have speed over a few guys who have bad averages and OBPs but hit an occasional home run, which is what we had last year. A couple more Lee or Ramirez type players is not an alternative for this team.

 

Lee runs quite well. Ramirez and Lee both have good OBPs. I would certainly prefer another Lee or Ramirez to a Jones or Pierre or a Burnitz. 8 Lees would score a whole lot of runs! I guess I don't really follow what you are trying to say. I would choose OBP over speed.

[srbin84]

You have to have another way of scoring runs other than just homers. I can't remember how many times the last two years we won like 9-1 and followed it up losing 2-1.

 

what does that have to do with homeruns? The reason the cubs don't score without homeruns is because of lack of OBP.

 

The Cubs don't have players with good OBP and don't seem intent on acquiring a lineup full of them. I'll take a few guys who can get on base at a decent clip and have speed over a few guys who have bad averages and OBPs but hit an occasional home run, which is what we had last year. A couple more Lee or Ramirez type players is not an alternative for this team.

 

Lee runs quite well. Ramirez and Lee both have good OBPs. I would certainly prefer another Lee or Ramirez to a Jones or Pierre or a Burnitz. 8 Lees would score a whole lot of runs! I guess I don't really follow what you are trying to say. I would choose OBP over speed.

 

I'm saying I agree with you but the Cubs aren't going to get more Lees or Ramirezzzz. If the choice is Patterson (who was fast but rarely got on base to use it) and Burnitz vs. Pierre and Jones, I think Pierre and Jones will help the team win more games even though Patterson and Burnitz are a lock for more home runs.

[Sosa21MVP]

does anyone who says speed doesn't slump remember corey patterson?

 

Corey's failings were not speed-related. He had no clue of the strike zone and did not get on base enough for his speed to have full effect. His legs never slumped, just his ability to see the ball, understand the strike zone and put himself on base enough to where his speed would matter.

 

Juan Pierre from my understanding gets on base a bit more frequently.

 

Speed never slumps, but it doesn't do you any good if the speed guys are not consistently getting on base and getting driven home by the power guys.

 

But speed never hurts. It's always better to have at least one or two SPEED guys who can get on base and prevent a team from having to play station-to-station baseball.

[stitchface]

You have to have another way of scoring runs other than just homers. I can't remember how many times the last two years we won like 9-1 and followed it up losing 2-1.

 

what does that have to do with homeruns? The reason the cubs don't score without homeruns is because of lack of OBP.

 

The Cubs don't have players with good OBP and don't seem intent on acquiring a lineup full of them. I'll take a few guys who can get on base at a decent clip and have speed over a few guys who have bad averages and OBPs but hit an occasional home run, which is what we had last year. A couple more Lee or Ramirez type players is not an alternative for this team.

 

Lee runs quite well. Ramirez and Lee both have good OBPs. I would certainly prefer another Lee or Ramirez to a Jones or Pierre or a Burnitz. 8 Lees would score a whole lot of runs! I guess I don't really follow what you are trying to say. I would choose OBP over speed.

 

I'm saying I agree with you but the Cubs aren't going to get more Lees or Ramirezzzz. If the choice is Patterson (who was fast but rarely got on base to use it) and Burnitz vs. Pierre and Jones, I think Pierre and Jones will help the team win more games even though Patterson and Burnitz are a lock for more home runs.

 

OBP is more important than home runs. agreed.