Rich Hill.....

[OldHappyCubFan]

I'd like to know some opinions on him. Do you think he has the stuff/talent to be a valuable guy in the major leagues?

 

Do you feel its a good time to trade him away for a bigger talented player?

 

Is he the most MLB ready pitcher in the Cubs organization, is he the most talented amoung them all?

 

 

I'm interested in hearing what others have to say. :)

[XZero771679666304]

I'd like to know some opinions on him. Do you think he has the stuff/talent to be a valuable guy in the major leagues?

 

Do you feel its a good time to trade him away for a bigger talented player?

 

Is he the most MLB ready pitcher in the Cubs organization, is he the most talented amoung them all?

 

 

I'm interested in hearing what others have to say. :)

 

Truthfully, what I see outside of his curveball isn't that impressive. He could (and very well may) develop some complemetary pitches, but his curve, as devastating as it is, isn't going to cut it for long if he only has that average straight fastball to go with it. Plus his command seems suspect to me.

 

I would like to keep him, but if trading the guy could land us an impact player, I'd do it.

[mtkafka]

I don't think hes the next Zito, but I do think he has potential especially considering he throws a pretty good curve. I don't think we have a lefty throw as good a curve as he throws. And good southpaw curveballers are usually rare. If he can spot his low 90's fb and pickup a slider/changeup to complement that curve I think he could be at least a solid fourth or fifth starter.

 

This is only based on 2 starts though... not much else I've seen. But I do like his curve.

 

etc

[ManCrushOnNomar]

If he develops a good 2 seamer and a Madduxesque changeup he'll be a monster.

[Outshined_One]

I'm leery about trading him now because of the fact that the back end of the rotation already has some depth issues. Mitre, Rusch, and Wellemeyer could all step in if something happens...but I'm unsure if they really are upgrades over Hill at this point. When each is on, they all can be impressive pitchers...but I think that Hill has a better upside than each.

 

I agree, Hill's straight fastball might not fool everyone as he logs more experience in the majors. He has shown he can throw it for strikes all around the zone, but considering he works mostly up in the zone, I'm not looking forward to seeing him on a day when he's missing with it.

 

However, his curveballs are fascinating. I remember seeing it mentioned somewhere that he works with two curves, a 12-6 and an 11-5. We have seen the extent of the movement they get and how silly they can make some hitters look. He also has proven that he can take on right handed hitters with it, which is quite positive.

 

I don't think we have seen his change or cutter yet. My memory of it is that each of those pitches could end up being average in the end.

 

He has two correctable flaws. First, he needs to learn how to run the bases. It's clear that he couldn't find his way around the bases with a guide and a GPS locator. Second, he needs to develop a pickoff move that is similar to enough to his windup that it will fool runner.

 

What bothers me the most about Hill are three things. They aren't all completely correctable, either...

 

One, his curveballs get such extreme movement on them that even the umpires get fooled on them. This happened in the Glaus AB when he had Glaus 1-2. This is something that happens, but it's bothersome.

 

Two, his pitching style promotes a lot of fly balls. This is fine for the Cubs to have on the cooler days when the wind is blowing in...but when that wind is blowing out...yeah, yuck. I can see where his high HR totals come from.

 

Three, he gets a ton of full counts. It seems like he gets ahead of a lot of hitters, but he has trouble finishing them off. If he throws that fastball anywhere near the zone, a good hitter can pound it. That curveball is useful for getting swinging strikes, but throwing it for strikes is easier said than done. Especially considering hitters foul off his pitches a fair amount. His cutter and change both are important.

 

If he can allow for the Cubs to add an impact bat, then yes, trade him! But, he's probably the best option for the Cubs until the end of the season. I'm curious to see how he develops as the season goes on and teams get a better scouting report on him.

 

He might be a nice piece of trade bait in the offseason if he does well enough, though.

[UMFan83]

Like O_o said, the main reason I'm leery of trading him is that he has value to the team THIS year. He has a nasty curve ball and a nice fastball, but everyone and their mom knows that once advance scouts get a good report on his curveball, he is going to have to make adjustments. Will he? God I hope so.

[Careless]

I don't think we have seen his change or cutter yet. My memory of it is that each of those pitches could end up being average in the end.

Wouldn't either of these being merely average make him vastly more effective? As it is now, if he's not locating his curveball you can just wait on his fastball and it's not the hardest pitch around to crush. Throwing anything that looks even slightly fastball-ish should make him a far better pitcher

[Elrhino]

I think the Shawn Estes comparisons are accurate. I think he'll likely look very good his first few times around the rotation, but as hitters and advanced scouting become more familiar with him the more likely he'll settle in as a 4th or 5th spot in the rotation kind of guy and stay there for the remainder of his career.

 

I would have no problem using a 4th or 5th in the rotation type of guy to land a All Star caliber positional player in trade. There are much bigger flaws with this team than the dropoff from Rich Hill to Glendon Rusch.

[katway]

Right now Hill is like a young Estes with the potential to be a Zito. His curve is precisely like Zito's, but he needs just one more pitch to make it all happen. His fastball could use slightly more movement, but has enough zip. A real nice changeup, splitfinger, slider... just about any other above average mastery of a pitch to keep hitters honest would make him an ace because his curve is that good. I bet the team works with him on developing another pitch this winter.

 

I also think that once he has some time in the bigs and the umpires get used to him, they are going to call a lot more strikes on that curve. currently, I think the umps miss some strikes because his curve fools them.

[TXCubsFan]

I'm very optimistic that he'll be a good #3-#5 starter for the Cubs long term. He has spent the past three years getting his walk rate way down, which he has done. During yesterday's broadcast, it was mentioned that he is working on a third and possibly a fourth pitch. If he develops a change, a cutter, or both, the fact that he tops out at 90 won't be a big problem.

[10man]

If he develops a good 2 seamer and a Madduxesque changeup he'll be a monster.

Note to Greg Maddux:

Help this guy become a good pitcher.

It's the least you can do.

[back2backjax]

i need to hear who we put in the rotation if we deal hill for ramirez/soriano.

 

i, for one, don't want to see him dealt. he's a good lefty with the ability to get bettter. and he's 25. unless we're going to get a long-term position player, similar to what a-ram has turned into. if it's to get a guy like kearns who's not yet shown the ability to be consistently good; or dunn who despite his power has a few huge holes in his game (Ks, avg, defense), then forget it. soriano is tantalizing but at $10 million next year, we better be prepared to keep him for at least 3/4 seasons to make it worth the risk of seeing hill become yet another talented pitcher (garland, wills, lohse for a while) pitching for a team other than the cubs.

 

unless something big can be done to significantly improve the team, i say put murton in LF and let's see what adding wood, remlinger and nomar does for us.

 

i do wish dusty would use a consistent lineup for the remaining games. i'm sick of seeing burnitz bat 6th one day, 4th the next, 5th the next. murton batting 8th one day, 6th the next, etc.

[10man]

Did anyone realize that aside from Greg Maddux, Hill is the OLDEST pitcher in the current rotation?

[Electron Blue]

Did anyone realize that aside from Greg Maddux, Hill is the OLDEST pitcher in the current rotation?

 

Ha! Thanks - that's a funny little fact.

[chicubs310]

With another good pitch or even two, people will be comparing him to Barry Zito. Both tall lefties, with devestating curveballs. But untill that day, dont count on too many good outings in the majors:( . His curveball was starting to be hit a little bit on the 30th, and it will only get worse from here on out

[abuck1220]

But untill that day, dont count on too many good outings in the majors:( .

 

umm...he's two for two so far. plus 4 1/3 no hit innings vs mil...i'd say he's three for three. but since you warned me, i won't count on any more. :roll:

 

His curveball was starting to be hit a little bit on the 30th, and it will only get worse from here on out

 

who hit his curveball yesterday? in all his major league outings and the times i've seen him in AAA, i dont' think i've ever seen his curve get hit hard.

 

 

on a board that has overrated every prospect that comes through (sergio mitre = greg maddux!), i'm really surprised that everyone is selling hill so short. everybody keeps ragging on his fb, but i've seen him get some pretty nice swings and misses from some pretty good hitters off his fb. his success is all dependent on spotting his curve, which he has been able to do. the only time i've seen him struggle was in his last AAA start where he couldn't throw it for a strike. they just sat on his fb and teed off on him. but if he throws his curve for strikes, his 'average' fb is fine.

[UK1679666180]

Don't forget that his curve makes his FB look that much better. The more mental adjustments a hitter has to make about his curve, the better his FB will be.

[imb]

It's funny to see the looks on batters faces as they swing too late on a 90 mph fastball.

[MPrior]

Hill is developing a change and a cutter. And if either of those pitches (esp. the cutter - he could REALLY mess with right handers then) becomes a reliable, slightly above average pitch, he'll be great (and once umps stop selling him short - in his last start, he couldn't buy a called strike). And by "great," I don't necessarily mean top of the rotation starter, but I do mean someone who can consistently hold his own on the big league level.

 

Plus, he has TWO curves, which hopefully will mess with some of those advance scouts a little, make him harder to figure out.

[WrigleyinEngland]

Whats his 'stuff' like compared to other lefties in our system ie Pinto, gallagher?????