Winter Meetings thread

[Bertz]

10 minutes ago, KCCub said:

Ugh, I dislike the Suzuki stuff. Also, horrible timing for this to come out right in the heat of Roki discussions with them sharing the same agent. 

If Jed moves Bellinger to get Suzuki back in RF I don't think this is a negative, if anything it's the opposite.

This does have to color how we daydream future lineups though.  For example no way in hell Owen Caissie or Kevin Alcantara are pushing Seiya to DH, no matter what the math says.

Edited December 10, 2024 by Bertz

[Jason Ross]

I wonder how this plays into the Kyle Tucker thing. Would the Cubs move off Bellinger and Seiya for Kyle Tucker? Is Tucker cool with being a DH more so than a position guy? 

Feels like there is a lot going on in Jed world.

[Hunter]

I think the Cubs are just checking in on every possibility and it is getting reported. All the rumors come up then just go nowhere. We're all going to end up being disappointed in the final outcome.

[KCCub]

Just now, 1908_Cubs said:

I wonder how this plays into the Kyle Tucker thing. Would the Cubs move off Bellinger and Seiya for Kyle Tucker? Is Tucker cool with being a DH more so than a position guy? 

Feels like there is a lot going on in Jed world.

I've thought about that as well. E.g. what does a world look like with no Belli & Suzuki but + Tucker (And whatever you get back from Suzuki/Belli). It's a lot to take in. I just don't see Jed all of a sudden making multiple blockbuster trades like that. 

[Jason Ross]

Fried about to pick. Yankees, Red Sox and Blue Jays

[Cuzi]

10 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

I wonder how this plays into the Kyle Tucker thing. Would the Cubs move off Bellinger and Seiya for Kyle Tucker? Is Tucker cool with being a DH more so than a position guy? 

Feels like there is a lot going on in Jed world.

I can't imagine a guy like Tucker being cool with a positional demotion 1 year before his FA. Look at what Machado did. The guy was a career 3B and then the year going into his FA he was like... ya I'm a SS again. Signs his deal and then goes back to 3B.

[Cuzi]

Good news is, if the Yankees are the only competition for Tucker, then there is no excuse for the Cubs being outbid. Their farm system sucks. Just a matter of how realistic the Astros are in their demands. If it anything like the Phillies asking for Gilbert or Kirby for Bohm, then better get comfortable with Suzuki back in RF.

Edited December 10, 2024 by Cuzi

[Bertz]

15 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

I wonder how this plays into the Kyle Tucker thing. Would the Cubs move off Bellinger and Seiya for Kyle Tucker? Is Tucker cool with being a DH more so than a position guy? 

Feels like there is a lot going on in Jed world.

Yeah I think both have to go, which certainly colors how likely a Tucker trade feels for me.  That said I think Houston taking one back isn't unreasonable, especially if we saved them money elsewhere (e.g. Ryan Pressly), so I don't think it requires some Preller-esque spree of moves to make everything work together.

[Jason Ross]

5 minutes ago, Bertz said:

Yeah I think both have to go, which certainly colors how likely a Tucker trade feels for me.  That said I think Houston taking one back isn't unreasonable, especially if we saved them money elsewhere (e.g. Ryan Pressly), so I don't think it requires some Preller-esque spree of moves to make everything work together.

There's a lot going on there, but I do think the Astros would possibly take one back. One thing I keep coming back to, and I admit, it could just me creating things out of nothing...but Jed doesn't give off the kind of guy who would sit down with Wolfe and Seiya and talk logistics and specifics on trade situations without a really big reason. Which gives me some thought that there's enough going on somewhere, that it makes sense to Jed to consider it. 

Maybe Jed's okay with moving out Seiya, not Bellinger and going that route, but I'd be a bit concerned with that. I don't know...most of this is talking me into and out of scenarios as I try to make heads and tails of it.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

FWIW, the interpretation of the Suzuki comments seems to vary on whose account you're reading.  Rogers, Montemurro, and Bastian all tweeted about it and Jesse's was the only one who framed it in a particularly negative light(mildshock.gif).  It did give the impression that Seiya isn't super jazzed about being a full-time DH, but I also would hesitate to go so far that it would be a blocker for other acquisitions.  It's not hard to find defensive starts for corner OF and Wolfe isn't ever gonna say 'yeah he's a DH of course'.

[Bertz]

4 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

There's a lot going on there, but I do think the Astros would possibly take one back. One thing I keep coming back to, and I admit, it could just me creating things out of nothing...but Jed doesn't give off the kind of guy who would sit down with Wolfe and Seiya and talk logistics and specifics on trade situations without a really big reason. Which gives me some thought that there's enough going on somewhere, that it makes sense to Jed to consider it. 

Maybe Jed's okay with moving out Seiya, not Bellinger and going that route, but I'd be a bit concerned with that. I don't know...most of this is talking me into and out of scenarios as I try to make heads and tails of it.

From the sounds of it there's not enough acrimony for it to be a "choose him or me!" deal, but in a gentlemanly sense it is more or less a " choose him or me" deal.  Bellinger's always probably been the guy to go, but if you're Jed you're not doing tour job if you don't see what Suzuki could net.  And if him and Wolfe have a healthy relationship, there's no harm in passing along e.g. "The Tigers and Astros horsefeathering LOVE you if you want to wave your NTC and have me go down that route."  Right now, the winter meetings, with a Bellinger trade seeming fairly imminent, is the exact right time to have that convo.

[TarzanJoeWallis]

11 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

There's a lot going on there, but I do think the Astros would possibly take one back. One thing I keep coming back to, and I admit, it could just me creating things out of nothing...but Jed doesn't give off the kind of guy who would sit down with Wolfe and Seiya and talk logistics and specifics on trade situations without a really big reason. Which gives me some thought that there's enough going on somewhere, that it makes sense to Jed to consider it. 

Maybe Jed's okay with moving out Seiya, not Bellinger and going that route, but I'd be a bit concerned with that. I don't know...most of this is talking me into and out of scenarios as I try to make heads and tails of it.

Wolfe also said something along the lines that Jed isn’t wanting to trade Seiya but that it could be possible that a deal happens that is too attractive to pass up. He also said Jed does a great job of communicating. To me that sounds like a big deal could be possible and Jed just wanted to let Wolfe and Seiya know. 

[Jason Ross]

13 minutes ago, TarzanJoeWallis said:

Wolfe also said something along the lines that Jed isn’t wanting to trade Seiya but that it could be possible that a deal happens that is too attractive to pass up. He also said Jed does a great job of communicating. To me that sounds like a big deal could be possible and Jed just wanted to let Wolfe and Seiya know. 

Yeah, I did take it as there was some juice to it.

[Bull]

1 hour ago, 1908_Cubs said:

This Seiya information is weird. But also a bit interesting. What would have Seiya convinced he was headed for a time DH role? There's a few possibilities

• First, is that the Cubs have gotten no real bites on Bellinger. Thus having him move more to a DH space.
• Second, despite them working hard to move Bellinger, there's a replacement RF'er coming. You can make of that how you wish

Seems like the Cubs have a lot of plates spinning right now. 

I think you have this backwards. Seiya doesn't want traded because the Cubs can't find a taker for Bellinger. Bellinger is being shopped because Seiya doesn't want to be a DH. Seiya was convinced he was headed to a DH role because he finished the year as the everyday DH. He probably complained about it then and was told "don't worry, Cody will opt out and we will bring in a DH and put you back in RF where you belong, sir."

Then Cody didn't opt out, thus the shopping of Cody and the **slight** possibility of it being Seiya because teams have said "we are more interested and will give you a better return for Seiya"

[Cuzi]

2 minutes ago, Bull said:

I think you have this backwards. Seiya doesn't want traded because the Cubs can't find a taker for Bellinger. Bellinger is being shopped because Seiya doesn't want to be a DH. Seiya was convinced he was headed to a DH role because he finished the year as the everyday DH. He probably complained about it then and was told "don't worry, Cody will opt out and we will bring in a DH and put you back in RF where you belong, sir."

Then Cody didn't opt out, thus the shopping of Cody and the **slight** possibility of it being Seiya because teams have said "we are more interested and will give you a better return for Seiya"

I cant help but feel that's not what is happening at all.

Jed was putting out a propaganda campaign about how he knew Bellinger was going to opt out when he offered him his contract and how he wasn't going to be around in 2025. I dont believe for one second that Bellinger is being shopped around because of anything related to Suzuki. Bellinger is being shopped because Jed straight up doesn't want him on the roster. He had other plans with that money.

Edited December 10, 2024 by Cuzi

[Bull]

4 minutes ago, Cuzi said:

I cant help but feel that's not what is happening at all.

Jed was putting out a propaganda campaign about how he knew Bellinger was going to opt out when he offered him his contract and how he wasn't going to be around in 2025. I dont believe for one second that Bellinger is being shopped around because of anything related to Suzuki. Bellinger is being shopped because Jed straight up doesn't want him on the roster. He had other plans with that money.

For sure Bellinger was a hedge against the bets on PCA and Busch. Those bets paid out and so Bellinger is superfluous (though I still don't trust Busch).  Bellinger opting in was inconvenient. But the urgency is because Seiya made it clear he didn't want to DH. Otherwise you just accept that you have a versatile 111 ops+ lefty that you're stuck with, oh darn.

[We Got The Whole 9]

1 hour ago, Cuzi said:

Good news is, if the Yankees are the only competition for Tucker, then there is no excuse for the Cubs being outbid. Their farm system sucks. Just a matter of how realistic the Astros are in their demands. If it anything like the Phillies asking for Gilbert or Kirby for Bohm, then better get comfortable with Suzuki back in RF.

Bad news is the Yankees have a history of getting things done no matter the cost but often for less than is usually expected somehow as well. 

[Cuzi]

23 minutes ago, Bull said:

For sure Bellinger was a hedge against the bets on PCA and Busch. Those bets paid out and so Bellinger is superfluous (though I still don't trust Busch).  Bellinger opting in was inconvenient. But the urgency is because Seiya made it clear he didn't want to DH. Otherwise you just accept that you have a versatile 111 ops+ lefty that you're stuck with, oh darn.

I would hope Jed would have more intelligence than to go into a lame duck season praying on the virtually the same roster with a couple bullpen additions and Paredes showing more than he did to end the year in Wrigley.

[Stratos]

2 hours ago, Cuzi said:

Jesse Rogers just said that the Cubs have spoken to Suzuki's agent about a trade. Apparently Suzuki does not want to exclusively be a DH. So probably Suzuki involved in a deal for Tucker.

Oh snap

[Stratos]

1 hour ago, Hunter said:

I think the Cubs are just checking in on every possibility and it is getting reported. All the rumors come up then just go nowhere. We're all going to end up being disappointed in the final outcome.

This is true.  Jed is kicking tires on every nice car in the lot, as he should.  Why wouldn't the Cubs be interested in Tucker if he's on the market?

[Stratos]

Is Seiya playing for the Cubs or for his next contract?  Just checking. 

[Rcal10]

Really don’t like hearing Suzuki brought up on trades. I think it kills any chance at Sasaki (if they actually do have a chance) and gets rid of their best hitter. I think you get what you can for Bellinger and let Seiya play some outfield next year. Even if they do get Tucker, they can still get Seiya in the infield half the time. 

[Rcal10]

18 minutes ago, Stratos said:

Is Seiya playing for the Cubs or for his next contract?  Just checking. 

What does this mean? 

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Sharma: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5984787/2024/12/10/seiya-suzuki-chicago-cubs-trade-talks/

 

Quote

“Seiya has a full no-trade (clause),” Wolfe said. “Seiya has an open mind. Jed has been very communicative about it. I talked to him about it last night. He told me what teams he’s been talking to. I don’t think he wants to trade Seiya, but there may be a scenario where he feels like he has a deal he can’t say no to.”

 

Quote

Trading Suzuki would come as a bit more of a surprise, though. And according to Wolfe, it isn’t something destined to happen.

“He’s talked to us about what teams Seiya would consider,” Wolfe said. “It’s a small universe where Seiya would consider going. Seiya is a very strongly opinionated guy. I could see where that might happen, but it doesn’t sound like it was necessarily likely.”

 

Quote

“I think that if he was being posted in Japan and teams were presenting to him their opportunities and they said you can come here and be our full-time DH, I don’t think he would have signed with that team,” Wolfe said about Suzuki’s feeling on not playing in right field. “Seiya was a great defender in Japan, so it’s not a compliment being a DH.”

 

And the article's kicker: "But at the moment, both Wolfe and team sources suggest such a move seems unlikely."

 

[Bertz]

Quote

Wolfe made it clear that his comments were about Suzuki’s mindset and not a criticism of manager Craig Counsell’s decision to put Suzuki at DH. When asked about the DH on Monday, Hoyer said the team’s preference was to have a rotation so they can get guys off their feet and move different players around.

Via Sahadev.  I don't believe this was included in any of the recaps from Hoyer's media session last night, but today suddenly feels pretty important.

So Suzuki doesn't want to be a full time DH, and Hoyer doesn't want to have a full time DH.  Feels like that means either:

- There is not going to be an everyday addition to the lineup

- Two current hitters are on the way out.  For example Bellinger + Suzuki with Tucker coming in.  Or what feels more realistic something like I mentioned last night of Bellinger + Hoerner out and Brandon Lowe in