White Sox (Flexen) vs Cubs (Imanaga): 6/4/24, 7:05pm

[Brock Beauchamp]

I've been watching a lot of White Sox games lately (vs the Twins and Brewers) and if the Cubs don't win this game by 5+ runs, they should be ashamed of themselves. This Sox squad is one of the worst baseball teams I've ever seen, possibly on par with the 2003 Tigers.

[BigSlick]

I would be upset with anything less than a sweep 

 

EDIT: Oh i thought we were playing 3 games with them, its only two. Ok. Well they still need to sweep them. 

Edited June 4, 2024 by BigSlick

[Bertz]

Flexen was the SP for that 7 run comeback last year against the Mariners I believe.  I don't believe in gimme games in baseball (no game is ever more than ~80/20), but you really gotta get this one.  Tomorrow's a little more forgiving as Fedde's looking solid since he came back to the US.

Very surprised we didn't draw Crochet.  It would have been very 2024 Cubs to draw Crochet and Fedde in both White Sox series.

[WhyCantWeWin]

Zero excuses to not sweep this awful team. 

[Tryptamine]

They need this sweep with them already being 7 games out of the division. They're on the verge of being sellers if they don't have a good next 2 weeks.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Just now, Tryptamine said:

They need this sweep with them already being 7 games out of the division. They're on the verge of being sellers if they don't have a good next 2 weeks.

They are tied for a WC spot, they are not on the verge of being sellers by mid-June without a good 2 weeks.

[Tryptamine]

13 minutes ago, Transmogrified Tiger said:

They are tied for a WC spot, they are not on the verge of being sellers by mid-June without a good 2 weeks.

If they're 10 games out of the division 2 weeks from now, I am not investing in a team that has a chance at a play in game. 

[Rcal10]

3 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

If they're 10 games out of the division 2 weeks from now, I am not investing in a team that has a chance at a play in game. 

What are you talking about? There isn’t a play in game. Winning the division with the 3rd best record is no different than making the WC. You still have to play an extra series. 

Edited June 4, 2024 by Rcal10

[squally1313]

Yeah we aren't making up 12 games to the Phillies or 8.5 to the Dodgers, so we aren't getting a bye. There were probably some (wrong) Diamondbacks fans saying the same thing last year. Give yourself a chance. 

[Transmogrified Tiger]

4 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

If they're 10 games out of the division 2 weeks from now, I am not investing in a team that has a chance at a play in game. 

1. Have whatever standard you want I guess, but essentially every MLB front office, Jed included, will act differently

2. They aren't going to start selling* in mid-June so the arbitrary line being crossed at that point is irrelevant until we get on the other side of the All-Star Break or so

 

*Passan made this point in the context of the Cubs in his early deadline preview today, but there are not obvious pieces they would sell if they disappointed.  It would likely look like the last time the team 'sold', where a couple marginal relievers maybe are outgoing.  The deadline increasingly is mostly rentals and relievers and rental relievers, so I think we probably put too much weight on the buy/sell concept to begin with unless a team is signaling a big shift(like the Astros might this year).  The Cubs have a core for the next ~2 years and aren't going to blow it up, so it's more a question on if they're going to try to grab a couple more wins this year v. not instead of some sea change in the roster.

[Tryptamine]

9 minutes ago, Transmogrified Tiger said:

1. Have whatever standard you want I guess, but essentially every MLB front office, Jed included, will act differently

2. They aren't going to start selling* in mid-June so the arbitrary line being crossed at that point is irrelevant until we get on the other side of the All-Star Break or so

 

*Passan made this point in the context of the Cubs in his early deadline preview today, but there are not obvious pieces they would sell if they disappointed.  It would likely look like the last time the team 'sold', where a couple marginal relievers maybe are outgoing.  The deadline increasingly is mostly rentals and relievers and rental relievers, so I think we probably put too much weight on the buy/sell concept to begin with unless a team is signaling a big shift(like the Astros might this year).  The Cubs have a core for the next ~2 years and aren't going to blow it up, so it's more a question on if they're going to try to grab a couple more wins this year v. not instead of some sea change in the roster.

I'd agree there isn't much to sell, so basically just sitting on their hands is probably the move. I just don't want them using resources trying to bail out a team 10 games out of the division.

[17 Seconds]

9 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

I'd agree there isn't much to sell, so basically just sitting on their hands is probably the move. I just don't want them using resources trying to bail out a team 10 games out of the division.

Why? wc3 is just as good as a central title this year

[Bertz]

The Cubs are actually extremely well set up for the playoffs generally  and that best of 3 round particularly.  Being able to follow up Shota Imanaga with 2-3 innings of Ben Brown is a terrifying prospect.  And then the very next day doing the same thing with like Steele and Horton?  I'm not pissing on that opportunity if the Cubs have the temerity to end up the road team.

 

[Rcal10]

1 hour ago, Tryptamine said:

I'd agree there isn't much to sell, so basically just sitting on their hands is probably the move. I just don't want them using resources trying to bail out a team 10 games out of the division.

You keep referencing 10 games out of the division. They are not that far out now. And they are tied for the WC spot. You add to this team if you can get in the playoffs. So if they are playing 500 ball and in the race for WC, IMO they should add. And, honestly, if they are playing 500 ball I don’t expect them to be more than 5 or 6 games back if the Brewers either. Even though that really doesn’t matter. They just need to get in. I am not suggesting a top prospect for a rental. But they can use some of their excess minor league talent to bring in people who can help this year. They have plenty. 

[SOFNR]

Yah, I'm as sick of watching the recent play as anybody but having a good next two weeks doesn't have much impact on the trade deadline. Last year I think they wanted one more year of selling. This year I doubt they want the bad press. If they're within a few games of the last wildcard they're not likely to be selling unless they've got a guy coming up to take a position. Now if they're gonna be serious buyers they might need to be in a little more comfortable spot. But that's still 8 weeks away. Ideally they'd be interested in adding good players with some control in either situation. Regardless of how this season turns out I wouldn't expect them to be starting over. 

Edited June 4, 2024 by SOFNR

[CubinNY]

Win or lose, I want them to start playing clean games. No base running errors, and no fielding errors. Selective aggression at the plate. Relief pitchers who don't walk the first batter. If they get in the habit of doing that, their talent should keep them in the playoff hunt. 

[Outshined_One]

It's been discussed elsewhere, but it's not like there are great available solutions when it comes to the trade market for where the Cubs can upgrade.  I would be really hesitant to tinker with the OF, SPs, and MIF, plus I'm willing to keep Busch/Bellinger at 1B for the remainder of the season since Busch has some tantalizing peripherals.

That leaves C, 3B, and RP.  I'm really bearish on Bregman and Chapman at 3B since both will likely hit free agency after this season.  Danny Jansen and Elias Diaz would make nice additions at C, but are the Jays and Rockies willing to deal?

As for RP, there's a fascinating crop of closers, but I'm wondering if the Cubs would be better off adding on the periphery so they can launch guys like Cuas into the sun while they wait for Alzolay to return from injury.

[mfcubs22]

5 minutes ago, Outshined_One said:

It's been discussed elsewhere, but it's not like there are great available solutions when it comes to the trade market for where the Cubs can upgrade.  I would be really hesitant to tinker with the OF, SPs, and MIF, plus I'm willing to keep Busch/Bellinger at 1B for the remainder of the season since Busch has some tantalizing peripherals.

That leaves C, 3B, and RP.  I'm really bearish on Bregman and Chapman at 3B since both will likely hit free agency after this season.  Danny Jansen and Elias Diaz would make nice additions at C, but are the Jays and Rockies willing to deal?

As for RP, there's a fascinating crop of closers, but I'm wondering if the Cubs would be better off adding on the periphery so they can launch guys like Cuas into the sun while they wait for Alzolay to return from injury.

I’m not sure I’ll be able to trust Adbert with the 9th again this year, and Neris is a ticking time bomb. Give me a legit closer and then figure out how Almonte, Merryweather, Neris, Leiter, Wesneski/Brown all fit. Plus you have Little, Palencia, Hodge, Smyly and Hendricks. 

[mul21]

28 minutes ago, mfcubs22 said:

I’m not sure I’ll be able to trust Adbert with the 9th again this year, and Neris is a ticking time bomb. Give me a legit closer and then figure out how Almonte, Merryweather, Neris, Leiter, Wesneski/Brown all fit. Plus you have Little, Palencia, Hodge, Smyly and Hendricks. 

I tend to agree with this. and I honestly doubt we see him again this year anyway.  He's out until Mid July minimum anyway and based on the recent move to the 60 day IL, I'm not optimistic he'd be ready even if he gets a clean bill of health.

All those other guys can slot into a setup role but nobody is a lock down closer.  I'd be in favor of going and getting a guy if it looks like the offense is going to help sustain a run the last couple months of the season.

[squally1313]

34 minutes ago, mfcubs22 said:

I’m not sure I’ll be able to trust Adbert with the 9th again this year, and Neris is a ticking time bomb. Give me a legit closer and then figure out how Almonte, Merryweather, Neris, Leiter, Wesneski/Brown all fit. Plus you have Little, Palencia, Hodge, Smyly and Hendricks. 

Define 'legit closer' though, right? With the caveat that they need to be on like, one of the 8 teams that is out of it and would be willing to trade away their guy. 

Reliever fWAR since the beginning of last year:

• Clase - Not going anywhere
• Tanner Scott - Rubber armed stud last year, 18 walks in 23 innings this year
• Hoffman - Not going anywhere
• Fernando Cruz - 34 year old who didn't debut until 2022 and has zero career saves
• Bednar - Been discussed a bunch, 6.17 ERA this year, which is mostly luck driven but still a definitive step back
• Hader - Just don't think there's an appetite for the remaining $85m or so on the contract
• Clay Holmes - not going anywhere
• Hunter Harvey - seems like a stud, team is going nowhere, not closing for them this year
• Strahm/Brash/Jax/Munoz - all good teams, not going anywhere
• Alexis Diaz - has been bad this year
• Robertson - not going anywhere
• Floro - good I guess? Doesn't scream 'legit closer', not closing for them, but all that just means cheaper

tldr: It's not like there's a ton of these guys out there

[SOFNR]

I'd love a legit closer but I'm hesistant to use valuable trade currency to aquire one. The Cubs have some great arms in their system. They should be able to develop one.

Edited June 4, 2024 by SOFNR

[KCCub]

29 minutes ago, SOFNR said:

I'd love a legit closer but I'm hesistant to use valuable trade currency to aquire one. The Cubs have some great arms in their system. They should be able to develop one.

I sure hope they can break the trend, but Alzolay is the closest thing the Cubs have had to an internally developed closer since Rondon. 

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Setting aside the closer/legit debate, they do need another strong leverage reliever.  Right now that circle of trust is basically Neris, Leiter Jr, and kinda Wesneski?  Not good enough.  Getting Almonte(who I like) back a week before the ASB, Merryweather hopefully around the deadline, and Alzolay in late 2025 around the same time doesn't change the near-term outlook. Plus the guys who might get pushed off the roster even with everyone healthy have not established themselves as guys who must stay on the roster no matter what(otherwise we wouldn't need another leverage reliever!).

[LBiittner]

I'm really hoping imanaga looks good tonight. 

[KCCub]

Tommy Pham to the IL, so we get to miss that fun. Also, Rosenthal reporting that the Padres are pursuing Crochet.