Cubs offseason chit chat...

[CubinNY]

1 minute ago, chopsx9 said:

Yeah that seems a little heavy.

a little?

[Tryptamine]

This is what Toronto fans think is fair.....

[UMFan83]

1 hour ago, Bertz said:

Yeah let's not go crazy on what Bichette costs.  Bichette was 48th in MLB in position player WAR last year.  Ian Happ, who half the fanbase wants to fire into the sun, was 56th.  A Bichette trade will hurt, but let's not act like it'll be something wild like what the Nats got for Juan Soto.

Plus I would assume his WAR would go down moving from SS to 3B, though a lot of his value is his bat. 

[javy knows my name]

18 minutes ago, Petrey10 said:

He only has 2 years of control left. 
 

I think you could get Bo, Soto and Alonso for very little farm hurt for the caliber of player you get back.

 

plus you got some money to sign either jap SP

Edited November 22, 2023 by javy knows my name

[We Got The Whole 9]

20 minutes ago, Petrey10 said:

He only has 2 years of control left. 
 

I think you could get Bo, Soto and Alonso for very little farm hurt for the caliber of player you get back.

 

plus you got some money to sign either jap SP

2 years of control at 22m

[squally1313]

30 minutes ago, Cuzi said:

In what world? You'd be lucky to only have PCA and Horton left.

Eff it, I'm bored

• Soto: Morel and Assad gives you more value going to the Padres than us getting back 
• Bichette: PCA and Ben Brown gives you more value going to the BJs than us getting back
• Alonso: Mervis, Canario, Wesneski gives you more value going to the Mets than us getting back

All per BBTV, by the way. BP put out the following top 10 list last week, crossed out names would be gone

1. PCA
2. Shaw
3. Horton
4. Caissie
5. Alcantara
6. Ballesteros
7. Triantos
8. Wicks
9. Rojas
10. Brown

You can argue that it should be like, Alcantara instead of Canario to give them an impact player back, sure. But that's still leaving the top 10 mostly intact. For a lineup of:

1. Happ
2. Soto
3. Bichette
4. Alonso
5. Suzuki
6. Swanson
7. Horner
8. Tauchman/whoever
9. Gomes/Amaya

Will it happen? No. Could it happen? Kinda?

 

[Bertz]

Relevant to this ongoing discussion we've got a projection for Bichette: a SLG-heavy .800 OPS AND 3.9 WAR.

Relatedly that Brandon Belt projection is very nifty for a guy who's going to get something like 1/$10-15M.  He's my guy if our big move on offense is a RHH such as Bichette.

[WhyCantWeWin]

That extra year of control is really valuable. You guys are thinking too light

[LBiittner]

Gosh, we're talking about ohtani, soto, alonzo and bichette. How much fun is this?

[JHBulls]

3 hours ago, 1908_Cubs said:

Holy awfully worded tweet, batman! With careful reading you can tell hes saying Yamamoto will get $200m, but it wouldn't be hard to read that and think he's suggesting Imanaga will (he won't)

I am struggling to get passed the misspelling of Sawamura. 🤦 

[Petrey10]

2 hours ago, Tryptamine said:

Are you saying all 3 of them? There would basically be no farm left after that.

That’s what the farm is for. Also I am only doing it if they can lock BB and Soto up long term. 
 

you then have 2-3 years to build the farm back up. International signings, draft and some minor trades.

That’s a hell of a team.

 

 

[Petrey10]

2 hours ago, We Got The Whole 9 said:

2 years of control at 22m

Uh huh… 

[LBiittner]

44 minutes ago, TomtheBombadil said:

Gimme Belt at 1B no matter what they do elsewhere. Solid projection, great experience, LHH, low commit etc etc

At first thought, Belt probably translated to another Hosmer/Mancini debacle. But in reality he had a very good productive season in 2023. I'd be satisfied with his addition, provided Jed steps up and does some nice magic with the roster.

 

[chopsx9]

1 hour ago, Petrey10 said:

That’s what the farm is for. Also I am only doing it if they can lock BB and Soto up long term. 
 

 

Right...but that's the big issue you're not going to be able to know that before you trade for them.

[chopsx9]

1 hour ago, LBiittner said:

At first thought, Belt probably translated to another Hosmer/Mancini debacle. But in reality he had a very good productive season in 2023. I'd be satisfied with his addition, provided Jed steps up and does some nice magic with the roster.

 

Belt's 36 and talked about retiring at the end of last year.  Mancini - at 30 - had the same WAR with Baltimore in 2022 that Belt had in 2023.   I mean if there's no-one to play 1B and Spring Training  is 2 weeks away and he's going to sign for less than a Million...

[ToolDRT]

Again, nothing specific here. I don’t know exactly why it keeps coming up when it sounds more like a speculative fit. Gonna share it anyway. 
 

 

[chopsx9]

5 minutes ago, ToolDRT said:

Again, nothing specific here. I don’t know exactly why it keeps coming up when it sounds more like a speculative fit. Gonna share it anyway. 
 

I'm not buying it.  Over the last year and a half the media/fans have really soured on Vladdy as he has continued a decline from 2021 numbers.  Bichette is the face of the franchise currently and when extension talk comes up it's Bichette that "needs" to be extended not Vladdy.  The Moreno trade is brought up constantly - the Jays need to publicly "win" a trade so they're not giving anyone away.  There in "win now" mode so I don't think they are interested in prospects.  I think Vladdy could be had and maybe Manoah but I'd be Craig Counsel surprised if Bichette went anywhere and even more so if it were for prospects.

[JD94]

Heyman saying Padres want 2 top 100 prospects for Soto. 
 

Side note: These comments never make sense to me. That theoretically could mean the #92 and #93 prospect while somebody else could offer the #26 and #39 prospect. Every org is going to have their own rankings anyways. Do the Padres want near ready bats? Near ready arms? Best player available regardless of how far away they are from the bigs? So again, 2 top 100 prospects tells me nothing… or tells me Heyman doesn’t know anything. 

[Cuzi]

13 minutes ago, TomtheBombadil said:

Nice, I much prefer Vlad Jr. to Bichette. He’s a little GB happy especially at his worst, but that’s the only complaint and the lineup’s arguably more starved for high EV, barrel, and hard contact hitters who also don’t strike out 

What’s a Vlad trade look like? Shaw, Alcantara, Canario, Wesneski, Kilian?

Are you just naming guys, or actually putting together a 5 player package for Vlad Jr?

Even the best guys in the game dont command that many players on their own because there's a break point where it becomes not worth it. Not even Juan Soto brought back 5 players on his own. The Nationals gave up Soto and Bell to get 5 prospects and a salary dump MLBer. There's no shot the Blue Jays are getting 5 prospects for 2 years of Vlad Jr who was a 1 WAR player last year. He's worth far less than Bichette, not only because of positional worth and actual performance on the field, but because Vlad Jr is going to go through the arb process and is going to cost more than Bo Bichette over those 2 years.

Vlad Jr is probably pretty close to worthless right now. So the idea of him getting traded is probably a stretch, because it's worth far more to the Blue Jays to hope he turns it around.

Edited November 23, 2023 by Cuzi

[JD94]

Take the name off the back of his jersey, and Vladdy isn’t all that appealing. He’s also approaching DH only territory as he’s an awful first baseman. Would I want him in a trade? Yes. Would I give up any prospect in our top 10 for him? Probably not. Bichette > Vlad all day everyday. 

Edited November 23, 2023 by JD94

[Cuzi]

1 minute ago, JD94 said:

Take the name off the back of his jersey, and Vladdy isn’t all that appealing. He’s also approaching DH only territory as he’s an awful first baseman. Would I want him in a trade? Yes. Would I give up any prospect in our top 10 for him? Probably not. Bichette > Vlad all day everyday. 

He's still plenty appealing to me. I would have no problem giving up a player in our top 10 for him. The guy is still like 90 percentile in literally every batted ball statistic and he's elite in K% takes above average walks. There's a lot to like about his potential still.

The problem is, I wouldn't give up much more than just 1 player in our top 10 for him and that's unlikely to get much traction from the Blue Jays because of everything I just said about his potential.

[JD94]

2 minutes ago, Cuzi said:

He's still plenty appealing to me. I would have no problem giving up a player in our top 10 for him. The guy is still like 90 percentile in literally every batted ball statistic and he's elite in K% takes above average walks. There's a lot to like about his potential still.

The problem is, I wouldn't give up much more than just 1 player in our top 10 for him and that's unlikely to get much traction from the Blue Jays because of everything I just said about his potential.

I would give up a top 10 prospect if Vlad is going to DH. If you tell me we also sign Ohtani and we can get Vlad, but he has to play 1B, then I would find it hard to give up a top 10 prospect for a 1 fWAR first baseman. Agree on the bat… it’s awesome. 

[Tryptamine]

3 minutes ago, JD94 said:

I would give up a top 10 prospect if Vlad is going to DH. If you tell me we also sign Ohtani and we can get Vlad, but he has to play 1B, then I would find it hard to give up a top 10 prospect for a 1 fWAR first baseman. Agree on the bat… it’s awesome. 

Was awesome, but continues to get worse each year. You could literally put Morel at 1B and probably get better production. 

[Rcal10]

4 minutes ago, JD94 said:

I would give up a top 10 prospect if Vlad is going to DH. If you tell me we also sign Ohtani and we can get Vlad, but he has to play 1B, then I would find it hard to give up a top 10 prospect for a 1 fWAR first baseman. Agree on the bat… it’s awesome. 

I don’t understand . His bat is awesome for a DH but not for a first baseman? I also have read how bad he is defensively. Didn’t he win a GG in 22’? 

[Tryptamine]

2 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

I don’t understand . His bat is awesome for a DH but not for a first baseman? I also have read how bad he is defensively. Didn’t he win a GG in 22’? 

Gold gloves mean next to nothing. He was literally the worst defensive 1B with at least 200 PAs in 2023.