Cubs offseason chit chat...

[Cuzi]

9 minutes ago, 17 Seconds said:

3b is not middle infield, which we were clearly talking about

3B is the same positional adjustment in WAR calculations as 2B. What are you talking about?

[17 Seconds]

5 minutes ago, Cuzi said:

3B is the same positional adjustment in WAR calculations as 2B. What are you talking about?

I didn't know that, my bad. but the original point was that you don't need to be a positive defender to add positional value, which is what you implied. if Ross felt he was even passable at third, he would have played.

[Cuzi]

1 minute ago, 17 Seconds said:

I didn't know that, my bad. but the original point was that you don't need to be a positive defender to add positional value, which is what you implied. if Ross felt he was even passable at third, he would have played.

So, after all this "do you even understand positional value?" circus, you have circled back to my very initial response in that just because Morel is playing defense doesn't make him a 3 WAR player? What a waste of time.

[17 Seconds]

1 minute ago, Cuzi said:

So, after all this "do you even understand positional value?" circus, you have circled back to my very initial response in that just because Morel is playing defense doesn't make him a 3 WAR player? What a waste of time.

I knew right when I responded this was going to be exahusting

[Bertz]

 

 

[Stratos]

1 hour ago, 17 Seconds said:

I didn't know that, my bad. but the original point was that you don't need to be a positive defender to add positional value, which is what you implied. if Ross felt he was even passable at third, he would have played.

That's hard to say, since Madrigal was putting up gold glove caliber defense at 3B and no obvious good bat on the bench to move into the DH slot if Morel moved to 3b.

[Rcal10]

1 minute ago, Stratos said:

That's hard to say, since Madrigal was putting up gold glove caliber defense at 3B and no obvious good bat on the bench to move into the DH slot if Morel moved to 3b.

I also don’t think he wanted to mess with Morel and put him at 3rd during the year when he was doing fine at DH. I know the consensus opinion is the Cubs have given up on him playing third. And they very well could be right. But I haven’t given up the idea. And if he could that would solve one position cheaply. That would allow for either Ohtani or Soto plus either Hoskins or an Alonso trade and still sign a quality higher priced starting pitcher and maybe a trade for a controllable one like Woo. If they did that without dealing Morel they would be losing some of that minor league talent they have. Of course if it’s Ohtani and Hoskins signed as well as a FA pitcher, rather than trading for the others, there would be only 1 trade of minor league talent. If only Morel could play borderline average 3rd base. 

[Stratos]

3 hours ago, Rcal10 said:

I also don’t think he wanted to mess with Morel and put him at 3rd during the year when he was doing fine at DH. I know the consensus opinion is the Cubs have given up on him playing third. And they very well could be right. But I haven’t given up the idea. And if he could that would solve one position cheaply. That would allow for either Ohtani or Soto plus either Hoskins or an Alonso trade and still sign a quality higher priced starting pitcher and maybe a trade for a controllable one like Woo. If they did that without dealing Morel they would be losing some of that minor league talent they have. Of course if it’s Ohtani and Hoskins signed as well as a FA pitcher, rather than trading for the others, there would be only 1 trade of minor league talent. If only Morel could play borderline average 3rd base. 

I think Ross put the best team on the field in order to win the most games

[Derwood]

9 hours ago, CubinNY said:

I want Eloy back too. 

And Jon Garland

[Rcal10]

1 hour ago, Stratos said:

I think Ross put the best team on the field in order to win the most games

I agree. The best team did not include working Morel at third during the season. It was best for the team for Morel to DH. 

[ToolDRT]

 

[CubinNY]

11 minutes ago, ToolDRT said:

 

Who replaced Tommy Boy with a look-alike who doesn't mind thinking big? 

I want to give that person a medal. 

[Jason Ross]

This Bichette thing might have legs...

[ToolDRT]

I’m very interested and very scared of the possible return 

[WhyCantWeWin]

Steele would HAVE to be included in a trade for Bichette right?

[KCCub]

It's exciting if the Cubs are truly inquiring about trades of this magnitude. I have a hard time believing it from the Blue Jays perspective however. I understand they would get an absolute haul, but they're currently in their window of competing. They have their top 4 SP locked up and still multiple years of their young position core. I could maybe understand it if they had a sure fire SS replacement waiting in the wings, but that's not the case either. Barger is not that guy.

[Bertz]

12 minutes ago, WhyCantWeWin said:

Steele would HAVE to be included in a trade for Bichette right?

I would think so.  They currently here at the outset of the offseason project for the 5th most WAR in baseball.  They're going to want major league impact right away.  Mayyyybe PCA since he's MLB ready right this second?

[KCCub]

On a slow day of work I'm trying to make sense of this from the Blue Jays side if we live in a world where this is remotely true. Outside the box here - what would you guys feel like with a Hoerner for Bichette swap? From the Cubs side, we get our 3b bat that we've been desperately looking for and it would find a home for Morel at 2b. IF defense would take a large step back but IF offense would take a step forwards. From the Jays perspective, they get an extra year of control with Hoerner at the same price as Bichette + upgrades their defense at SS by a lot. 

I just don't see this being true without the Jays getting an impact MLBer back and I can't handle a world where we are trading our best cost controlled SP. 

[Bertz]

So looking at the Blue Jays roster and their prospect list on FG, they do have reinforcements coming behind Bichette.  Their #2, #4, and #6 prospects are SS's/3B's who have reached AAA.  They could also shift Espinal to SS and give Cavan Biggio more of a fulltime look at 2B.  Their OF looks pretty bleak organizationally besides Varsho and Springer.  Like FG has Nathan Lukes, who was a 28 year oold rookie last year, as their starting LF.

So if you do something like PCA, Nick Madrigal (as a bridge infielder), and some pitching, I can see how that makes sense from Toronto's POV?  Like I wouldn't do it given where they are in the win curve, but it's not completely nuts.

On our side Bichette obviously does a ton.  There simply aren't options available at 1B/DH that offer his level of impact at such a low salary.  I'll also say as someone very anti-Bellinger if we add Bichette for PCA he suddenly makes wayyyyyy more sense on this roster.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

16 minutes ago, KCCub said:

On a slow day of work I'm trying to make sense of this from the Blue Jays side if we live in a world where this is remotely true. Outside the box here - what would you guys feel like with a Hoerner for Bichette swap? From the Cubs side, we get our 3b bat that we've been desperately looking for and it would find a home for Morel at 2b. IF defense would take a large step back but IF offense would take a step forwards. From the Jays perspective, they get an extra year of control with Hoerner at the same price as Bichette + upgrades their defense at SS by a lot. 

I just don't see this being true without the Jays getting an impact MLBer back and I can't handle a world where we are trading our best cost controlled SP. 

I don't feel like there's much point in a Hoerner for Bichette swap.  Hoerner is a similar caliber of player on a manageable extension, so even if you like Bichette a bit better it's a lot of thrash for little benefit.

I tend to think this is still more speculative, but I think from the Blue Jays perspective sending Bichette to the Cubs is more about assets than specific players desired in return.  Their farm system is in pretty dire shape, and while they aren't the Padres they don't have a huge amount of financial breathing room to make multiple impact signings.  So trading Bichette would let them get the assets needed to trade for an SP or OF, or maybe split the difference and get Morel as a helpful bat plus other stuff you can use to help get e.g. Glasnow or Burnes.  As you allude to Bichette isn't much of a SS defender, so an internal solution or cheaper external addition may upgrade there and have compounding benefits(especially after losing Chapman's glove).  Still seems like longshot territory to me, but that would be an extremely fun addition.

[ILMindState]

 

[JD94]

Maybe we laughed at the random guy on Twitter too quickly. This seems real 

[Jason Ross]

8 minutes ago, ILMindState said:

 

Holy awfully worded tweet, batman! With careful reading you can tell hes saying Yamamoto will get $200m, but it wouldn't be hard to read that and think he's suggesting Imanaga will (he won't)

Edited November 22, 2023 by 1908_Cubs

[CubinNY]

I still don't see it from the Blue Jays perspective. I'd love to know which side the leak is coming from. If it's the Blue Jays who are leaking this, it could be a real sign they are looking to deal. If it's the Cubs side... someone is trying to sell tickets. 

It's very unusual for Jed's team to let this stuff leak out. Not so much for the operations team.

Edited November 22, 2023 by CubinNY

[Dfan25]

Maybe Morel goes back to Toronto to play 2B . Morel +PCA and keep adding . Trading Steele doesn’t make much sense for the Cubs IMO. . They are looking to add a TOR arm to go with him .