Cubs offseason chit chat...

[Jason Ross]

1 minute ago, WhyCantWeWin said:

Idk man, Hoyer seems to think there's no such thing as a bad 1 year deal. No matter how terrible the player is. Never seen a pobo/gm with such an aversion for long term deals as him, seems like those last few years of the Theo reign where Ricketts refused to sign off on any additional dollars spent on payroll really scared him. 

I think we have to accept that the way the Cubs behavior from 2021-2022 will likely be different over the next few years. If it was 2021, or 2022, I would think that he might try. But Dom Smith isn't young any more, and he's just bad. Even when the Cubs pickup players I think are bad, they're guys who were hovering around league average (for their position) wRC+. 

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Hoyer signed 5 different free agents to multi-year deals last year alone(7 players total if you want to count the multi-year extensions given to Nico and Happ).  About a quarter of the current roster are on 3+ year guaranteed deals signed by Jed. The idea that he's artificially limiting himself to the bottom of the barrel since they don't require multi-year deals isn't backed by objective reality.

[Bertz]

Jim Bowden is the joke of all jokes.  HOWEVER, his contract predictions at the start of each offseason have a history of being shockingly solid. 

https://theathletic.com/5008102/2023/10/31/mlb-free-agents-2023-contract-team-predictions?source=user-shared-article

He has Mitch Garver getting 2/$20M and Jeimer Candelario getting 2/$15.  Brandon Belt isn't projected, but him not being a Top 40 FA is a clear sign he's not going to break the bank either.  But those are 3 very solid 1B options slated to make "other bat" money. (I do expect that Candelario will make more than Bowden says)

I think 3B if we don't bring back Candelario is where we're most likely to look in March and be like "Uhhhhh Jed I think that part of the roster could have used a bit more love."

As an aside I love that we finally have all this young pitching and don't have to shop for rotation depth, but this would be a very good winter to be in the market for a back-end arm or two.  Where was this in like 2019?

[JHBulls]

24 minutes ago, Bertz said:

Jim Bowden is the joke of all jokes.  HOWEVER, his contract predictions at the start of each offseason have a history of being shockingly solid. 

https://theathletic.com/5008102/2023/10/31/mlb-free-agents-2023-contract-team-predictions?source=user-shared-article

He has Mitch Garver getting 2/$20M and Jeimer Candelario getting 2/$15.  Brandon Belt isn't projected, but him not being a Top 40 FA is a clear sign he's not going to break the bank either.  But those are 3 very solid 1B options slated to make "other bat" money. (I do expect that Candelario will make more than Bowden says)

I think 3B if we don't bring back Candelario is where we're most likely to look in March and be like "Uhhhhh Jed I think that part of the roster could have used a bit more love."

As an aside I love that we finally have all this young pitching and don't have to shop for rotation depth, but this would be a very good winter to be in the market for a back-end arm or two.  Where was this in like 2019?

The link in my post opens The Athletic paywall for that article.

https://archive.md/a3mtT

The next link is the website that bypasses the paywall, I have yet to find a paywalled article that it doesn’t work for. Copy any paywalled articles URL, paste where it says “My url is alive and I want to archive its content” and hit save. Most articles open up instantaneous and others can take 2-3 minutes. Good website for anyone to bookmark. 

https://archive.md

Edited November 2, 2023 by JHBulls

[Stratos]

On 10/31/2023 at 1:55 PM, Cuzi said:

If he was only a DH, would the talk of him getting $500-600M exist?

Amazing talent, but there's questions like how does he come back from the TJS, and how long can he be effective both pitching and hitting, or even keep that up?  You paying him 45m a year in the last half of his 30's if he's not a 2-way guy?  Will be interesting to see who wins that bidding war.  I have no idea how you'd put a price on that guy with those questions.

[CubinNY]

8 hours ago, Stratos said:

Amazing talent, but there's questions like how does he come back from the TJS, and how long can he be effective both pitching and hitting, or even keep that up?  You paying him 45m a year in the last half of his 30's if he's not a 2-way guy?  Will be interesting to see who wins that bidding war.  I have no idea how you'd put a price on that guy with those questions.

LA Dodgers will win the bidding war. He will become a shutdown closer. 

[CubinNY]

3 hours ago, TomtheBombadil said:

I hope we all can understand how un-sane it would be to skip on Shohei Ohtani because he’s only an early 2024 MVP favorite on one side of the ball and, even more nebulously, some trumped up worry about what $45 million on him looks like 7 years from now if he’s only a perennial MVP candidate on offense. The second TJ is another trumped up charge.

Is any other player seeking a new contract being held to anywhere name the same standard? Plan A seems to be trading (cheaply, alwaaaaaays cheaply) a 25 YO on a HoF track, paying him $40+ a year, and all for the opportunity to force him onto 1B or DH. Now alluva sudden that salary range *requires* two way ability? There doesn’t seem to be any rules or consistency to the approach other than to nickel and dime players, push them around a little bit so they know we know they have the aging disease and who’s boss 

We get it already. Anytime someone posts about another player just assume that the person also wants the Cubs to make a play for Ohtani. It will help to keep the frustration level down for you.

Edited November 2, 2023 by CubinNY

[Transmogrified Tiger]

No one thinks Soto and Ohtani will command the same money in a long term deal.  Any convergence towards towards that point is a function of Soto being significantly younger and not a conspiracy to not recognize how good Ohtani is.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

7 minutes ago, TomtheBombadil said:

I believe it solely because all the givens and assumptions seem to be - purely coincidentally of course - born from convenience. Of *course* the assumption has to be the 25 YO superstar on a HoF track will sign for less, what else would hold the story together? 

I would gently suggest you just say the opinions you think and respond to the specific things people say, and spend less time and words worrying about the 'narrative' or arguing against a nebulous prevailing opinion you think you're seeing.  When you focus on the latter everything veers into being a screed that is difficult to parse and understand, much less interact with.

[Tryptamine]

I'm going to assume that 2/15 for Jeimer means 2 years at 15M each because if it's actually 2/15 then he needs to be a Cub immediately. 

[chibears55]

Let the offseason begin..

Congrats to the Rangers,  was hoping they'd win their first championship. 

https://www.bleachernation.com/cubs/2023/11/02/mlb-dates-deadlines/

[chibears55]

I'd love to have Ohtani,  but if it means having Ohtani and a bunch of cheap lesser players because of Ohtani cost and Ricketts wanting to stay under the Threshold, then I'd prefer to split Ohtani money towards upgrading other positions.

My hope for this offseason will be to see them keep Bellinger, add another under 30 quality bat, add an under 30 TOR type SP, and at least 1 strong bullpen arm.

I just wanna see progress in their roster to where we can at least see them being successful all season and hopeful for the next couple seasons because of their systems talent are starting to come up and they'll be able to upgrade where needed via trades and future FA.

 

[Y2J]

3 hours ago, chibears55 said:

Let the offseason begin..

Congrats to the Rangers,  was hoping they'd win their first championship. 

https://www.bleachernation.com/cubs/2023/11/02/mlb-dates-deadlines/

I didn't have a horse in this race, but happy for the Rangers. 2011 was tough to watch for a multitude of reasons.

[Tim]

I'm hoping owners see the Rangers making heavy investments two years in a row and that resulting in a World Series victory.

What a concept

[We Got The Whole 9]

8 minutes ago, Tim said:

I'm hoping owners see the Rangers making heavy investments two years in a row and that resulting in a World Series victory.

What a concept

They could also say the team that eeked in with a largely homegrown roster made it to the dance

[Bertz]

 

 

Kantrovitz staying

[JBears79]

Soler opted out of his final year. Any interest there? We do need power.

[JHBulls]

4 minutes ago, JBears79 said:

Soler opted out of his final year. Any interest there? We do need power.

 Wouldn’t say no for a couple of years. 

[Y2J]

Something tells me returning to Chicago won't be Soler's top preference...

[thawv]

11 hours ago, JBears79 said:

Soler opted out of his final year. Any interest there? We do need power.

For the cost vs production, I think that Morel is the better option.

 

[Rcal10]

1 hour ago, thawv said:

For the cost vs production, I think that Morel is the better option.

 

But if Morel can play 3rd they can have both. Not suggesting they get Soler, just saying if they did it wouldn’t have to be either or. 

[thawv]

8 hours ago, Rcal10 said:

But if Morel can play 3rd they can have both. Not suggesting they get Soler, just saying if they did it wouldn’t have to be either or. 

Morel has played about 1500 innings at 3B.  He could have played there last year.  But the Cubs chose to put a guy who's never played the position in his life there over Morel.  I think the Cubs know that he's pretty much a DH for the most part. 

[Rcal10]

1 minute ago, thawv said:

Morel has played about 1500 innings at 3B.  He could have played there last year.  But the Cubs chose to put a guy who's never played the position in his life there over Morel.  I think the Cubs know that he's pretty much a DH for the most part. 

I don’t. I think the Cubs wanted to groom Morel to be a guy for multiple positions. So they put Madrigal at 3rd to build up his stock a little. Then when they brought Morel up he hadn’t worked at 3rd base. They wanted his bat and didn’t want to mess with him learning 3rd base on the fly. Learning during the season which could have affected his hitting. So now this off season they need for him to just play 3rd and work with coaches specifically on playing 3rd. Maybe he can’t do it. But I think they are going to give him every opportunity to prove he either can or can’t. What decision they made last year, IMO, has no bearing on what they do this year. 

[Transmogrified Tiger]

6 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

I don’t. I think the Cubs wanted to groom Morel to be a guy for multiple positions. So they put Madrigal at 3rd to build up his stock a little. Then when they brought Morel up he hadn’t worked at 3rd base. They wanted his bat and didn’t want to mess with him learning 3rd base on the fly. Learning during the season which could have affected his hitting. So now this off season they need for him to just play 3rd and work with coaches specifically on playing 3rd. Maybe he can’t do it. But I think they are going to give him every opportunity to prove he either can or can’t. What decision they made last year, IMO, has no bearing on what they do this year. 

Morel has spent most of his professional career playing at 3B and on the left side of the infield, he has played more 3B than any other position.  I think it's perfectly reasonable to believe he could be a playable 3B, but I also think we need to use Occam's razor when it comes to *what the Cubs think* of his 3B ability.  They had plenty of opportunity to give him chances at 3B(across 2 seasons!) and declined to do so.  The idea that all of a sudden out of the offseason he's going to be preferred over the same cast of characters requires a lot of mental gymnastics.

[Rcal10]

17 minutes ago, Transmogrified Tiger said:

Morel has spent most of his professional career playing at 3B and on the left side of the infield, he has played more 3B than any other position.  I think it's perfectly reasonable to believe he could be a playable 3B, but I also think we need to use Occam's razor when it comes to *what the Cubs think* of his 3B ability.  They had plenty of opportunity to give him chances at 3B(across 2 seasons!) and declined to do so.  The idea that all of a sudden out of the offseason he's going to be preferred over the same cast of characters requires a lot of mental gymnastics.

And there was no inclination Madrigal could play 3rd either, until he did. In the end, Morel may not be able to do it. Maybe they do know it already. But if they are not certain giving him this off season to work in it doesn’t hurt anything. It could only increase his stock. If he can’t do it, IMO, he will be traded. And that is ok too. I think fans and posters are way to quick on making opinions on players. We don’t know why he didn’t play there. We don’t know why the Cubs seemed to want him as a super utility guy. We all just speculate. How many people were wrong in Masrigal? How many felt it was a stunt by the cubs to see if they can raise his value. How many are surprised at how elk he did? Since Morel has played some third why is it so silly an idea to think that if the Cubs worked with him exclusively at 3rd he could turn into an average, playable 3rd baseman? I don’t even know what mental gymnastics are, but I don’t feel that is a requirement to at least believe he might be able to do it.