Bears week 3 @ KC, Sunday 3:25 on FOX

[WrigleyField 22]

20 minutes ago, Hairyducked Idiot said:

The coaching staff didn't ruin him.  He's exactly who he's always been.  This is why he dropped in the draft.  This is who he was in his rookie season. This is who he was last year.

 

The excuses have swirled and shifted, but he has remained constant.

I know what you mean, but at the same time, slower release QB templates were always available to model his game after.  If you're going to try and overhaul that instead of leaning in and playing to his strengths, you better have a great developmental system ready which they never did.  

[Have a seat, Neifi]

CJ Stroud with 906 passing yards in his first 3 NFL starts, BTW.

[Tryptamine]

7 minutes ago, Have a seat, Neifi said:

CJ Stroud with 906 passing yards in his first 3 NFL starts, BTW.

and 4 TD with no picks.

[WrigleyField 22]

13 minutes ago, Have a seat, Neifi said:

CJ Stroud with 906 passing yards in his first 3 NFL starts, BTW.

Funniest possible outcome of all this.  I should have known not to give and and actively be happy for the tank last year.  

[jersey cubs fan]

16 minutes ago, WrigleyField 22 said:

Funniest possible outcome of all this.  I should have known not to give and and actively be happy for the tank last year.  

I’m having second thoughts on my take from last year, when I assumed Poles actively tanked. 
 

I think maybe he thought the team would be considerably better and then just stumbled into the top pick. 

[CubinNY]

I think we could all postmortem the Fields situation forever. The Bears drafted a kid who had an up-and-down record as a passer but possessed tremendous athletic ability. They knew the flaws he had. What we don't know is what efforts were made to correct the flaws and what Poles et al. knew about those efforts after they took over. In the NFL if you don't have a QB, you are not going to win. If they thought they could correct the flaws and improve his play, they missed badly. If they didn't think they could correct them, waiting for the right time to draft a QB is NOW not two years later.  

[WrigleyField 22]

2 minutes ago, jersey cubs fan said:

I’m having second thoughts on my take from last year, when I assumed Poles actively tanked. 
 

I think maybe he thought the team would be considerably better and then just stumbled into the top pick. 

I've definitely considered that as well (Claypool trade being an obvious piece of evidence).  Then the Ogunjobi signing he initially committed to before backing out.

 

Be hilarious/sad if missing Ogunjobi (and also rumors he missed narrowly on that Rams center) just started series of misses he's been flailing wildly at ever since.

[jersey cubs fan]

1 hour ago, gflore34 said:

The real kick in the balls is going to be after the Bears fire Poles, he'll learn from his plethora of mistakes and, go on be a successful GM.  While football gut Warren hires the next horsefeathers up, cluster horsefeathers, whatever.

There’s been a lot of failed guys let go by the bears. Have any of them either returned to or achieved greater success than they did with the Bears?

 

They generally don’t let good ones get away, with the possible exception of position coaches (Staley) and coordinators (Rivera) moving onto greater things. 

[gflore34]

2 minutes ago, jersey cubs fan said:

There’s been a lot of failed guys let go by the bears. Have any of them either returned to or achieved greater success than they did with the Bears?

 

They generally don’t let good ones get away, with the possible exception of position coaches (Staley) and coordinators (Rivera) moving onto greater things. 

You're correct, more of an over reaction on my part, he's not good and will probably never be a GM again.

[WrigleyField 22]

2 minutes ago, jersey cubs fan said:

There’s been a lot of failed guys let go by the bears. Have any of them either returned to or achieved greater success than they did with the Bears?

 

They generally don’t let good ones get away, with the possible exception of position coaches (Staley) and coordinators (Rivera) moving onto greater things. 

Yea, Rivera is best they "let get away". Some of their personnel guys from the mid-90s (when they operated without a GM) went on to have some okay success, but certainly not in a regretful way.

 

Doubt Poles ever gets another chance, unless, similar to Nagy, he heads back to KC and just waits to be next in line of succession.

 

Wild card thought is Cunningham who many fans have been banking on getting comp draft picks from and viewed as a hot candidate.  This season either tarnishes his reputation or Bears cend up cutting him loose (with FO overhaul) before he ever can convert into comp picks.

[Old Style]

2 hours ago, gflore34 said:

The real kick in the balls is going to be after the Bears fire Poles, he'll learn from his plethora of mistakes and, go on be a successful GM.  While football gut Warren hires the next horsefeathers up, cluster horsefeathers, whatever.

I think the more likely groin strike would be Fields going to a team with real coaches and showing he wasn't the problem here.

[champaignchris]

59 minutes ago, jersey cubs fan said:

There’s been a lot of failed guys let go by the bears. Have any of them either returned to or achieved greater success than they did with the Bears?

 

They generally don’t let good ones get away, with the possible exception of position coaches (Staley) and coordinators (Rivera) moving onto greater things. 

Dave Wannstedt was generally successful at his post Bears stops. .575 winning percentage over 11 seasons at both the Dolphins and Pitt. 
 

I still think that he could have been successful in Chicago had they paired him with an actual general manager instead of whatever the bizarre three-headed personnel monster they went with. 

[jersey cubs fan]

5 minutes ago, champaignchris said:

Dave Wannstedt was generally successful at his post Bears stops. .575 winning percentage over 11 seasons at both the Dolphins and Pitt. 
 

I still think that he could have been successful in Chicago had they paired him with an actual general manager instead of whatever the bizarre three-headed personnel monster they went with. 

No fans of those teams agree. Wanny was nothing to regret losing  

[UMFan83]

11 minutes ago, Old Style said:

I think the more likely groin strike would be Fields going to a team with real coaches and showing he wasn't the problem here.

Can count the times that's happened in the last 30 years with a QB before on 1 hand probably

-Brees, who already had a pro bowl season in SD, but improved to a HOFer in NO

-Favre who never really got a real shot in Atlanta and was shipped out partly due to attitude issues

-Alex Smith was successful in SF and led them to the playoffs but found another gear under Andy Reid in KC

I think that's about it though I might be missing someone obvious. None of them had a 3 year shot and completely failed before becoming a star elsewhere.  Not sure if its because misdeveloped QBs are ruined and can't be fixed after 3+ years or if its because good QBs will find a way to have some degree of success regardless of how bad the circumstances are around them.

Though if there was ever a franchise that could misdevelop a QB and see him turn into a star elsewhere its the Bears.  

Edited September 25, 2023 by UMFan83

[Old Style]

14 minutes ago, UMFan83 said:

Can count the times that's happened in the last 30 years with a QB before on 1 hand probably

-Brees, who already had a pro bowl season in SD, but improved to a HOFer in NO

-Favre who never really got a real shot in Atlanta and was shipped out partly due to attitude issues

-Alex Smith was successful in SF and led them to the playoffs but found another gear under Andy Reid in KC

I think that's about it though I might be missing someone obvious. None of them had a 3 year shot and completely failed before becoming a star elsewhere.  Not sure if its because misdeveloped QBs are ruined and can't be fixed after 3+ years or if its because good QBs will find a way to have some degree of success regardless of how bad the circumstances are around them.

Though if there was ever a franchise that could misdevelop a QB and see him turn into a star elsewhere its the Bears.  

Exactly my thoughts.

[CubinNY]

21 minutes ago, UMFan83 said:

Can count the times that's happened in the last 30 years with a QB before on 1 hand probably

-Brees, who already had a pro bowl season in SD, but improved to a HOFer in NO

-Favre who never really got a real shot in Atlanta and was shipped out partly due to attitude issues

-Alex Smith was successful in SF and led them to the playoffs but found another gear under Andy Reid in KC

I think that's about it though I might be missing someone obvious. None of them had a 3 year shot and completely failed before becoming a star elsewhere.  Not sure if its because misdeveloped QBs are ruined and can't be fixed after 3+ years or if its because good QBs will find a way to have some degree of success regardless of how bad the circumstances are around them.

Though if there was ever a franchise that could misdevelop a QB and see him turn into a star elsewhere its the Bears.  

I think good QBs find a way. Look at Matthew Stafford and many others in the history of the NFL. It's the reason why Archie told Eli not to sign with the Chargers. 

But there is nothing in his game performance to suggest that Fields is a competent QB.

[Outshined_One]

I just don't want this front office and coaching staff getting another crack at a QB if they unilaterally decide to throw Fields under the bus this offseason.

Fields likely isn't the answer at QB for this team, even with a better coaching staff, but this team and coaching staff are just bad across the board, and Poles hasn't given anyone a compelling reason for why he should stay onboard if this keeps up.

[gflore34]

32 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

I think good QBs find a way. Look at Matthew Stafford and many others in the history of the NFL. It's the reason why Archie told Eli not to sign with the Chargers. 

But there is nothing in his game performance to suggest that Fields is a competent QB.

I to wanted Fields to succeed, fact is he's highly flawed, the Bears didn't create his flaws, they were just unable to maximize his strengths.  Thing I don't get about Fields is it appears he bites on literally everything, every fake by a DB works, I'm certain he sees it on film.  He's not stupid, read somewhere he aced all the pre-draft written tests but, the game is too fast for him and fools him all the time.

Edited September 25, 2023 by gflore34

[WrigleyField 22]

2 minutes ago, Outshined_One said:

I just don't want this front office and coaching staff getting another crack at a QB if they unilaterally decide to throw Fields under the bus this offseason.

Fields likely isn't the answer at QB for this team, even with a better coaching staff, but this team and coaching staff are just bad across the board, and Poles hasn't given anyone a compelling reason for why he should stay onboard if this keeps up.

They thew Fields under bus this season?  2022 for sure.  But they did actually more or less support him in 2023. Just too little too late.

 

It's pretty rare for GMs to not even see out their second coach and a QB investment of their own. And there's normally extenuating circumstances like a weird power struggle or power dynamic from the beginning. 

 

Unless the power struggle that goes down is with Warren, I don't see it happening.

[CubinNY]

9 minutes ago, WrigleyField 22 said:

They thew Fields under bus this season?  2022 for sure.  But they did actually more or less support him in 2023. Just too little too late.

 

It's pretty rare for GMs to not even see out their second coach and a QB investment of their own. And there's normally extenuating circumstances like a weird power struggle or power dynamic from the beginning. 

 

Unless the power struggle that goes down is with Warren, I don't see it happening.

Yeah, they are stuck with Poles for the next few years at least. 

[jumbo]

24 minutes ago, WrigleyField 22 said:

They thew Fields under bus this season?  2022 for sure.  But they did actually more or less support him in 2023. Just too little too late.

 

It's pretty rare for GMs to not even see out their second coach and a QB investment of their own. And there's normally extenuating circumstances like a weird power struggle or power dynamic from the beginning. 

 

Unless the power struggle that goes down is with Warren, I don't see it happening.

I think he meant if this coming off season the line is "Fields was the problem, let me get my own QB"

[jumbo]

2 hours ago, WrigleyField 22 said:

Yea, Rivera is best they "let get away". Some of their personnel guys from the mid-90s (when they operated without a GM) went on to have some okay success, but certainly not in a regretful way.

 

Doubt Poles ever gets another chance, unless, similar to Nagy, he heads back to KC and just waits to be next in line of succession.

 

Wild card thought is Cunningham who many fans have been banking on getting comp draft picks from and viewed as a hot candidate.  This season either tarnishes his reputation or Bears cend up cutting him loose (with FO overhaul) before he ever can convert into comp picks.

I was counting on two 3rds for Cunningham, which likely ain't happening, but it's still possible, I guess

[jersey cubs fan]

49 minutes ago, WrigleyField 22 said:

It's pretty rare for GMs to not even see out their second coach 

It’s pretty rare for a GM to do as bad a job as Poles has. He’s been much worse than Phil Emery who was the dud to end all duds. 

[Brian707]

3-14 his first season and it appears the team is actually regressing in his 2nd.  

[SpongeWorthy]

i put the odds of poles not being able to hire his next head coach/quarterback as pretty much 0% after the packers game but we're entering 3rd/4th standard deviation trash fire status so i'll put it at like 10% now