Post Draft Signings

[Irrelevant Dude]

7 minutes ago, CaliforniaRaisin said:

Good read - sounds like Wiggins wanted the most he could get

I mean, doesn't everyone?

[jersey cubs fan]

2 hours ago, Hrubes20 said:

Gross.  But whatever.  That ceiling is fun, regardless of how many obstacles there are to getting there.  

Why gross? It’s just money. And not yours. 

[Transmogrified Tiger]

19 minutes ago, jersey cubs fan said:

Why gross? It’s just money. And not yours. 

Don't think he cared about the signing bonus, he just wanted the mulligan on the pick next year.

[jersey cubs fan]

24 minutes ago, Transmogrified Tiger said:

Don't think he cared about the signing bonus, he just wanted the mulligan on the pick next year.

But the same people that made this pick would be making that pick. So if you don’t like it, you can’t have confidence that they’ll do better next time. It makes a lot more sense to be happy that they used all their money and signed everybody than to value a pick next year that would have to go to a guy that is worth less 

[Hrubes20]

7 hours ago, jersey cubs fan said:

Why gross? It’s just money. And not yours. 

Gross that they went overslot for a guy with literally zero college production and a current blown UCL. So many other avenues they could have gone with far less risk.

7 hours ago, Transmogrified Tiger said:

Don't think he cared about the signing bonus, he just wanted the mulligan on the pick next year.

I am mostly discouraged they went overslot for Wiggins, and obviously planned to do so. This handcuffed them from going overslot elsewhere. Not upset at all they went for ceiling, but there were plenty of other routes to go without the accumulation of risk that Wiggins has. But whatever. He’s a Cub now. I will cheer him on with the rest of them.

[CubinNY]

If Hawkins and Kantrovitz hit on Wiggins their careers are set. If they don't, it's a gamble that many people will never remember. I think we all want the Cubs to push toward excellence rather than safety, but this pick is a head-scratcher for me. He has one tool, he can throw the ball really hard but has almost no record of success. 

I assume someone within the organization has followed this kid for a lot longer than any of us and has presented enough information to them to make this seem worthwhile.

Edited July 26, 2023 by CubinNY

[Tim]

49 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

If Hawkins and Kantrovitz hit on Wiggins their careers are set. If they don't, it's a gamble that many people will never remember. I think we all want the Cubs to push toward excellence rather than safety, but this pick is a head-scratcher for me. He has one tool, he can throw the ball really hard but has almost no record of success. 

I assume someone within the organization has followed this kid for a lot longer than any of us and has presented enough information to them to make this seem worthwhile.

If it makes you feel any better, I think the Cubs strength and conditioning coach either worked with Wiggins at Arkansas or at least still knows people in the program very well.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

 

[CubinNY]

5 minutes ago, Tim said:

If it makes you feel any better, I think the Cubs strength and conditioning coach either worked with Wiggins at Arkansas or at least still knows people in the program very well.

lol, I appear to have been dead wrong about Horton, so... 

[Outshined_One]

4 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

lol, I appear to have been dead wrong about Horton, so... 

It's so weird to me that this team suuuuuuucked at producing in-house pitching prospects during the Theo reign, where most of their farm successes were either acquired via trade (Hendricks, Arrieta, Strop, CEJr) or were already in-system when Theo took over (Samardzija).

Now? I can pretty much talk myself into loving the chances of any pitcher they draft.

[CubinNY]

16 minutes ago, TomtheBombadil said:

Remember the good old days when yous guys used to yell at me for taking MiLB Stats and TJs so seriously? Why the switch after a global pandemic? How many 6'6" 230 guys with SEC starting experience, a 100 MPH fastball, and at least two offspeeds that can hit 90 are available beyond the first round of the draft? Are we worried he won't have the resources to recover? That he'll be the same he was at 19-20 in college after a career surgery?

I don't really see a ton of difference between this and the Ferris pick last year. Both are High Risk but in the grand scheme of things you're using a second round pick on tools and experience that have some case for the first in weaker drafts and definitely won't be both available and affordable later

 

 

Always fudging. He’s going to be 22 in October. Best case he sees the majors at 25. The exact age Mervis is. 

[Tryptamine]

If Wiggins or Sanders goes the way of Horton, I will completely cease second guessing any pitching draft picks.

[Tryptamine]

11 minutes ago, TomtheBombadil said:

I feel like you’re trying to lay some gotchya trap here. You were just defending Mervis being 25 a few days ago, what changed? And why take that change out on a shiny new who will be 25 in 2026 or 2027?!? 

I'm pretty sure he's making fun of the fact that you're so down on Mervis being 25 and yet in this scenario you're hyping this prospect who likely doesn't see the bigs until 25, if at all. 

[CubinNY]

5 minutes ago, TomtheBombadil said:

I feel like you’re trying to lay some gotchya trap here. You were just defending Mervis being 25 a few days ago, what changed? And why take that change out on a shiny new who will be 25 in 2026 or 2027?!? 

I’m not saying anything. Just making an observation 

[Named After Maddux]

1 hour ago, Tim said:

If it makes you feel any better, I think the Cubs strength and conditioning coach either worked with Wiggins at Arkansas or at least still knows people in the program very well.

Even more than that, the Cubs area scout who recommended the pick has been following Jaxon for years before during his high school career. He looked electric this fall. We’ll see how it all turns out but they took a swing on upside that was at least founded in a long history with the player.

[Hrubes20]

52 minutes ago, Outshined_One said:

It's so weird to me that this team suuuuuuucked at producing in-house pitching prospects during the Theo reign, where most of their farm successes were either acquired via trade (Hendricks, Arrieta, Strop, CEJr) or were already in-system when Theo took over (Samardzija).

Now? I can pretty much talk myself into loving the chances of any pitcher they draft.

I give them all the credit in the world for pouncing on Horton when the rest of the world (myself included) felt it was a reach.  But I'm going to need to see at least one of their pitchers actually make an impact at the big league level before they get this kind of treatment from me.  I believe Keegan Thompson is the most recently drafted pitcher to pitch valuable innings for the big league club.  He was taken in 2017.

[Hrubes20]

5 minutes ago, Named After Maddux said:

Even more than that, the Cubs area scout who recommended the pick has been following Jaxon for years before during his high school career. He looked electric this fall. We’ll see how it all turns out but they took a swing on upside that was at least founded in a long history with the player.

I think I mentioned it in the draft thread at the time, but Wiggins's fall ball performance is the only thing keeping me from bashing the pick even more.  Van Horn is one of the best head coaches in college baseball; for one of the best programs in the nation.  He obviously saw some tremendous improvements in Wiggins in fall ball to annoint him as the Friday Night Starter for a team with designs on a national championship every year.  He's not trotting out the 2022 version of Wiggins on Friday nights against the aces of other SEC staffs.

[craig]

5 hours ago, Named After Maddux said:

Even more than that, the Cubs area scout who recommended the pick has been following Jaxon for years before during his high school career. He looked electric this fall. We’ll see how it all turns out but they took a swing on upside that was at least founded in a long history with the player.

Exactly.  Ty Nichols is an experienced and well respected area scout in Arkansas and Oklahoma.  [Just as Billy Swope is over in Virginia.  (I believe Shaw, Carico, and Hope were all selections from Swope's scouting area, plus at least one other 3rd day pick.).]. Kantro mentioned that Nichols and Shaw are two of the scouts he trusts and relies on, and that he also uses as mentors for younger scouts.  Nichols has been tracking Wiggins in both HS and his 3 years at Arkansas.  Nichols has a good relationship with Arkansas's coaches, so I think he knows how to filter the feedback he gets from them.  As mentioned earlier, the Cubs hired Arkansas's strength-and-conditioning guy, who had worked with Wiggins in past.   So I think they've got lots of input on personality and brains and self-motivation and all that part of the profile.  Obviously Nichols has all of the technology for tracking metrics on Wiggins stuff.  

Horton had only flashed his plus new slider for a few weeks, but Nichols and Kantro believed it was real.  Only late did Wiggins start to flash his downer curveball, but Nichols and Kantro liked it.  Maybe wiggins fall-ball splash was kinda analogous to Horton's last month in college?  Nichols and Kantro see the makings of four good pitches, and saw progress in terms of his control.  

Each guy is unique.  Yes, Nichols and Kantro saw some improvement in control, but anti-awful improvement can still be way below average.  Who knows how future control will be?  And sure, Nichols can record some great pitch metrics; but if Wiggins can't control them, or throw good ones consistently, of what value are the best-pitch metrics?   

Kantro's a smart guy, he understands that stuff.  He went for the upside and took the risks associated.  That's life in the draft.  I hope it works out and Kantro looks genius.  

Edited July 26, 2023 by craig

[craig]

Cubs drafted Will Frisch last summer.  Wiggins had his TJ in February, Frisch in March.  It's end of July and we haven't seen Frisch yet this summer, 16-months out.  If Wiggins hypothetically follows an equivalent timeline, ≥16 months, we won't see much of Wiggins (if any) next season.  

Next summer could be fun with talented recent picks Gray, Ferris, and Horton all starting out in full season.  Maybe Frisch and Sanders too?  

[Named After Maddux]

46 minutes ago, craig said:

Exactly.  Ty Nichols is an experienced and well respected area scout in Arkansas and Oklahoma.  [Just as Billy Swope is over in Virginia.  (I believe Shaw, Carico, and Hope were all selections from Swope's scouting area, plus at least one other 3rd day pick.).]. Kantro mentioned that Nichols and Shaw are two of the scouts he trusts and relies on, and that he also uses as mentors for younger scouts.  Nichols has been tracking Wiggins in both HS and his 3 years at Arkansas. 

Horton had only flashed his plus new slider for a few weeks, but Nichols and Kantro believed it was real.  Only late did Wiggins start to flash his downer curveball, but Nichols and Kantro liked it.  Maybe wiggins fall-ball splash was kinda analogous to Horton's last month in college?  Nichols and Kantro see the makings of four good pitches, and saw progress in terms of his control.    

 

Big draft for Billy Swoope. He and NE Crosschecker, Matt Sherman, tag-teamed on Matt Shaw. Billy also had Carico and Hope like you mentioned. Then cleaned house with Trice, Armstrong, Brown, and Dean. Like you said it’s clear Billy and Ty are such respected names in the room.

”Electric” and “sharp” were the descriptors passed along about how Wiggins looked this fall. Obviously that could just be talk but hey I’m intrigued if they feel like the command took a step forward.

Oh well, regardless just glad they signed him. That was getting interesting there if Wiggins camp was going to really walk away from $1.4M.

[craig]

Maddux, wrong board, maybe.  But have you heard anything about Frisch, draft pick from last year about whom I've heard zero since?  Is this just their standard healthy patient process for a TJ guy?  Or has he perhaps had some kind of setback(s) in his rehab?  

I'm kinda wondering if a guy like that is doing fine, and is working hard in pitch lab in Mesa, and all is progressing desirably?  Or might show up in an Arizona league game any day?  Or if he's pacing to get going once fall instrux happens?  

[Named After Maddux]

2 hours ago, craig said:

Maddux, wrong board, maybe.  But have you heard anything about Frisch, draft pick from last year about whom I've heard zero since?  Is this just their standard healthy patient process for a TJ guy?  Or has he perhaps had some kind of setback(s) in his rehab?  

I'm kinda wondering if a guy like that is doing fine, and is working hard in pitch lab in Mesa, and all is progressing desirably?  Or might show up in an Arizona league game any day?  Or if he's pacing to get going once fall instrux happens?  

No I haven’t but that’s a great reminder. I’ll ask. Frisch looked great for Oregon State before he was injured but this has been a long recovery. I was so caught up in this draft that he kinda fell off my prospect radar. Thanks for the reminder.

[Jason Ross]

On 7/26/2023 at 1:09 PM, Named After Maddux said:

Even more than that, the Cubs area scout who recommended the pick has been following Jaxon for years before during his high school career. He looked electric this fall. We’ll see how it all turns out but they took a swing on upside that was at least founded in a long history with the player.

Same area scout who was on Horton.  Who was following Horton since HS...

 

Big Ty Nichols fan here!

Edited July 28, 2023 by 1908_Cubs

[Named After Maddux]

12 hours ago, 1908_Cubs said:

Same area scout who was on Horton.  Who was following Horton since HS...

 

Big Ty Nichols fan here!

“That Cade Horton is a bad man”

Yeah Ty knows his pitching. Hope this one looks as good as that. Could be fun!