Post Draft Signings

[CaliforniaRaisin]

The three who haven't signed yet are Wiggins, Hope and Armstrong. The signing deadline is July 25th.

[Hrubes20]

5 hours ago, 1908_Cubs said:

It is!  Thanks for the comment!  PSD randomly is shutting down come the 24th; I've posted back in here a few times, years ago, I believe. With the immanent death of PSD, expect a handful of the crowd to migrate over here (I may or may not have recommended it on it's way out...it's against site rules to post forums, but what are they going to do...ban me?)  

 

I guess this is my new home!  Glad to be here.

I remember 1908 from the PSD days as well!  I jumped ship over here when PSD was doing Yagyu dirty and never went back.  Welcome.  FWIW, I've found this place has way fewer insufferable posters than PSD did.

5 hours ago, Named After Maddux said:

Won't speculate too much, but worth checking out the picture of Flanagan that he posted. Unfortunately might explain lost leverage. 

 

 

Yeah, definitely looks like TJS.  Heal him up and get him in the lab.  That's a fantastic gamble for zero overslot dollars.  

13 minutes ago, CaliforniaRaisin said:

The three who haven't signed yet are Wiggins, Hope and Armstrong. The signing deadline is July 25th.

Sanders was not somebody I penciled in overslot money for.  It wasn't much, but certainly interesting.  But that is easily made up by none of Moore/Brown/Flanagan/Bowser taking any overslot.  I think Moore and Bowser probably should have gone back to school (unless they also have injuries I don't know about) but you won't hear me complain.

[Jason Ross]

13 minutes ago, Hrubes20 said:

I remember 1908 from the PSD days as well!  I jumped ship over here when PSD was doing Yagyu dirty and never went back.  Welcome.  FWIW, I've found this place has way fewer insufferable posters than PSD did.

Yeah, definitely looks like TJS.  Heal him up and get him in the lab.  That's a fantastic gamble for zero overslot dollars.  

Sanders was not somebody I penciled in overslot money for.  It wasn't much, but certainly interesting.  But that is easily made up by none of Moore/Brown/Flanagan/Bowser taking any overslot.  I think Moore and Bowser probably should have gone back to school (unless they also have injuries I don't know about) but you won't hear me complain.

Funnily enough, I keep in touch with Yags on discord!  I remember you, Hrubes, good to see old faces.

 

I actually expected Sanders to go over, glad it wasn't much.  He had pre-draft 1st round helium and is probably better than the average 4th rounder (most of these guys don't have the upside Sanders does).  That said, glad to have Sanders.  The stuff is #3 stuff but the consistency is bad.  Cubs lab has a lot of these types roaming around and have seen success.  I'd rather he be in the Cubs system than the others.

[craig]

2 hours ago, CubinNY said:

Brett at BN says Hope is not signed yet, but I thought his mom tweeted out that he was signing? 

Overslot guys can't sign until the Day1/2 guys officially sign and free the requisite overslot cash. 

1. For example, suppose you hypothetically sign Hope at $700, assuming Wiggins 5% overage?  Or for $850, presuming Wiggins signs $150 sub-slot?  
2. What would happen if Wiggins bombs his physical and doesn't sign?  Or  his agent breaks his word and reneges on the $150-subslot agreement?   *If* you'd already formalized Hope's deal, you'd not have the money.  

I count $551 being available right now, presuming the 5% Wiggins overage.  So, Wiggins slot, Hope could get $700K.  3rd-round money.  Maybe more, if Wiggins signs sub-slot.  

Apparently Billy Swope persuaded Kantro to like Hope an awful lot!!  I assumed overslot, but hadn't guessed that much.  Hope Hope can learn to hit, the most elusive of skills.  

[Scotti G]

Hope's schedule: 

https://www.insidenova.com/sports/updated-colonial-forge-graduate-zyhir-hope-will-sign-with-chicago-cubs/article_896a52a2-0f9f-11ee-b342-df7de5420293.html

 

"Hope is scheduled to take a physical and sign his contract July 22. He leaves July 19 for Chicago's spring training complex in Mesa (AZ). MLB teams have until July 25 at 5 p.m. to sign their draft picks."

 

*****

Armstrong's schedule:

https://www.13newsnow.com/article/sports/former-monarch-sam-armstrong-ready-for-pro-career-to-take-off/291-83f9ee09-f043-4894-b922-e196167962c9

7:05 PM EDT July 18, 2023

"NORFOLK, Va. — Sam Armstrong has waited a long time to be a professional baseball player. 

"It's been a dream of mine since I was a little kid to be getting that call, obviously I'm antsy to get down there," says Armstrong. "Down there" is Arizona where he'll begin his career in the Chicago Cubs organization after they selected him in the 13th round of the MLB draft. He is extra antsy, however, because he was supposed to already BE there. 

"Last night I was supposed to fly down to Arizona. We're on the runway getting ready to take off, there's something wrong with the plane and long story short the flight was cancelled." I guess when you've waited 20 years to become a pro, a few more days can't hurt."

[Outshined_One]

5 hours ago, Scotti G said:

Hope's schedule: 

https://www.insidenova.com/sports/updated-colonial-forge-graduate-zyhir-hope-will-sign-with-chicago-cubs/article_896a52a2-0f9f-11ee-b342-df7de5420293.html

 

"Hope is scheduled to take a physical and sign his contract July 22. He leaves July 19 for Chicago's spring training complex in Mesa (AZ). MLB teams have until July 25 at 5 p.m. to sign their draft picks."

 

*****

Armstrong's schedule:

https://www.13newsnow.com/article/sports/former-monarch-sam-armstrong-ready-for-pro-career-to-take-off/291-83f9ee09-f043-4894-b922-e196167962c9

7:05 PM EDT July 18, 2023

"NORFOLK, Va. — Sam Armstrong has waited a long time to be a professional baseball player. 

"It's been a dream of mine since I was a little kid to be getting that call, obviously I'm antsy to get down there," says Armstrong. "Down there" is Arizona where he'll begin his career in the Chicago Cubs organization after they selected him in the 13th round of the MLB draft. He is extra antsy, however, because he was supposed to already BE there. 

"Last night I was supposed to fly down to Arizona. We're on the runway getting ready to take off, there's something wrong with the plane and long story short the flight was cancelled." I guess when you've waited 20 years to become a pro, a few more days can't hurt."

Welcome!

[craig]

Modern draft is so different from olden days, before the cap, the slots, and the quick signing deadline.  Way different from the suspense, and from the long process.  Dunston, Maples... are we going to sign them?  Bobby Hill, Bobby Brownlee, Blasko, they haven't signed yet.  When does their college start classes?  Did they actually go to class on first day, and we've lost them?  Some of these guys taken between round 20-40 seem pretty interesting; will Hendry really have the budget to sign any of them?  

20 years ago I never imagined it would be so snappy.  20 picks, 20 guys signed within two weeks or less.  The only suspense whether a couple of 3rd-day guys will sign, and about the apportionment of bonus dollars.  So straightforward and uncomplicated these days!

The suspense about whether guys signed will be good remains.  

Edited July 20, 2023 by craig

[CaliforniaRaisin]

[CaliforniaRaisin]

That leaves Wiggins with $1,401,600 (his slot is $1,101,000). If for some reason they can't sign Wiggins, they could use the $245,550 in savings from the pool of their other top 10 round signings + $150k to spend up to $395,550 on any undrafted free agent.

Signing deadline is July 25th.

[Hrubes20]

16 minutes ago, CaliforniaRaisin said:

That leaves Wiggins with $1,401,600 (his slot is $1,101,000). If for some reason they can't sign Wiggins, they could use the $245,550 in savings from the pool of their other top 10 round signings + $150k to spend up to $395,550 on any undrafted free agent.

Signing deadline is July 25th.

The interwebz is pretty unclear about this, but does anyone know if it still is true that compensation picks are protected for a year if they are in the top 3 rounds, as this pick would be?

[Named After Maddux]

Just now, Hrubes20 said:

The interwebz is pretty unclear about this, but does anyone know if it still is true that compensation picks are protected for a year if they are in the top 3 rounds, as this pick would be?

They are from my understanding. It would be pick 69 next season, which will make for a lot of "nice" interjections

[Cubs420psd]

5 hours ago, craig said:

Modern draft is so different from olden days, before the cap, the slots, and the quick signing deadline.  Way different from the suspense, and from the long process.  Dunston, Maples... are we going to sign them?  Bobby Hill, Bobby Brownlee, Blasko, they haven't signed yet.  When does their college start classes?  Did they actually go to class on first day, and we've lost them?  Some of these guys taken between round 20-40 seem pretty interesting; will Hendry really have the budget to sign any of them?  

20 years ago I never imagined it would be so snappy.  20 picks, 20 guys signed within two weeks or less.  The only suspense whether a couple of 3rd-day guys will sign, and about the apportionment of bonus dollars.  So straightforward and uncomplicated these days!

The suspense about whether guys signed will be good remains.  

What sucks is that right when the Cubs decided to copy the Red Sox model (spend a horsefeathers ton in the draft) MLB completely changes the rule. The Javy draft was the only one they were able to deploy that method.

 

 

[craig]

3 hours ago, CaliforniaRaisin said:

That leaves Wiggins with $1,401,600 (his slot is $1,101,000). ...

On Day1 when we picked Wiggins, did any of us anticipate he'd be significantly superslotted? 

We'll see what he ends up actually signing for.  But I think Kantro usually uses his money very carefully and uses all of it.  So if he's saved $300 for overslot, and Wiggins is the only guy left to sign, seems Wiggins is going to get a nice overslot.  

Day 1:  Media guys rank as an 85-150 3rd/4th-round guy; most report a pretty straight fastball; all agree he's a wildman with no control of fastball much less anything else.  TJ surgery.  Who guessed he'd get superslot?

Kind of a cool story.  In the unlikely event that he develops into a high-end rotation guy with decent-enough control, the Cubs scouts and PD guys will deserve a lot of praise.  

[Jason Ross]

13 hours ago, craig said:

On Day1 when we picked Wiggins, did any of us anticipate he'd be significantly superslotted? 

We'll see what he ends up actually signing for.  But I think Kantro usually uses his money very carefully and uses all of it.  So if he's saved $300 for overslot, and Wiggins is the only guy left to sign, seems Wiggins is going to get a nice overslot.  

Day 1:  Media guys rank as an 85-150 3rd/4th-round guy; most report a pretty straight fastball; all agree he's a wildman with no control of fastball much less anything else.  TJ surgery.  Who guessed he'd get superslot?

Kind of a cool story.  In the unlikely event that he develops into a high-end rotation guy with decent-enough control, the Cubs scouts and PD guys will deserve a lot of praise.  

I'd assume he gets the remainder.  I'm a little surprised he's getting over-slotted (I initially believed he was an under-slot candidate on draft night), but my guess is that there was more interest in Wiggins than many in the industry believed.  He had 1st round hype pre-season, was a  former pre-season all-America with BA, and you just can't teach 100mph.  He's a bit risky, maybe riskier than many, but in a draft that was super thin at the top of college arms, there may have been a handful of teams looking at Wiggins as a fun guy to grab around this range and to make sure he didn't return to college forcing the Cubs to go overslot.  

[JBears79]

2 hours ago, 1908_Cubs said:

I'd assume he gets the remainder.  I'm a little surprised he's getting over-slotted (I initially believed he was an under-slot candidate on draft night), but my guess is that there was more interest in Wiggins than many in the industry believed.  He had 1st round hype pre-season, was a  former pre-season all-America with BA, and you just can't teach 100mph.  He's a bit risky, maybe riskier than many, but in a draft that was super thin at the top of college arms, there may have been a handful of teams looking at Wiggins as a fun guy to grab around this range and to make sure he didn't return to college forcing the Cubs to go overslot.  

Yeah. I'm surprised by him getting overslot. His stuff is great but I was unimpressed reading about him and watching some of his scouting videos. Dude has no clue where the ball is going to go when it leaves his hand. Hopefully the pitch lab can get that right. To my amateur's eye, it looks like his release point is all over the place and lacks zero consistency. Right now, he screams reliever to me but obviously you keep him as a starter as long as possible. 

[Outshined_One]

The only other thing I can think of is Wiggins' post-draft physical might not have gone as well as expected, hence the hold up in getting him signed.  I get that most people consider TJS recovery to be automatic, but if there are concerns about a longer recovery than expected recovery period or the possibility of follow-up procedures, I could see the Cubs make a push to sign him below slot.

[craig]

3 hours ago, 1908_Cubs said:

... there may have been a handful of teams looking at Wiggins as a fun guy to grab around this range and to make sure he didn't return to college forcing the Cubs to go overslot.  

Yeah, we'll never know.  Even if Kantro was bidding against himself, we'll never know.  

His take and scouting comments were way more effusive than the media writeups.  Top-of-rotation reference, reference to both down curve as well as slider, impressive fastball metrics, perceived improvement of his control.    Maybe most draft bosses saw him like Keith Law and the media guys, but perhaps several others also saw and liked what Kantro liked?  

[Jason Ross]

Just now, craig said:

Yeah, we'll never know.  Even if Kantro was bidding against himself, we'll never know.  

His take and scouting comments were way more effusive than the media writeups.  Top-of-rotation reference, reference to both down curve as well as slider, impressive fastball metrics, perceived improvement of his control.    Maybe most draft bosses saw him like Keith Law and the media guys, but perhaps several others also saw and liked what Kantro liked?  

We're at a stage with the Cubs pitching development that they can basically take whomever they want and I'll shrug my shoulders and accept that the Cubs can take who they want.  They've proven pretty reliable here over the last ~3 seasons in identifying useful arms, tweaking and working with guys, and building up the pipeline both in draft and in trade.  If the Cubs like Jaxon Wiggins...I like Jaxon Wiggins.  

[Hrubes20]

41 minutes ago, Outshined_One said:

The only other thing I can think of is Wiggins' post-draft physical might not have gone as well as expected, hence the hold up in getting him signed.  I get that most people consider TJS recovery to be automatic, but if there are concerns about a longer recovery than expected recovery period or the possibility of follow-up procedures, I could see the Cubs make a push to sign him below slot.

I had this thought as well.  If the Cubs' medical staff uncovered something additional in the physical, they may not even sign him at all and pick again at 69 next year.  They have to offer 75% of slot to get the pick next year, though.  Wiggins may decide that the risk is too much and just accept it.  Unfortunately there really isn't anywhere to spend the overslot money anymore, unless they could convince an undrafted prep kid into signing.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Raisin pointed out that Wiggins went to the combine, so while I don't know the ins and outs of what they do there it'd be a little weird if he 1) refused the medical testing that's associated with it and the Cubs still picked him or 2) the post-draft physical unearthed something significant the combine testing missed.

[Hrubes20]

4 minutes ago, Transmogrified Tiger said:

Raisin pointed out that Wiggins went to the combine, so while I don't know the ins and outs of what they do there it'd be a little weird if he 1) refused the medical testing that's associated with it and the Cubs still picked him or 2) the post-draft physical unearthed something significant the combine testing missed.

The first one would absolutely shock me.  As Raisin pointed out, he couldn't do any workouts for teams so it would be weird if he went only to do interviews.  But the second one seems very reasonable.  Medicals get misconstrued all the time, especially when they are based on tests performed by someone else.  Cubs could have gotten a different angle on some imaging or something that they didn't previously have.  Certainly not saying it's likely or probable, but it is at the very least possible.  

[Hrubes20]

Under 24 hours now for Wiggins to sign. 

[CaliforniaRaisin]

19/20 officially official

[Tryptamine]

As long as it doesn't cost the Cubs any other singings, I'm pretty neutral about whether or not Wiggins agrees to a deal in the next 5.5 hours. The upside is intriguing but there's so many things that are scary. His weaknesses are not things the Cubs are typically good at fixing. 

[Tim]

15 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

As long as it doesn't cost the Cubs any other singings, I'm pretty neutral about whether or not Wiggins agrees to a deal in the next 5.5 hours. The upside is intriguing but there's so many things that are scary. His weaknesses are not things the Cubs are typically good at fixing. 

Why be neutral, though? All 19 other guys are signed already, so this has no impact on anyone else. Let's get that super high-risk, high-upside arm in the system.