New CBA negotiations

[chopsx9]

Move the system to an entirely revenue based system. Teams give x% of revenue to the Player's association. Players association determines what each player gets paid. Players earning are no longer based/hindered by the earning of a particular team but on the league as a whole. Players never get traded again because they become too expensive for a team. Front offices can slash head count of administrative staff. Play Ball.

[CubinNY]

Move the system to an entirely revenue based system. Teams give x% of revenue to the Player's association. Players association determines what each player gets paid. Players earning are no longer based/hindered by the earning of a particular team but on the league as a whole. Players never get traded again because they become too expensive for a team. Front offices can slash head count of administrative staff. Play Ball.

 

I like it, but the first mountain to climb cannot be scaled. The owners will never ever open the books to independent auditors to determine what percentage of revenue would go to the players.

[BigSlick]

I can't put into words how much I hate the idea of expanding playoffs from 10 to 14 teams

 

Don't make the regular season as meaningless as the NBA regular season please

[CubinNY]

I can't put into words how much I hate the idea of expanding playoffs from 10 to 14 teams

 

Don't make the regular season as meaningless as the NBA regular season please

It also gives the Ricketts and the rest of them reasons to not spend money to make a team great.

[Bertz]

I can't put into words how much I hate the idea of expanding playoffs from 10 to 14 teams

 

Don't make the regular season as meaningless as the NBA regular season please

 

Yeah, I love the current setup. I literally take the week of the Division series off every year. Unfortunately, I think we're 100% getting expanded playoffs. It's pretty clearly the Players' biggest negotiating chip.

 

Fortunately, it sounds like the MLBPA knows it's a Trojan horse for owners to be less competitive. So we'll see some incentives to maintain competitive balance.

 

Like I'm expecting something like this:

 

- 3 division winners + 3 wildcards in each league

- Top 2 division winners get byes in the WC round

- 3rd division winner plays against WC#3 in WC round, but gets all three games at home

- WCs 1 & 2 play a 3 game set, but they DO have to travel without an off day

 

The owners get up to 10 additional playoff games, but I don't think this actually hurts competitive balance. In fact I think this is a win pretty much up and down the win curve. As a viewer I hate hate hate losing the 1 game wildcard round, but something like this might be much better for the game macroeconomically

[Derwood]

It’s tough to have CBA negotiations when the two sides simply don’t meet

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I can't put into words how much I hate the idea of expanding playoffs from 10 to 14 teams

 

Don't make the regular season as meaningless as the NBA regular season please

 

Yeah, I love the current setup. I literally take the week of the Division series off every year. Unfortunately, I think we're 100% getting expanded playoffs. It's pretty clearly the Players' biggest negotiating chip.

 

Fortunately, it sounds like the MLBPA knows it's a Trojan horse for owners to be less competitive. So we'll see some incentives to maintain competitive balance.

 

Like I'm expecting something like this:

 

- 3 division winners + 3 wildcards in each league

- Top 2 division winners get byes in the WC round

- 3rd division winner plays against WC#3 in WC round, but gets all three games at home

- WCs 1 & 2 play a 3 game set, but they DO have to travel without an off day

 

The owners get up to 10 additional playoff games, but I don't think this actually hurts competitive balance. In fact I think this is a win pretty much up and down the win curve. As a viewer I hate hate hate losing the 1 game wildcard round, but something like this might be much better for the game macroeconomically

 

I don't expect it because the players likely aren't huge fans, but if we are going down this path I really want games 1 and 2 to be double-headers. It adds the potential for single day finality and keeps the TV event nature of the round, plus it helps reward regular season performance in a couple ways. Not only the hosting of the double header(and Game 3 too for all I care) for higher seeded teams, but the nature of those games will reward deeper rosters/stronger SP performance, and help with the increasing divide between regular season and playoff play styles.

[Bertz]

I don't expect it because the players likely aren't huge fans, but if we are going down this path I really want games 1 and 2 to be double-headers. It adds the potential for single day finality and keeps the TV event nature of the round, plus it helps reward regular season performance in a couple ways. Not only the hosting of the double header(and Game 3 too for all I care) for higher seeded teams, but the nature of those games will reward deeper rosters/stronger SP performance, and help with the increasing divide between regular season and playoff play styles.

 

Yeah I really wonder about how much of a non starter playoff doubleheaders are. I also think a lot about starting a series with one team up 1-0. The KBO does this and I think it's a really creative way to increase the importance of playoff seeding.

[stitchface]

I can't put into words how much I hate the idea of expanding playoffs from 10 to 14 teams

 

Don't make the regular season as meaningless as the NBA regular season please

 

I saw the NBA is considering in-season tournaments styled after European soccer - precisely to make the long regular season more interesting. Don't know if that applies to baseball in some format but I think the regular season is too long and agree making it less meaningful but really dull things out. At least in the NBA, the better teams generally win in the playoffs.

[Cubswin11]

I can't put into words how much I hate the idea of expanding playoffs from 10 to 14 teams

 

Don't make the regular season as meaningless as the NBA regular season please

 

I saw the NBA is considering in-season tournaments styled after European soccer - precisely to make the long regular season more interesting. Don't know if that applies to baseball in some format but I think the regular season is too long and agree making it less meaningful but really dull things out. At least in the NBA, the better teams generally win in the playoffs.

A mid season tournament would hold no meaning to me in the NBA or MLB.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Multiple competitions is a great way to make more games matter, but they cant just be a random sideshow, they have to connect together, and the best way to do that is to connect them over multiple seasons. Here’s a hypothetical I put some thought into, but don’t get hung up on the specific numbers. Imagine a 32 team MLB with 4 divisions of 8. The regular season is ~100 games only against your division(limiting travel, helping weeknight attendance, deepening rivalries), where the top 4 in each division qualify for next year’s ‘senior circuit’ and the bottom 4 qualify for the ‘junior circuit’(call them what you want). Those 2 ‘tournaments’ are ~50 games (everyone plays one series against everyone) with a 4-8 team playoff at the end. The senior circuit playoff is the world series, and the junior circuit playoff is a play in to next year’s senior circuit(and draft position/rev sharing if you want). I’d prefer that competition be intertwined through the regular season too, but you could do it all at the end if you prefer. The upshot is that there’s way fewer meaningless games, even bad teams will have only a week or so in each competition where they’re truly out of it, and a team could be bad in one competition and good in another. It also disincentivizes tanking in multiple ways. There’s probably unintended consequences and it’ll almost certainly never happen, but it’s the best way I can think of to balance the tension baseball has where its biggest asset as an entertainment property is volume of games, but way too many of them are meaningless(even in a world without tanking).

[SouthSideRyan]

Why do people frequently try to propose changing the structure of American sports to match the format of less popular(in the US) sports

[stitchface]

Why do people frequently try to propose changing the structure of American sports to match the format of less popular(in the US) sports

 

to make the US sports better - obviously.

[stitchface]

I can't put into words how much I hate the idea of expanding playoffs from 10 to 14 teams

 

Don't make the regular season as meaningless as the NBA regular season please

 

I saw the NBA is considering in-season tournaments styled after European soccer - precisely to make the long regular season more interesting. Don't know if that applies to baseball in some format but I think the regular season is too long and agree making it less meaningful but really dull things out. At least in the NBA, the better teams generally win in the playoffs.

A mid season tournament would hold no meaning to me in the NBA or MLB.

 

but it would for most people and it would grow in stature over time.

[CubinNY]

 

I saw the NBA is considering in-season tournaments styled after European soccer - precisely to make the long regular season more interesting. Don't know if that applies to baseball in some format but I think the regular season is too long and agree making it less meaningful but really dull things out. At least in the NBA, the better teams generally win in the playoffs.

A mid season tournament would hold no meaning to me in the NBA or MLB.

 

but it would for most people and it would grow in stature over time.

Or it wouldn't. Baseball is not soccer or the NFL or NHL. It's like the world baseball classic, nobody gives a horsefeathers.

 

Baseball is baseball. I don't mind organic changes brought on by new technology or information (i.e., shifting, spray charts, spin rates, analytics, etc.), but systemic changes (runner or second n extra innings, 7 inning double headers, mid-season tournaments, TT's minor-major leagues, etc.) I don't like so much.

[CubColtPacer]

Why do people frequently try to propose changing the structure of American sports to match the format of less popular(in the US) sports

 

If baseball was all played in a different country and only had widespread television access to the US market in the last 20 years, it wouldn't be very popular either.

[Bertz]

 

I'd still be shocked if the season gets pushed back, but Spring Training sounds like it will definitely get crunched

[jersey cubs fan]

I'd still be shocked if the season gets pushed back, but Spring Training sounds like it will definitely get crunched

I would not be shocked at all if the season gets pushed back. There is a lock out, the fact that it has gotten this far means that is a very real possibility.

[Derwood]

There’s no way they start in time

[Irrelevant Dude]

From Passan's tweet:

Then and now, the players and league don't negotiate so much as talk past each other.

Not to turn this thread political, but that problem extends beyond MLB. People in power seemingly prefer kicking the can down the road rather than finding compromises that a majority of people can live with.

[Cubswin11]

I figured they wouldn’t really make any real progress through the Holiday’s/New Year. Let’s see what happens in the coming weeks now that we’re past that and they get a sense of a deadline with ST/season approaching. I still would lean they hammer something out and don’t miss any part of the season, maybe they lose a week or two of ST.

[CubinNY]

I figured they wouldn’t really make any real progress through the Holiday’s/New Year. Let’s see what happens in the coming weeks now that we’re past that and they get a sense of a deadline with ST/season approaching. I still would lean they hammer something out and don’t miss any part of the season, maybe they lose a week or two of ST.

They will not start the season on time. This isn't something that can be hammered out in a week due to both sides being so far apart unless one side capitulates.

[pitchcs]

Multiple competitions is a great way to make more games matter, but they cant just be a random sideshow, they have to connect together, and the best way to do that is to connect them over multiple seasons. Here’s a hypothetical I put some thought into, but don’t get hung up on the specific numbers. Imagine a 32 team MLB with 4 divisions of 8. The regular season is ~100 games only against your division(limiting travel, helping weeknight attendance, deepening rivalries), where the top 4 in each division qualify for next year’s ‘senior circuit’ and the bottom 4 qualify for the ‘junior circuit’(call them what you want). Those 2 ‘tournaments’ are ~50 games (everyone plays one series against everyone) with a 4-8 team playoff at the end. The senior circuit playoff is the world series, and the junior circuit playoff is a play in to next year’s senior circuit(and draft position/rev sharing if you want). I’d prefer that competition be intertwined through the regular season too, but you could do it all at the end if you prefer. The upshot is that there’s way fewer meaningless games, even bad teams will have only a week or so in each competition where they’re truly out of it, and a team could be bad in one competition and good in another. It also disincentivizes tanking in multiple ways. There’s probably unintended consequences and it’ll almost certainly never happen, but it’s the best way I can think of to balance the tension baseball has where its biggest asset as an entertainment property is volume of games, but way too many of them are meaningless(even in a world without tanking).

 

I think this would definitely hurt attendance for Junior Circuit teams.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Multiple competitions is a great way to make more games matter, but they cant just be a random sideshow, they have to connect together, and the best way to do that is to connect them over multiple seasons. Here’s a hypothetical I put some thought into, but don’t get hung up on the specific numbers. Imagine a 32 team MLB with 4 divisions of 8. The regular season is ~100 games only against your division(limiting travel, helping weeknight attendance, deepening rivalries), where the top 4 in each division qualify for next year’s ‘senior circuit’ and the bottom 4 qualify for the ‘junior circuit’(call them what you want). Those 2 ‘tournaments’ are ~50 games (everyone plays one series against everyone) with a 4-8 team playoff at the end. The senior circuit playoff is the world series, and the junior circuit playoff is a play in to next year’s senior circuit(and draft position/rev sharing if you want). I’d prefer that competition be intertwined through the regular season too, but you could do it all at the end if you prefer. The upshot is that there’s way fewer meaningless games, even bad teams will have only a week or so in each competition where they’re truly out of it, and a team could be bad in one competition and good in another. It also disincentivizes tanking in multiple ways. There’s probably unintended consequences and it’ll almost certainly never happen, but it’s the best way I can think of to balance the tension baseball has where its biggest asset as an entertainment property is volume of games, but way too many of them are meaningless(even in a world without tanking).

 

I think this would definitely hurt attendance for Junior Circuit teams.

 

Possibly! But our baseline is attendance for the bottom half of the league post-trade deadline, not a high bar. Almost all of those teams were 8+ games out of playoff position at the start of August, in this example they are starting with a clean slate that gives them a second chance at advancing and in a pool that doesn't include the best teams to improve their odds.

[jersey cubs fan]

People don't go to a baseball game because it might lead their team to the world series, they go to a baseball game to see a baseball game. Adding new layers of "meaning" to them isn't going to do a damn thing.