Cubs add Chapman for Torres, et al. imb wishes we paid more

[Bigloubaby]

So is he going to be here tonight to save this game for Arrieta?

[David]

i see the report that the yankees were trying to extend chapman but i'm still not getting why they'd bother investing big money there when they already have an absurd bullpen with miller and betances.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

 

Makes sense being a Boras client and all. Still not a huge fan of making this deal w/o one

 

Yeah. With like a billion dollars coming off the books if he was going to sign for 4/60 he'd be a Yankee. He probably still will be but just for more years and perhaps AAV.

 

You said this last night too...wondering why you're so sure he'd rather be a Yankee than a Cub at equal salaries.

 

Because he seems happy and has at least been quoted as saying he would be down with returning next season even if he got traded. No reason not to stay with what you know if you're happy and the money is the same.

[Post Count Padder]

I'm still just having a hard time with this one, between the haul for Chapman, the fact that no extension is in place and the fact that he's a POS. I'm really interested in this press conference/statements from the front office.

It's a bit of a haul, but it seems like Torres is really the only one with any kind of chance to be a difference-maker at this point, and even that is far from a definite. It's an overpay, but I think an acceptable one. (Keeping in mind that I'm not a student of the prospects we have like most of this board is.)

I know. I'm just still having this internal struggle over it. We're also selling low on Warren and McKinney. Don't care too much about Crawford. And I was kinda assuming Torres would be dealt at some point. I guess there have been worse overpays (see: Phillies' haul for Giles).

[jersey cubs fan]

 

Yeah. With like a billion dollars coming off the books if he was going to sign for 4/60 he'd be a Yankee. He probably still will be but just for more years and perhaps AAV.

 

You said this last night too...wondering why you're so sure he'd rather be a Yankee than a Cub at equal salaries.

 

Because he seems happy and has at least been quoted as saying he would be down with returning next season even if he got traded. No reason not to stay with what you know if you're happy and the money is the same.

Maybe he just seems happy because his agent told him it would be dumb to act as though you do not enjoy pitching for the team with the most money.

[Elrhino]

 

Yeah, I'd probably like that fictional trade more than the actual one.

I can't say that I would rather have McKinney than Cease. Sure McKinney will be higher on the prospect lists and Cease is a complete wild card, but he is also a rarity in the Cubs system.

 

mckinney is literal garbage so of course id rather have cease than him but jesus christ the wailing and gnashing of teeth over these children in LOW A BALL is really amazing.

 

Especially given that the Montgomery for Vogelbach trade was universally loved. Gleybar and Vogelbach were blocked and brought more value as trade chips than players. A guy who's destroying AAA brings back several years of cost control for an extremely shakey career middle relief loogy. A Low A Ball prospect + garbage brings back a rental of a future Hall of Famer generational talent. I don't see the huge discrepency in cost to baseball value to a World Series Contending team in the two trades to warrant such polar extremes of reaction.

[David]

I can't say that I would rather have McKinney than Cease. Sure McKinney will be higher on the prospect lists and Cease is a complete wild card, but he is also a rarity in the Cubs system.

 

mckinney is literal garbage so of course id rather have cease than him but jesus christ the wailing and gnashing of teeth over these children in LOW A BALL is really amazing.

 

Especially given that the Montgomery for Vogelbach trade was universally loved. Gleybar and Vogelbach were blocked and brought more value as trade chips than players. A guy who's destroying AAA brings back several years of cost control for an extremely shakey career middle relief loogy. A Low A Ball prospect + garbage brings back a rental of a future Hall of Famer generational talent. I don't see the huge discrepency in cost to baseball value to a World Series Contending team in the two trades to warrant such polar extremes of reaction.

 

Vogelbach is still held in much lower regard because he has no positional value, while Torres (as a SS, at least) is near the top of the defensive spectrum. Then there's age. Then there's the fact that Montgomery has a lot of team control left.

[Sammy Sofa]

 

Yeah, I'd probably like that fictional trade more than the actual one.

I can't say that I would rather have McKinney than Cease. Sure McKinney will be higher on the prospect lists and Cease is a complete wild card, but he is also a rarity in the Cubs system.

 

mckinney is literal garbage so of course id rather have cease than him but jesus christ the wailing and gnashing of teeth over these children in LOW A BALL is really amazing.

 

Prospect-hoarding gone mad. You knew it was bound to happen.

[Irrelevant Dude]

So, Travis Wood goes from 7th/8th inning high leverage lefty reliever to long relief guy? I'm alright with that.

[Cubswin11]

So, Travis Wood goes from 7th/8th inning high leverage lefty reliever to long relief guy? I'm alright with that.

Yeah the trickle down effect is Travis Wood, Trevor Cahill and Justin Grimm are now essentially mop up guys. Which is pretty incredible because in the last 16 months or so all 3 have been incredibly effective at various points.

[Irrelevant Dude]

So, Travis Wood goes from 7th/8th inning high leverage lefty reliever to long relief guy? I'm alright with that.

Yeah the trickle down effect is Travis Wood, Trevor Cahill and Justin Grimm are now essentially mop up guys. Which is pretty incredible because in the last 16 months or so all 3 have been incredibly effective at various points.

That and Matusz, who just a week ago we were looking at as a potential key relief arm, now transitions to starting rotation insurance.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Theo wins "horsefeathers the closer" forever.

[Thusly Boned]

I can't say that I would rather have McKinney than Cease. Sure McKinney will be higher on the prospect lists and Cease is a complete wild card, but he is also a rarity in the Cubs system.

 

mckinney is literal garbage so of course id rather have cease than him but jesus christ the wailing and gnashing of teeth over these children in LOW A BALL is really amazing.

 

Prospect-hoarding gone mad. You knew it was bound to happen.

 

To be fair, I don't think people wanted to hold on to Torres so much as they would like to have seen him used as part of a deal for a player with more years of control.

[Derwood]

So I check this thread and there are ten new pages of posts with exactly zero new information. Someone text me when something happens (no don't)

 

literally two posts up

 

#ThatsOurDerwood

 

That post wasn't there when I started mine :-"

[Liam Neeson]

LOL at the title

[imb]

i really wish we would have traded for a lesser reliever so we could keep billy mckinney and ramon cordoba or whoever. Adam Warren's 6 ERA is gonna be missed, i really wish we could have gotten some team control on a guy like Abad instead of chapman

[Transmogrified Tiger]

i really wish we would have traded for a lesser reliever so we could keep billy mckinney and ramon cordoba or whoever. Adam Warren's 6 ERA is gonna be missed, i really wish we could have gotten some team control on a guy like Abad instead of chapman

 

You're starting to sound as silly as the people lamenting McKinney's inclusion.

[UMFan83]

So, Travis Wood goes from 7th/8th inning high leverage lefty reliever to long relief guy? I'm alright with that.

Yeah the trickle down effect is Travis Wood, Trevor Cahill and Justin Grimm are now essentially mop up guys. Which is pretty incredible because in the last 16 months or so all 3 have been incredibly effective at various points.

 

Cahill (or Grimm) might not even have a spot in the pen right now with no injuries.

 

Chapman, Rondon, Strop, Edwards, Wood, Nathan, Montgomery and then either Cahill or Grimm. And that's with a 13 man pitching staff, otherwise they both don't have a spot (if Nathan fails that changes things a little).

Edited July 25, 2016 by UMFan83

[imb]

i really wish we would have traded for a lesser reliever so we could keep billy mckinney and ramon cordoba or whoever. Adam Warren's 6 ERA is gonna be missed, i really wish we could have gotten some team control on a guy like Abad instead of chapman

 

You're starting to sound as silly as the people lamenting McKinney's inclusion.

 

umm no

[Cubswin11]

The only thing I wish we did was just get him cheaper from the Reds in the offseason instead of now, but I am fine with what we gave up here. Plus who knows if the Reds would have traded him within the division and there was still uncertainty surrounding what his punishment would be and what had happened in his DV incident.

[Flames24Rulz]

Just give Chapman whatever he wants in the offseason and this is an outstanding move.

[Flames24Rulz]

The only thing I wish we did was just get him cheaper from the Reds in the offseason instead of now, but I am fine with what we gave up here. Plus who knows if the Reds would have traded him within the division and there was still uncertainty surrounding what his punishment would be and what had happened in his DV incident.

 

The Reds certainly would've demanded more from the Cubs as opposed to what they got from the Yankees, no?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

i really wish we would have traded for a lesser reliever so we could keep billy mckinney and ramon cordoba or whoever. Adam Warren's 6 ERA is gonna be missed, i really wish we could have gotten some team control on a guy like Abad instead of chapman

 

You're starting to sound as silly as the people lamenting McKinney's inclusion.

 

umm no

 

Pretty close. It's not unreasonable to be uneasy about paying a high price for a half season of an elite reliever. It can and has been taken too far into prospect clutching, but so is taking the 'Chapman is an elite reliever that makes us better' argument to 'Torres, Cease, McKinney, who cares they're in A-ball'.

[Elrhino]

 

mckinney is literal garbage so of course id rather have cease than him but jesus christ the wailing and gnashing of teeth over these children in LOW A BALL is really amazing.

 

Especially given that the Montgomery for Vogelbach trade was universally loved. Gleybar and Vogelbach were blocked and brought more value as trade chips than players. A guy who's destroying AAA brings back several years of cost control for an extremely shakey career middle relief loogy. A Low A Ball prospect + garbage brings back a rental of a future Hall of Famer generational talent. I don't see the huge discrepency in cost to baseball value to a World Series Contending team in the two trades to warrant such polar extremes of reaction.

 

Vogelbach is still held in much lower regard because he has no positional value, while Torres (as a SS, at least) is near the top of the defensive spectrum. Then there's age. Then there's the fact that Montgomery has a lot of team control left.

 

I know what the differences are in the prospects and players, saying the differences in the trade pacakages haul they netted us doesn't warrant such drastic extreme polar reactions. Torress has to bring elite defensive SS glove because he'll probably never make it as an MLB hitter at any other position. He brought us a Hall of Famer in return. While Vogelbach was destroying AAA, traded to a AL team who can put him at DH, and brought us back a player who just might not be good at baseball.

 

I don't really care at all about Warren, McKinney, or Crawford. You can throw 4 other pieces of other garbage in the trade and make it an "8-1" trade, it doesnt' change my opinion about the price of the trade at all.

Edited July 25, 2016 by Elrhino

[UMFan83]

Feel bad for calling this guy quasi legit earlier. Holy backtracking and trying to save face

 

https://twitter.com/wildermind_aeh/status/757622915319857153