General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

[Sammy Sofa]

Personally, I would not be surprised to see a labor stoppage at some point between now and then. The who thing is hugely, hugely in favor of the teams/owners, and the players have little leverage outside of going on strike.

[Tim]

We'll just have to disagree, Tim. The crux of this is the MLBPA realizing how badly veteran players are relatively screwed now. Granted, a good part of them is them screwing over younger players with their previous negotiations, but that's still coming home to roost and isn't going away. You're going to have enough players griping who aren't the lucky few older players still getting big deals (or signed at all).

When are they due for a new contract? I think you overestimate single offseason impacts.

 

The current agreement goes through 2021. And I think you're underestimating the players realizing how much they've given up over the last decade+, and the corner they've boxed themselves into. They're not going to just shrug their shoulders and figure that's that because Bryce Harper made more money than god.

By 2021, all of this season's offseason will be forgotten by most. I'll bet that you'll see teams spend in advance of the next negotiation.

[Sammy Sofa]

When are they due for a new contract? I think you overestimate single offseason impacts.

 

The current agreement goes through 2021. And I think you're underestimating the players realizing how much they've given up over the last decade+, and the corner they've boxed themselves into. They're not going to just shrug their shoulders and figure that's that because Bryce Harper made more money than god.

By 2021, all of this season's offseason will be forgotten by most. I'll bet that you'll see teams spend in advance of the next negotiation.

 

A stoppage could easily occur before 2021; most analysis right now has been pointing out how the relationship between the union and owners is horrendous, and has been for a while (this offeseason is really more of capper), so the general consensus is that there are going to have to be some pretty significant changes between now and 2021. Simply spending more for a couple offseasons isn't going to get the union to roll over.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Sammy Sofa

[Tim]

 

The current agreement goes through 2021. And I think you're underestimating the players realizing how much they've given up over the last decade+, and the corner they've boxed themselves into. They're not going to just shrug their shoulders and figure that's that because Bryce Harper made more money than god.

By 2021, all of this season's offseason will be forgotten by most. I'll bet that you'll see teams spend in advance of the next negotiation.

 

A stoppage could easily occur before 2021; most analysis right now has been pointing out how the relationship between the union and owners is horrendous, and has been for a while (this offeseason is really more of capper), so the general consensus is that there are going to have to be some pretty significant changes between now and 2021. Simple spending more for a couple offseasons isn't going to get the union to roll over.

I guess we'll see. I don't think we'll see a stoppage mid-contract. The union would take hell for that.

[Sammy Sofa]

I mean, there's a not a time where they could pull that where they WOULDN'T take hell.

[davell]

Clark did a HORRIBLE job negotiating. There's nothing to do, until the next one. Which will almost definitely cost us a season of baseball, in my opinion.

 

But, the bottom line is this is a shitty FA class. Teams know that and are saving for next year. And yes, I think teams will spend more next off season, not JUST on Bryce and Manny.

 

But, the bottom line is this is a saber friendly sport now. All but a couple of teams look at FA differently than it was looked at by most, a decade ago.

 

They'll still spend, but its going to be controlled and when they think they've got a shot at winning.

 

Which brings me to another point, that I laughed at earlier today, discussing this with a buddy.

 

He said he read and agreed with an article, saying baseball was better 25 years ago. Back when teams were dumb and everyone thought they had a chance to win.....I think I agree too lol.

[weis21]

Which will almost definitely cost us a season of baseball, in my opinion.

please don't say things like this that make me sad

[Bobson Dugnutt]

i'm pro-player and all, and this current cba really sucks for them, but at the same time, this whole backlash against teams not signing players from this lackluster free agent class, at least with regard to certain players, is kind of silly. i mean, eric hosmer, who has accumulated 9.9 fWAR (!!!) over 7 seasons, including seasons of -1.7, -0.1 and 0.0, is reportedly sitting on two 7-year offers but is holding out for an eight-year deal.

 

but the cap should be raised significantly. and rookie control should be shorter. if FOs want to keep harping on not wanting to pay for past performance, then let players get paid when they're most likely to be putting up their best years.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Bobson Dugnutt

[Cubswin11]

i'm pro-player and all, and this current really cba sucks for them, but at the same time, this whole backlash against teams not signing players from this lackluster free agent class, at least with regard to certain players, is kind of silly. i mean, eric hosmer, who has accumulated 9.9 fWAR (!!!) over 7 seasons, including seasons of -1.7, -0.1 and 0.0, is reportedly sitting on two 7-year offers but is holding out for an eight-year deal.

 

but the cap should be raised significantly. and rookie control should be shorter. if FOs want to keep harping on not wanting to pay for past performance, then let players get paid when they're most likely to be putting up their best years.

Agree with most of this though I’d think small market teams would have major push back on shortening control. Another big thing that should be changed is tying draft position to spending, teams should be able to spend what they want and the current set up really incentivized losing since finishing a few spots lower increases spending ability rather significantly

[Bobson Dugnutt]

i'm pro-player and all, and this current really cba sucks for them, but at the same time, this whole backlash against teams not signing players from this lackluster free agent class, at least with regard to certain players, is kind of silly. i mean, eric hosmer, who has accumulated 9.9 fWAR (!!!) over 7 seasons, including seasons of -1.7, -0.1 and 0.0, is reportedly sitting on two 7-year offers but is holding out for an eight-year deal.

 

but the cap should be raised significantly. and rookie control should be shorter. if FOs want to keep harping on not wanting to pay for past performance, then let players get paid when they're most likely to be putting up their best years.

Agree with most of this though I’d think small market teams would have major push back on shortening control. Another big thing that should be changed is tying draft position to spending, teams should be able to spend what they want and the current set up really incentivized losing since finishing a few spots lower increases spending ability rather significantly

 

yup, i hear you. it would likely take a stoppage of play for that to even be on the table.

 

oh and im glad the cubs benefitted from it with bryant, but the service time rules need to change to something other than the "keep the player in the minors for 11 days and you get to control him for another year" BS. make it later in the season so it actually matters.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

i'm pro-player and all, and this current really cba sucks for them, but at the same time, this whole backlash against teams not signing players from this lackluster free agent class, at least with regard to certain players, is kind of silly. i mean, eric hosmer, who has accumulated 9.9 fWAR (!!!) over 7 seasons, including seasons of -1.7, -0.1 and 0.0, is reportedly sitting on two 7-year offers but is holding out for an eight-year deal.

 

but the cap should be raised significantly. and rookie control should be shorter. if FOs want to keep harping on not wanting to pay for past performance, then let players get paid when they're most likely to be putting up their best years.

Agree with most of this though I’d think small market teams would have major push back on shortening control. Another big thing that should be changed is tying draft position to spending, teams should be able to spend what they want and the current set up really incentivized losing since finishing a few spots lower increases spending ability rather significantly

 

Small market teams can suck it. Their owners are rich too. If they truly can't afford the cost of business of owning an MLB team, they should sell their team.

[Regular Show]

i'm pro-player and all, and this current really cba sucks for them, but at the same time, this whole backlash against teams not signing players from this lackluster free agent class, at least with regard to certain players, is kind of silly. i mean, eric hosmer, who has accumulated 9.9 fWAR (!!!) over 7 seasons, including seasons of -1.7, -0.1 and 0.0, is reportedly sitting on two 7-year offers but is holding out for an eight-year deal.

 

but the cap should be raised significantly. and rookie control should be shorter. if FOs want to keep harping on not wanting to pay for past performance, then let players get paid when they're most likely to be putting up their best years.

Agree with most of this though I’d think small market teams would have major push back on shortening control. Another big thing that should be changed is tying draft position to spending, teams should be able to spend what they want and the current set up really incentivized losing since finishing a few spots lower increases spending ability rather significantly

 

Small market teams can suck it. Their owners are rich too. If they truly can't afford the cost of business of owning an MLB team, they should sell their team.

 

I agree with the sentiment, but I don't begrudge small market teams and their plight. You're right about the owners of small market teams being rich enough to spend more during a team's competitive window. I would be angry if I were a Pirates fan about their lack of spending these last few years. Still, it is harder to compete in small markets when there is a big market team in the same division that is run efficiently like the Cubs.

 

I think small market teams should get more compensation in the form of draft picks/larger draft pools when they lose key free agents. I'm not sure about lowering the threshold for days on the big league roster for 1 year of service time. If they reduce the # of days needed on the big league roster teams will just keep prospects down even longer, and never call them up when September rolls around.

 

I mean some teams are already doing this -- I have no idea why the Rays didn't call up B. Honeywell last season outside of delaying his FA.

[Sammy Sofa]

I think small market teams should get more compensation in the form of draft picks/larger draft pools when they lose key free agents.

 

Wouldn't that just be more incentive to tank/spend less?

[Regular Show]

I think small market teams should get more compensation in the form of draft picks/larger draft pools when they lose key free agents.

 

Wouldn't that just be more incentive to tank/spend less?

 

Not necessarily. The Rays were never serious about re-signing A. Cobb whether they got compensated with a pick after the 4th round or a pick immediately after the 1st round. I think most small market teams rarely ever try to seriously re-sign their FAs (who receive a QO) once they reach FA. Many teams try to trade those players before they even reach FA now, like Mark Melancon and JD Martinez.

 

I do think the MLB draft needs some reform to lessen the incentive to tank for teams at the very bottom of the standings. There are multiple things you can do to avoid outright tanking, but if a team is comprised of a bunch of scrubs and okay prospects they're going to suck regardless. You can't force a team to spend money on FAs when it won't really help their long-term rebuild.

[Sammy Sofa]

Well, one of the problems is that some of these teams are technically just in a perpetual "rebuild" because of how little they spend. I'm just not sure why adding more incentives to not spending via draft picks/pool would change anything in that regard, especially since this is almost always a choice not to spend as opposed to an actual financial limitation.

[weis21]

I think small market teams should get more compensation in the form of draft picks/larger draft pools when they lose key free agents.

 

Wouldn't that just be more incentive to tank/spend less?

What he is trying to say is that small market team owners maybe don’t deserve to be assinated. BUT if they were to be...

[d_money]

Here's a list of the 2018 (as of 11/17) small market teams receiving competitive balance picks. Revenue is a factor in determining who makes the list. How in the hell does StL make the list? They proudly boast attendance of 3M+ every year, they make a ton on merchandising and have fielded a competitive team for years.

 

31. Pirates

32. Rays (compensation for failing to sign 2017 draft pick Drew Rasmussen)

33. Orioles

34. Padres

35. Diamondbacks

36. Royals

37. Indians

38. Rockies

39. Cardinals

 

Competitive Balance Round B (after second round)

 

70. Marlins

71. Athletics

72. Rays

73. Reds

74. Brewers

75. Twins

 

Maybe the factor in determining whether or not a team receives a CB pick is simply calculating the average W/L record over a 3-5 year period.

[Bull]

Loria’s a creep? Who knew? http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article198019154.html

[Post Count Padder]

38-year-old former Tigers starter Andy Van Hekken is attempting to earn a job with an MLB club, Anthony Fenech of the Detroit Free Press writes.

He pitched 30 innings in 2002 (yup, 2002), and that is the extent of his MLB experience. His numbers in the KBO the past few years haven't been too bad. You do you, dude.

[JudasIscariotTheBird]

Am I the only one here that would give my right nut to read the words "St. Louis Cardinals" and "relegated" in the same sentence?

[treebird]

Am I the only one here that would give my right nut to read the words "St. Louis Cardinals" and "relegated" in the same sentence?

 

St. Louis Cardinals no longer relegated to middling status, will now receive ten competitive balance picks per year.

 

[d_money]

Am I the only one here that would give my right nut to read the words "St. Louis Cardinals" and "relegated" in the same sentence?

Why not your left nut?

[chopsx9]

Am I the only one here that would give my right nut to read the words "St. Louis Cardinals" and "relegated" in the same sentence?

Why not your left nut?

He gave that one up to sign Heyward.

[JudasIscariotTheBird]

Am I the only one here that would give my right nut to read the words "St. Louis Cardinals" and "relegated" in the same sentence?

Why not your left nut?

He gave that one up to sign Heyward.

It was actually from an injury while I worked as a stunt man in a movie from the 80s.

[UMFan83]

Completely random but fun fact: The Miami/Florida Marlins will be playing their 25th season in 2018. In those 25 years, they have never spent a single day in first place during the months of July, August, September or October. The latest they’ve ever been at least tied for first is June 30th back in 2004. In the 2 years they won the World Series, they were never in 1st place later than April 11th.