What's your wish list for the trade deadline?

[Cubs Fan Dan]

I really want Parra, Zobrist and Hamels.

 

Our offense is abysmal. Zobrist and Parra at least bring some hope and take some pressure off of Rizzo and Bryant

[Clem Fandango]

I'm going to just gently toss this out there, because why the hell not: Mike Olt and PJ Francescan for Jedd Gyorko.

 

Not sure if Gyorko's fallen quite as hard as Olt, but he's getting there. So I figured we'd throw in something fringey, and Francescan's the first thing that came to mind; nice numbers, Rule 5 eligible, a text book Rule 5 pick, but probably not worth protection unless there were spots to spare.

 

I used to be a Gyorko fan. Now I'm not. He's quite awful. And we have no place to play him, nor would we really want to as his defense is... well, quite awful.

 

He's seriously just barely better than Castro this year, and Castro is REALLY bad. No thanks to Gyorko

[rawaction]

I really want Parra, Zobrist and Hamels.

 

Our offense is abysmal. Zobrist and Parra at least bring some hope and take some pressure off of Rizzo and Bryant

 

Zobrist makes way too much sense. I think the Cubs are more apt to go rental with a hitter, so as to keep spots open for all the young players. But Zobrist could allow the Cubs to bench Castro (moving Russell to SS), bench Russell who's also struggling, provide a platoon for Fowler (though, he's also better vs LHPs). He can/has hit anywhere in the lineup. Play multiple positions. Switch hit. Played for Maddon. Has a 1.004 OPS in high leverage situations this year. Hell, I'd even give him a 2-3 year extension if they traded for him, even at his age.

[rawaction]

Castro, Gleyber Torres, Carl Edwards, Paul Blackburn, Billy McKinney for Hamels

 

Vogelbach and Pierce Johnson for Zobrist and Clippard

[Felix Leiter]

I would ask the WSox about David Robertson. Shut down closer which we need and the WSox don't(for at least 2 years). Robertson makes $11-12M per for the 3 years. WSox need position players. I'd offer Christian V.(he's blocked for 3rd) and Junior Lake and young catching prospect. Of course, I still want Jose Quintana as our #3.

[sneakypower]

Castro, Gleyber Torres, Carl Edwards, Paul Blackburn, Billy McKinney for Hamels

this is WSR-levels bad

[davell]

Why is that a bad offer?

 

If I were critiquing, I'd think the Zobrist deal may need a higher end lead piece, since there's half the league evidently after him.

[Cubs Fan Dan]

I think the A's may be interested in Castro due to his contract and potential bounce back. Semien makes Castro look like the best SS ever defensively

 

McKinney, Edwards, Torres, Tseng for hamels

Castro and Cash for Zobrist

Burks, Pierce Johnson, Zac Rosscup for Parra and Will Smith

[Backtobanks]

If we're going to make a big deal, go after Carlos Gomez to solve offensive problems and then get a cheap (in players) rental (Harang, Kennedy, Latos, etc.) for a 5th starter. During the offseason, go big for a FA pitcher.

[SRQCub]

There are rumors out there that Baltimore may become a seller, and they have a couple of names that would be interesting. Chris Davis would be a guy I'd love to have. And with their treatment abuse of Gausman, I wonder what a package for those two might look like?

[Bryants Disco Ball]

If we're going to make a big deal, go after Carlos Gomez to solve offensive problems and then get a cheap (in players) rental (Harang, Kennedy, Latos, etc.) for a 5th starter. During the offseason, go big for a FA pitcher.

 

I realize I'm in the minority, but I don't really want Gomez and I actually think he'd be a player many would get frustrated at. I understand how great his WAR was for a few seasons, but he's just not as good as the package it would take to get him. I don't know what his defense rates out, but if you watch him on a fairly regular basis, you can see how bad of angles he takes on balls and how many Castro-type errors he makes where you're like, "WTF?"

 

He also has to be one of the worst overall base runners I've ever seen, and his injury history is starting to build a bit.

 

I'm not saying he wouldn't be an upgrade, but I figure the Brewers will want a lot and I just don't see him being worth it. Again, though, I acknowledge I'm in the minority. Hell, I might be the only one who doesn't want him. I'd rather just get Parra from them for a B-level prospect.

[Tedward]

Castro, Gleyber Torres, Carl Edwards, Paul Blackburn, Billy McKinney for Hamels

 

Vogelbach and Pierce Johnson for Zobrist and Clippard

 

I don't think this offer for Hamels is unreasonable either. Other than possibly Torres, I don't see a sure thing for Philly. Maybe Castro bounces back, but who the heck knows if that'll happen. Only piece I'd add would be cash coming back with Hamels, or, and I'm reaching, they just take Jackson's contract instead.

[Clem Fandango]

If we're going to make a big deal, go after Carlos Gomez to solve offensive problems and then get a cheap (in players) rental (Harang, Kennedy, Latos, etc.) for a 5th starter. During the offseason, go big for a FA pitcher.

 

I realize I'm in the minority, but I don't really want Gomez and I actually think he'd be a player many would get frustrated at. I understand how great his WAR was for a few seasons, but he's just not as good as the package it would take to get him. I don't know what his defense rates out, but if you watch him on a fairly regular basis, you can see how bad of angles he takes on balls and how many Castro-type errors he makes where you're like, "WTF?"

 

He also has to be one of the worst overall base runners I've ever seen, and his injury history is starting to build a bit.

 

I'm not saying he wouldn't be an upgrade, but I figure the Brewers will want a lot and I just don't see him being worth it. Again, though, I acknowledge I'm in the minority. Hell, I might be the only one who doesn't want him. I'd rather just get Parra from them for a B-level prospect.

 

He's been worth 16.2 fWAR the previous three seasons so the whole "I know his WAR was good for a few seasons" thing is referring to literally his previous three years. And even in a nagging injury riddled "down year" he's probably gonna be worth 3+ fWAR before the year is over. He IS worth the package it would probably take to get him.

 

As such, he is my #1 target on my wish list.

 

1) Carlos Gomez

2a) David Price

2b) Cole Hamels

3) Ben Zobrist

4) Gerardo Parra

5) Justin Upton

[Clem Fandango]

There are rumors out there that Baltimore may become a seller, and they have a couple of names that would be interesting. Chris Davis would be a guy I'd love to have. And with their treatment abuse of Gausman, I wonder what a package for those two might look like?

 

I'm assuming you'd put Davis in LF? The difference between Coghlan and Davis is negligible to this point.

[Derwood]

I think just about every trade proposal I see is too much (based on how traded go historically). You rarely see 5 or 6-for-1 deals

[Bryants Disco Ball]

If we're going to make a big deal, go after Carlos Gomez to solve offensive problems and then get a cheap (in players) rental (Harang, Kennedy, Latos, etc.) for a 5th starter. During the offseason, go big for a FA pitcher.

 

I realize I'm in the minority, but I don't really want Gomez and I actually think he'd be a player many would get frustrated at. I understand how great his WAR was for a few seasons, but he's just not as good as the package it would take to get him. I don't know what his defense rates out, but if you watch him on a fairly regular basis, you can see how bad of angles he takes on balls and how many Castro-type errors he makes where you're like, "WTF?"

 

He also has to be one of the worst overall base runners I've ever seen, and his injury history is starting to build a bit.

 

I'm not saying he wouldn't be an upgrade, but I figure the Brewers will want a lot and I just don't see him being worth it. Again, though, I acknowledge I'm in the minority. Hell, I might be the only one who doesn't want him. I'd rather just get Parra from them for a B-level prospect.

 

He's been worth 16.2 fWAR the previous three seasons so the whole "I know his WAR was good for a few seasons" thing is referring to literally his previous three years. And even in a nagging injury riddled "down year" he's probably gonna be worth 3+ fWAR before the year is over. He IS worth the package it would probably take to get him.

 

As such, he is my #1 target on my wish list.

 

1) Carlos Gomez

2a) David Price

2b) Cole Hamels

3) Ben Zobrist

4) Gerardo Parra

5) Justin Upton

 

What was BJ Upton worth the year he became a free agent? I actually don't know, but I bet all his WAR was awesome the previous years too. Maybe not.

[Backtobanks]

If we're going to make a big deal, go after Carlos Gomez to solve offensive problems and then get a cheap (in players) rental (Harang, Kennedy, Latos, etc.) for a 5th starter. During the offseason, go big for a FA pitcher.

 

I realize I'm in the minority, but I don't really want Gomez and I actually think he'd be a player many would get frustrated at. I understand how great his WAR was for a few seasons, but he's just not as good as the package it would take to get him. I don't know what his defense rates out, but if you watch him on a fairly regular basis, you can see how bad of angles he takes on balls and how many Castro-type errors he makes where you're like, "WTF?"

 

He also has to be one of the worst overall base runners I've ever seen, and his injury history is starting to build a bit.

 

I'm not saying he wouldn't be an upgrade, but I figure the Brewers will want a lot and I just don't see him being worth it. Again, though, I acknowledge I'm in the minority. Hell, I might be the only one who doesn't want him. I'd rather just get Parra from them for a B-level prospect.

 

Trading for Parra leaves us with a hole in CF for next year. Gomez is a superior player and signed through next year at a reasonable cost.

[JennieGarthAlgar]

I want Teheran, Zobrist and Chapman. Make Chapman a SP in offseason.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

If we're going to make a big deal, go after Carlos Gomez to solve offensive problems and then get a cheap (in players) rental (Harang, Kennedy, Latos, etc.) for a 5th starter. During the offseason, go big for a FA pitcher.

 

I realize I'm in the minority, but I don't really want Gomez and I actually think he'd be a player many would get frustrated at. I understand how great his WAR was for a few seasons, but he's just not as good as the package it would take to get him. I don't know what his defense rates out, but if you watch him on a fairly regular basis, you can see how bad of angles he takes on balls and how many Castro-type errors he makes where you're like, "WTF?"

 

He also has to be one of the worst overall base runners I've ever seen, and his injury history is starting to build a bit.

 

I'm not saying he wouldn't be an upgrade, but I figure the Brewers will want a lot and I just don't see him being worth it. Again, though, I acknowledge I'm in the minority. Hell, I might be the only one who doesn't want him. I'd rather just get Parra from them for a B-level prospect.

 

Trading for Parra leaves us with a hole in CF for next year. Gomez is a superior player and signed through next year at a reasonable cost.

 

I'd rather sign a Parra-type next year and keep the prospects to trade for somebody else.

[Clem Fandango]

What was BJ Upton worth the year he became a free agent? I actually don't know, but I bet all his WAR was awesome the previous years too. Maybe not.

 

Yeah, the difference here is that Carlos Gomez is still really good. Even if you go all the way back to 2007 when Gomez was a slap hitting leadoff guy, he's still the 9th most valuable CF'er in baseball during that span. That's over the last 8 years through today. 9th. And he's only been elite level for the last two seasons.

 

But let's just go back to 2012 when he had his breakout year and started hitting for power in the 2nd half of that year which carried over into his 7.5 win 2013...

 

http://i.imgur.com/8PZKunZ.png

 

3rd best CF'er in baseball. The two above him are perennial MVP candidates and two of the greatest players of this generation. So if you wanna take franchise cornerstones and probable future HOF'ers out of the equation, Gomez has been the best CF'er among the rest of the league since 2012 up until today.

 

So yeah, Carlos Gomez is good. Really [expletive] good. Guys like him (elite CF'ers that aren't rentals) usually don't become available outside of free agency. If Gomez is available, you get him and you extend him immediately.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

What was BJ Upton worth the year he became a free agent? I actually don't know, but I bet all his WAR was awesome the previous years too. Maybe not.

 

Yeah, the difference here is that Carlos Gomez is still really good. Even if you go all the way back to 2007 when Gomez was a slap hitting leadoff guy, he's still the 9th most valuable CF'er in baseball during that span. That's over the last 8 years through today. 9th. And he's only been elite level for the last two seasons.

 

But let's just go back to 2012 when he had his breakout year and started hitting for power in the 2nd half of that year which carried over into his 7.5 win 2013...

 

http://i.imgur.com/8PZKunZ.png

 

3rd best CF'er in baseball. The two above him are perennial MVP candidates and two of the greatest players of this generation. So if you wanna take franchise cornerstones and probable future HOF'ers out of the equation, Gomez has been the best CF'er among the rest of the league since 2012 up until today.

 

So yeah, Carlos Gomez is good. Really [expletive] good. Guys like him (elite CF'ers that aren't rentals) usually don't become available outside of free agency. If Gomez is available, you get him and you extend him immediately.

 

This is going to be such a bad reply that people won't respect............but just watch him for a good amount of time. Just watch. He's not as good as you think he is, and the past accomplishments don't mean anything moving forward.

 

I remember in September of Pujols' free agent year remarking here on how after watching him, he just didn't look the same. And of course, nobody agreed. Why would they? The black and white numbers all showed he was the man.

 

I'm not sure how many Brewers games you can or would even want to watch. But unfortunately, I have to. And Carlos Gomez is not that good. When I say not THAT good, it doesn't mean he's not good. It just means I think the praise he is receiving here is too high.

 

Feel free to bump this in the future. I have no problem being wrong. But I don't think I will be.

 

Also, one other note.....when you said that the difference is that Carlos Gomez is still really good, wasn't Upton still really good at one time? Meaning, that November when he was a free agent, wouldn't people have been able to post his WAR when anybody questioned wanting Upton for the contract he was going to get?

 

ETA: I'd take Lo Cain over Gomez right now all day.

[Guest]

Gomez the elite center fielder is built on his 2013 and 2014, where he hit for more average and power(His 2013 also had an aberrant +27 UZR). He has physical tools to spare, but that still was a surprise because it was 5 years, multiple organizations, and 2000+ MLB PAs since he was in the middle of a top 100 prospects list. This year he's been a good player, but the power and average/BABIP are more in line with his 2012 and prior performance. That's still worth having on your team, but Gomez the 3ish win CF is not the same as Gomez the best CF this side of Trout/McCutchen.

 

Moreover, and I'm stealing from wherever I first saw this, Gomez does not seem like the type of hitter the FO prefers to use as a cornerstone. Think about all the additions they've made and players they've prioritized: Bryant, Schwarber, Fowler, Montero, Soler, Coghlan, McKinney, Zagunis, Happ, even failed ones like Stewart, all of these guys fit in with their motto to be selective and control the strike zone. Gomez will take some walks when pitched around, but as a guy who is consistently below average at chasing pitches(O-Swing%) he doesn't fit that profile. Between that and the real chance that his 2013-2014 performance are not coming back, it's hard to see the front office putting out the real talent(intra-division no less) to get him.

[Clem Fandango]

Upton's best year was 2008 (4.8 fWAR). The year before his FA he had a 3.3 fWAR, and he had a slash line of .246/.298/.454 that season.

 

And of course you'd take Cain, this season and last season his numbers are going to look like... well, Carlos Gomez's from the previous two years. That and he's under control until 2017.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

Upton's best year was 2008 (4.8 fWAR). The year before his FA he had a 3.3 fWAR, and he had a slash line of .246/.298/.454 that season.

 

And of course you'd take Cain, this season and last season his numbers are going to look like... well, Carlos Gomez's from the previous two years. That and he's under control until 2017.

 

Well, that and Cain is just a better baseball player.

 

But, I respect your opinion. We just differ on just how good Gomez is. No biggie.

 

Like Tiger alluded to, we aren't going to have to worry about it anyway. Gomez is just not their kind of player. He won't be a Cub.

[Clem Fandango]

Gomez the elite center fielder is built on his 2013 and 2014, where he hit for more average and power(His 2013 also had an aberrant +27 UZR). He has physical tools to spare, but that still was a surprise because it was 5 years, multiple organizations, and 2000+ MLB PAs since he was in the middle of a top 100 prospects list. This year he's been a good player, but the power and average/BABIP are more in line with his 2012 and prior performance. That's still worth having on your team, but Gomez the 3ish win CF is not the same as Gomez the best CF this side of Trout/McCutchen.

 

Moreover, and I'm stealing from wherever I first saw this, Gomez does not seem like the type of hitter the FO prefers to use as a cornerstone. Think about all the additions they've made and players they've prioritized: Bryant, Schwarber, Fowler, Montero, Soler, Coghlan, McKinney, Zagunis, Happ, even failed ones like Stewart, all of these guys fit in with their motto to be selective and control the strike zone. Gomez will take some walks when pitched around, but as a guy who is consistently below average at chasing pitches(O-Swing%) he doesn't fit that profile. Between that and the real chance that his 2013-2014 performance are not coming back, it's hard to see the front office putting out the real talent(intra-division no less) to get him.

 

For starters, I'll agree with you on the FO part. Gomez does not draw a lot of walks, and K's a good bit, too. The FO not being interested in him wouldn't surprise me in that regard.

 

But onto the numbers...

 

His numbers this year are declined a bit because he had been playing through a nagging hip injury for the first couple of months. And you can't compare that to 2012 because for half of 2012 he was hitting the way he had been taught to -- the speedy, grindy lead off hitter way -- until he made an adjustment to his swing between Jul 6th and July 23rd.

 

http://i.imgur.com/V7zlgqq.png

 

His numbers in the 2nd half after he made the adjustment lineup with the numbers he's had ever since. So you can't compare this season's injury riddled down year with a season in which he completely changed his approach halfway through the season when, in the first half, he was quite bad (.709 OPS) and the 2nd half (.809 OPS) is more in line with what he did the following two years (.843 and .833 OPS, respectively).

 

Also his BABIP this season is right in line with his previous two seasons (.330, .339, .344), whereas his 2012 season was .296. Also that .267 AVG is a lot closer to the 2nd half .278 he put up vs the .233 he put up in the first half of 2012.

 

Yeah, the defense in 2012 was a huge aberration, but he's still been one of the Top 5-7 defensive CF'ers in other years. This season's hip injury is the likely culprit behind his diminished play at the plate, in the field, and on the bases, and, IMO, is not an indicator of him regressing to pre-2013 levels.