Hammel/Samardzija Traded to A's for Russell/McKinney/Straily

[Guest]

This is silly, nobody likes to lose and the fact that these guys are young doesn't mean they're all on board for losing to win. If you don't think castro is annoyed at his 5th consecutive sell-off I don't know what to tell you. Arrieta came from a team that was losers forever, finally broke through to the playoffs and is immediately sent to another organization losing forever..

 

They don't give a [expletive] about the plan

This.

 

LOL at thinking Rizzo and Castro are OK with losing because they know about "the plan."

[Guest]

Just kidding, they're probably reading Keith Law tweets in the dugout and calculating draft position after each loss.

 

Yeah, Castro's just a stupid brown guy who could never understand value and team control and the fact that guys like Bryant, Baez, and Russell will make them contenders very soon.

 

And I also really doubt that Arrieta has all too much ill will towards the organization that just transformed his career.

 

Now I'm wondering if *you* don't understand that it's possible to be simultaneously mad that something happened and understand that it'll be better in the long run.

 

That wasn't your original post at all. You implied that Castro was too dumb to actually understand these things.

 

What the [expletive]? No, he didn't.

[Guest]

but they are stupid if they think they had a shot this year.

 

Quite a few posters got pretty excited when the Cubs started playing better and winning some games.

 

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while

 

An almost 2 month long nut, eh?

[Guest]

I like it.

 

WHAT THE [expletive]

[Clem Fandango]

but they are stupid if they think they had a shot this year.

 

Quite a few posters got pretty excited when the Cubs started playing better and winning some games.

 

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while

 

An almost 2 month long nut, eh?

 

I was antagonizing a bit. Fact is, the Cubs lost two guys who play once every 5 days. 3 of their last 4 wins were achieved with starters who weren't them. There's no reason they can't keep winning ball games. It's the offense that is developing and getting better that's helping them win more lately. I honestly think between Wada, Hendricks, Beeler, etc. to replace Shark and Hammel that the Cubs can still do just fine the way they've been doing the last couple of months. I think a lot of people who are upset at the Cubs "blowing up the team" don't realize that the Cubs can still continue to perform at the same level they've been performing at.

[SouthSideRyan]

I like it.

 

Return to the shadows

[UMFan83]

So according to Gammons, when the trade was completed, Beane said to Theo "you just got Barry Larkin"

[toonsterwu]

First off, I hope everyone had a great 4th. I got away from things, so that was nice. I briefly caught this on my phone, but am not a fan of tapatalk (or phone typing in general).

 

I can't recall a mid-season trade as bold as this. I don't like this trade ... I don't hate this trade. It's gutsy, that's for sure. From a value perspective, I can't fault it. You rarely get elite talent involved in trades these days, and Addison Russell is elite. I really like McKinney, and I'm sort of fascinated who the PTBNL is (or if it's cash, maybe it's been named already as I haven't sifted through the thread). There's a deep bench of decent arms in the A's system, with some high upside/high risk types that I wonder if the Cubs might be able to nab. Even a rookie league upside gamble would be fascinating.

 

That said, we just shipped off our main chips without getting pitching in return. At some point in time, we will need to find that pitching. As good as Bosio is, you need arm talent (for Arrieta's flaws, he always had arm talent, and you can't really depend on "rescue" arms like Arrieta to build a playoff rotation). Realistically, this is a smart FO that knows that, so I gotta think that they sifted through the pitching talent and realized that they couldn't nab that top arm that they wanted, the Daniel Norris or Kevin Gausman types (which was to be expected in some respect). So, instead of waiting (and I applaud them for this ... waiting on Hammel didn't make sense, as the perception of Hammel is not that of an elite starter, and waiting on Samardzija risked other arms coming into the market), they went to Plan B (nabbing the best positional talent), which will lead to Plan C (trading some of those positional talents for pitching).

 

As fascinating as that secondary plan sounds, you also have to be able to get what you desired, which is easier said than done. You also have to gamble on the right guy, and trade guys at peak value. It's a lot of moving parts, and it makes me wonder more about a Starlin Castro trade for pitching down the line (a year or two from now, if guys pan out). Still, I applaud them for aggressiveness, getting excellent value in a deal, and getting an elite prospect plus another top talent. If one door doesn't open (the ability to get the desired pitching), you try to force it open (by creating a 2nd avenue to get said pitching). I really like Addison Russell a ton, and it wouldn't surprise me if McKinney is the best prospect from the deal when it's all said and done (to be clear, I think Russell will be, just saying McKinney's talent seems legitimate). Not a huge fan of Straily, but for a 3rd piece ... alright. Usable end of rotation arm who could bounce back.

 

For the A's, this is a fascinating win-now gamble that, considering who is at the helm, almost seems like it could be deserving of it's own mini-book. Now, this isn't a "wipeout" of the system, although it's a monster shell-shock (they still have Robertson, who I think can handle short) and some decent arms to gamble on. That said, if things don't pan out, they are going to have to hit the restart button and start moving guys for young talent. Still, sometimes you have to gamble to win it all, and this is as good an opportunity as there has been for the A's in the Beane tenure.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

but they are stupid if they think they had a shot this year.

 

Quite a few posters got pretty excited when the Cubs started playing better and winning some games.

 

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while

 

An almost 2 month long nut, eh?

 

I was antagonizing a bit. Fact is, the Cubs lost two guys who play once every 5 days. 3 of their last 4 wins were achieved with starters who weren't them. There's no reason they can't keep winning ball games. It's the offense that is developing and getting better that's helping them win more lately. I honestly think between Wada, Hendricks, Beeler, etc. to replace Shark and Hammel that the Cubs can still do just fine the way they've been doing the last couple of months. I think a lot of people who are upset at the Cubs "blowing up the team" don't realize that the Cubs can still continue to perform at the same level they've been performing at.

 

In addition, the Cubs were 3-17 in games started by Shark this season. Which means they weren't winning many games when he played any way.

[Clem Fandango]

So according to Gammons, when the trade was completed, Beane said to Theo "you just got Barry Larkin"

 

I've seen a lot of people quoting a scouting report that called him "Barry Larkin with power". I also just looked up Larkin's numbers and on the surface they look good and then you start looking closer and realize oh yeah Larkin was [expletive] amazing. He averaged 5.2 rWAR (5.0 fWAR) over the course of 12 seasons. Supposedly we have that... but he hits for more power.

[Gmoney08]

So according to Gammons, when the trade was completed, Beane said to Theo "you just got Barry Larkin"

 

Psh, Theo responded that Barry would be the 4th best SS in our system.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Gmoney08

[SouthSideRyan]

3-14, but yeah it's amazing

[Guest]

That said, we just shipped off our main chips without getting pitching in return. At some point in time, we will need to find that pitching. As good as Bosio is, you need arm talent (for Arrieta's flaws, he always had arm talent, and you can't really depend on "rescue" arms like Arrieta to build a playoff rotation). Realistically, this is a smart FO that knows that, so I gotta think that they sifted through the pitching talent and realized that they couldn't nab that top arm that they wanted, the Daniel Norris or Kevin Gausman types (which was to be expected in some respect). So, instead of waiting (and I applaud them for this ... waiting on Hammel didn't make sense, as the perception of Hammel is not that of an elite starter, and waiting on Samardzija risked other arms coming into the market), they went to Plan B (nabbing the best positional talent), which will lead to Plan C (trading some of those positional talents for pitching).

 

Isn't arm talent exactly what they've been drafting for in just about every round after the 1st (and what they look for in buy-low guys)?

 

As far as minor league pitching goes, I'm totally fine with taking the lottery ticket quantity approach on guys who have the traits that they look for and devoting the big resources (first round picks, major trade pieces, what have you) to positional prospects.

[Sammy Sofa]

Use the money to fix the pitching. Use the prospects for the hitting, either via their own emergence or via trades.

[Clem Fandango]

Use the money to fix the pitching. Use the prospects for the hitting, either via their own emergence or via trades.

 

Bingo

[EhDubya]

This is silly, nobody likes to lose and the fact that these guys are young doesn't mean they're all on board for losing to win. If you don't think castro is annoyed at his 5th consecutive sell-off I don't know what to tell you. Arrieta came from a team that was losers forever, finally broke through to the playoffs and is immediately sent to another organization losing forever..

 

They don't give a [expletive] about the plan

This.

 

LOL at thinking Rizzo and Castro are OK with losing because they know about "the plan."

 

LOL at thinking anyone anywhere said they were OK with losing.

[SouthSideRyan]

Use the money to fix the pitching. Use the prospects for the hitting, either via their own emergence or via trades.

 

Money? I don't have your money, it's in Pete's house! And Laura's house and Todd's house!

[Guest]

So according to Gammons, when the trade was completed, Beane said to Theo "you just got Barry Larkin"

 

FYI, that is, by far, my favorite comparison for Russell.

[ScrubMD]

From Brett:

 

Ken Rosenthal focuses on the ballsy go-for-it nature of the deal from the A’s perspective, which I think it absolutely is. He mentions Wil Myers’ step back this year, Xander Bogaerts’ struggles to adjust in the bigs, and even Bryce Harper’s issues – it was worth the A’s rolling the dice on Russell. Not that it wasn’t worth it for the Cubs, who now have options going forward.

 

Harper is 21 and already has 8.9 WAR in the big leagues, Bogaerts has a .680 OPS in his first 100 games as a 20/21 year old SS, Wil Myers is the only fair name to mention to make that point. Rosenthal needs to do some research and come up with some better examples.

[EhDubya]

So because a few guys are slumping, that means all prospects are overvalued, obviously.

[UMFan83]

Use the money to fix the pitching. Use the prospects for the hitting, either via their own emergence or via trades.

 

Money? I don't have your money, it's in Pete's house! And Laura's house and Todd's house!

 

Peggy: You never add pitching

Don: THATS WHAT THE MONEYS FOR!

[Guest]

Bernie Pleskoff ‏@BerniePleskoff 37m

 

Published report says #Indians could have dealt Lindor, Naquin and Salazar to #Cubs for Samardzija and Hammell. Indians refused the trade.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Good, screw Lindor

[RammyFanny]

Meh, I read that article earlier and the author was just saying that's what the Indians would have had to throw out there to match the value or something IIRC, and asking fans if they should do it.

[Guest]

Meh, I read that article earlier and the author was just saying that's what the Indians would have had to throw out there to match the value or something IIRC, and asking fans if they should do it.

 

What was the article?