Cubs trade for Ian Stewart/Weathers pg. 5 (Colvin+DJ)

[WilcoFan]

The Cubs could make three more "terrible" moves identical to this one and it would roughly equal last year's salary paid to John Grabow.

[WilcoFan]

What are the other options? If you're seriously going to argue in favor of giving Aramis the long term deal which you have argued against so much, or if you're going to argue that your mish-mosh of crap platoon would've been a clearly superior option, I'm pretty much not gonna bother with the argument.

 

You've already made multiple wrong points because you are pulling whatever you want out of your ass to argue against the upside of this move...at least you admitted you were wrong when called on it, I guess.

 

I'm still waiting for a compelling argument in favor of it.

 

So far, I've got:

 

1) He used to be sort of close to average.

2) Maybe his terrible season last year didn't mean anything.

3) He's left-handed.

4) Our scouts see something in him they like.

5) Baseball America had a boner for him half a decade ago.

 

If it's early February and you've spent all offseason trying to dig up a credible third baseman and you haven't found anyone, then maybe you scrape up a busted prospect or injury reclamation for the league minimum. You don't settle on a guy who's both as your starting 3b on Dec. 8, knowing he's going to make a couple of million in arbitration.

 

 

"Your argument is incredibly poor, especially when I create a caricature of it."

[davell]

Theo should have cloned a 25 year old David Wright, in anticipation of us needing a 3B. Then, he should have given up Blake Lalli to obtain him. If he doesn't get Fielder for 4 years and 20 million TOTAL, he sucks. Oh, and he better have every mailman on the take, so he can steal away all the bids on Darvish. If we don't win the posting fee for 500,000 or less, it's because Theo didn't do his job.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Put another way, do you think the chance of Stewart improving to be a solid regular and making good on his prospect status(as high as #4 in MLB) is worth the incremental 1 million or so he'll cost over DeWitt? Is there another 3B option you prefer that offers some better combination of performance, upside, and affordability?

 

No, I don't, because I find that chance to be so slim as to not be worth considering.

 

The BA ranking was seven years ago, based on one great season at mid-A ball where he showed all his current skill set plus a .319 batting average. The idea that he's going to hit for any sort of average should be a distant memory at this point.

 

As far as I'm concerned, his upside is that he returns to his glory days with the Rockies: a nearly 2-WAR player.

 

An upside of an average starter, with two major red flags (his inability to make contact and the wrist injury)? All kinds of pass.

[Guest]

What is so strange about this is that Kyle wanted to put together a platoon at 3B that would get us 1-2 WAR.

 

Stewart should be able to provide 2WAR and might even have some upside beyond that.

 

Is this really all about the $2M we're gambling on him? $2M that could turn out to be a bargain if he even plays up to his 08-10 self?

[CUBZ99]

 

I realize he stepped into a mess, but he has done nothing to inspire any confidence so far. I'm holding out hope that the Cubs are in on Fielder, or Darvish or the Cuban guys, because so far we have seen him acting like a small market Pres/GM.

 

 

IT. HAS. BEEN. ONE. MONTH.

 

 

This is ridiculous.

 

Cubsz

 

I do say this with the utmost respect, I really do, but I believe you are being really foolish right now. I believe you are acting like a child who wants that piece of cake before eating his corn.

 

Be inspired. Don't be inspired. I respect you either way. But I can't take anyone seriously if they need some instant gratification to feel good about the direction Theo is taking us.

 

Patience. We are all going to need some of it.

 

I think it is funny that the slightest criticism of Theo and Hoyer is stupid and foolish. How dare I question a move? or joke about them running the organization like a small market team so far. I hope that they have a plan and spend the money on Darvish, Fielder, but until then I will reserve judgment.

 

I get the fact that it will take time to fix Hendry's mess, I just don't like any of the moves so far. Maybe this is all that is available, and he is working with what he has. Just because he is a new GM and he has won WS before doesn't mean that I have to like every move.

 

I hope that I am wrong and Stewart becomes terrific, I just think as of now the move doesn't do anything to make the Cubs better.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Stewart should be able to provide 2WAR and might even have some upside beyond that.

 

Is this really all about the $2M we're gambling on him? $2M that could turn out to be a bargain if he even plays up to his 08-10 self?

 

Stewart has never, ever in his career put up 2.0 WAR.

 

The only time he's ever had a season that would have surpassed a 2.0 WAR pace if we extrapolate it to 162 games was 2008, and he needed a .362 BABIP to get there. And that's if we only use fWAR and not bWAR.

 

And now we're saying he "should be able to provide" that very unlofty total that he's barely ever, if ever, been able to reach?

 

I wanted a platoon that I thought had a downside of 1-2 WAR. That's Stewart's upside.

Edited December 9, 2011 by Hairyducked Idiot

[Guest]

It's not because he's a new GM or because he won a World Series. There's any number of idiots you could conceivably say that about.

 

It's because he's a [expletive] genius and he's [expletive] brilliant at building baseball teams.

[OleMissCub]

You guys are attacking Kyle like he's a 9/11 truther or something. He's making (mostly) valid points.

 

I'm a bit indifferent on it because I'm trusting Theo & Co. here, but it's pretty ridiculous to bombard someone just because they are questioning a signing (AFTER ONLY FOUR MONTHS!1!11). He didn't insult your mother.

[Guest]

Stewart should be able to provide 2WAR and might even have some upside beyond that.

 

Is this really all about the $2M we're gambling on him? $2M that could turn out to be a bargain if he even plays up to his 08-10 self?

 

Stewart has never, ever in his career put up 2.0 WAR.

 

The only time he's ever had a season that would have surpassed a 2.0 WAR pace if we extrapolate it to 162 games was 2008, and he needed a .362 BABIP to get there. And that's if we only use fWAR and not bWAR.

 

And now we're saying he "should be able to provide" that very unlofty total that he's barely ever, if ever, been able to reach?

 

I wanted a platoon that I thought had a downside of 1-2 WAR. That's Stewart's upside.

 

 

Would you have preferred I said nearly 2 WAR?

[CUBZ99]

What is so strange about this is that Kyle wanted to put together a platoon at 3B that would get us 1-2 WAR.

 

Stewart should be able to provide 2WAR and might even have some upside beyond that.

 

Is this really all about the $2M we're gambling on him? $2M that could turn out to be a bargain if he even plays up to his 08-10 self?

 

Stewart hasn't put up a 2WAR in his career so far, what makes you think that he will all of the sudden do it next year?

 

Colvin put up a 2WAR just a year ago. Even Blake DeWitt has put up a higher WAR than Stewart in his career.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

You guys are attacking Kyle like he's a 9/11 truther or something. He's making (mostly) valid points.

 

I'm a bit indifferent on it because I'm trusting Theo & Co. here, but it's pretty ridiculous to bombard someone just because they are questioning a signing (AFTER ONLY FOUR MONTHS!1!11). He didn't insult your mother.

 

They aren't really attacking me. They are just arguing their points. Nobody's come along and made some pointless dismissive post yet or anything. We're all just talking baseball here, that's what we came here to do.

 

I haven't ruled out attacking their mothers yet, anyway. Or at least not Ian Stewart's mother. I could probably slap her for producing such a bad third baseman as a son.

[Sammy Sofa]

Kyle sucks, but so does Stewart, so it's not like he's really saying anything controversial.

[OleMissCub]

They aren't really attacking me. They are just arguing their points. Nobody's come along and made some pointless dismissive post yet or anything. We're all just talking baseball here, that's what we came here to do.

 

Stop trying to be diplomatic. A moderator pretty much accused you of trolling because you were making salient baseball points, which apparently you aren't allowed to do if they run contrary to our FO. It's bullisht.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

People who have put up a 2-fWAR season in MLB:

 

Ryan Theriot

Darwin Barney

Rich Hill

Lenny Harris

Shawn Estes

Ian Stewart

 

People who have peaked at 1.5 fWAR:

Ian Stewart

Neifi Perez

[Guest]

Stewart should be able to provide 2WAR and might even have some upside beyond that.

 

Is this really all about the $2M we're gambling on him? $2M that could turn out to be a bargain if he even plays up to his 08-10 self?

 

Stewart has never, ever in his career put up 2.0 WAR.

The only time he's ever had a season that would have surpassed a 2.0 WAR pace if we extrapolate it to 162 games was 2008, and he needed a .362 BABIP to get there. And that's if we only use fWAR and not bWAR.

 

And now we're saying he "should be able to provide" that very unlofty total that he's barely ever, if ever, been able to reach?

 

I wanted a platoon that I thought had a downside of 1-2 WAR. That's Stewart's upside.

 

 

in 09 he had 1.1 oWAR... what would his dWAR have been had he not played about 20% of his games at a position other than 3B?

 

Not trying to prove anything because I honestly am not sure what it would be.

 

He also was worth 1.5 oWAR in 2010, but he did play all of that season at 3B.

[Sammy Sofa]

I mean, yeah, obviously I'm pulling for a diamond in the rough scenario, but I'm kinda stunned so many people seem to really think that's all that likely. We've got a kickass FO, but they're not immune to ending up with shitty players, and this guy is all but a lock to be a shitty player offensively given the wrist injury. It's not a huge deal, but it is what it almost certainly is. Edited December 9, 2011 by Sammy Sofa

[Geech]

I'm pretty much with Kyle on this one. I don't really see what Stewart gives us over Blake Dewitt except maybe a faint glimmer of upside. Hopefully I'll be eating my words a year from now, but I don't see much point to this move.

[Guest]

They aren't really attacking me. They are just arguing their points. Nobody's come along and made some pointless dismissive post yet or anything. We're all just talking baseball here, that's what we came here to do.

 

Stop trying to be diplomatic. A moderator pretty much accused you of trolling because you were making salient baseball points, which apparently you aren't allowed to do if they run contrary to our FO. It's bullisht.

 

 

Really?

 

How about the two times he made things up and was called on it? That's not evidence that he's just saying whatever he can come up with to back his argument?

[Tracer Bullet]

You guys are attacking Kyle like he's a 9/11 truther or something. He's making (mostly) valid points.

 

I'm a bit indifferent on it because I'm trusting Theo & Co. here, but it's pretty ridiculous to bombard someone just because they are questioning a signing (AFTER ONLY FOUR MONTHS!1!11). He didn't insult your mother.

 

Your only contribution so far has been to try to stir up emotion. Why don't you just not participate at all?

[OleMissCub]

People who have put up a 2-fWAR season in MLB:

 

Ryan Theriot

Darwin Barney

Rich Hill

Lenny Harris

Shawn Estes

Ian Stewart

 

People who have peaked at 1.5 fWAR:

Ian Stewart

Neifi Perez

 

SHUTUP, DAMN YOU!

 

http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/9945/someonetalkedwarishells.jpg

[Geech]

They aren't really attacking me. They are just arguing their points. Nobody's come along and made some pointless dismissive post yet or anything. We're all just talking baseball here, that's what we came here to do.

 

Stop trying to be diplomatic. A moderator pretty much accused you of trolling because you were making salient baseball points, which apparently you aren't allowed to do if they run contrary to our FO. It's bullisht.

 

 

Really?

 

How about the two times he made things up and was called on it? That's not evidence that he's just saying whatever he can come up with to back his argument?

 

Yeah, but he actually conceded a couple of points. That's so uncommon on the internet that it has to be worth something.

 

When did this thread become about Kyle, anyway? Who's trolling who?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

in 09 he had 1.1 oWAR... what would his dWAR have been had he not played about 20% of his games at a position other than 3B?

 

1.1 oWAR in 147 games extrapolates to 1.21 in 162. He would have needed 0.8 dWAR/162 to pass the 2.0 threshold. That's pretty lofty, I don't think any metrics have him there at 3b.

[hankp101]

For those that hate the move, what is the superior alternative to some combination of Stewart/Baker/DeWitt that you'd prefer at 3B this year? None of the available options are that appetizing to me at the price for which they'd likely come. When viewed through that lense, it seems maybe Stewart is a stopgap with some upside. Maybe we get lucky. If we don't, we still have Baker and DeWitt in house to fall back on. Not an inspiring move, but I just don't see much more that could have been done.

[pccubfan]

People who have put up a 2-fWAR season in MLB:

 

Ryan Theriot

Darwin Barney

Rich Hill

Lenny Harris

Shawn Estes

Ian Stewart

 

People who have peaked at 1.5 fWAR:

Ian Stewart

Neifi Perez

 

I'm too lazy to look this up to see if it is accurate, but if it is, that is funny.