Cubs trade for Ian Stewart/Weathers pg. 5 (Colvin+DJ)

[WilcoFan]

Jesus, its been a whole month. The Cubs have made two moves, and only one player who anyone actually wanted has signed a contract thus far.

 

Anyone even remotely freaking out or projecting any level of judgment on the FO right now is dumb.

[XZero771679666304]

so again, what exactly would you have liked them to do differently so far?

 

Not acquire Ian Stewart.

 

What is wrong with this deal? Neither of the pieces we gave up will be missed, and we got the two most talented players. 2MM is not worth hand wringing over.

[Guest]

We've done one of those so far. Who says that's the prototype for what the team will accomplish?

 

I didn't say it was. I said "I wonder." Because we only have a handful of major holes to fill, and it seems like we just filled one of them with that type of player.

 

I'm mainly worried because we do kinda seem to be running out of money. I really, really hate these little $2 million overpays that add up and rob a roster of its potential.

Ian Stewart is running us out of money? Really?

 

You may not be overreacting, but you're utilizing more than a bit of hyperbole.

[dew1679666265]

nobody wants pujols at 250m

 

I did. I'd have been fine with the Cubs matching, or even slightly exceeding, that offer.

 

That said, I'm not upset over the offseason thus far, just slightly disappointed. We have such a desperate need for impact players and the two primary ones I wanted - Pujols and Wilson - are off the board. I had no interest whatsoever in Bell, Buehrle, or Reyes and I have no problem with Marwin and Colvin being gone, but I feel like we overpaid giving up DJ for Stewart and we gave away Flaherty for nothing to top that off.

 

I trust Theo, though.

[Tracer Bullet]

Not a big fan of the name Ian.

 

Ray. I [expletive] hate Ian.

 

Me too.

WHAT [expletive] IAN GUY

 

Yes

[Hairyducked Idiot]

You may not be overreacting, but you're utilizing more than a bit of hyperbole.

 

I'm also annoyed to find out that we're taking a $5 million hit to Pena.

 

But yes, I have a big dislike for the little overpays. It adds up.

[XZero771679666304]

nobody wants pujols at 250m

 

I did. I'd have been fine with the Cubs matching, or even slightly exceeding, that offer.

 

 

I'm having a hard time figuring out how people can feel this way. It's way too much money a few too many years. I really think people were just enamored with the idea of nabbing a once in a generation player from our rival more than making a prudent long term move.

 

Five or six years from now we'll be thanking god we didn't go there.

[dew1679666265]

What is wrong with this deal? Neither of the pieces we gave up will be missed, and we got the two most talented players. 2MM is not worth hand wringing over.

 

If DJ can play second in the majors, we'll miss him. If Theo/Hoyer determined that he can't, then the trade looks much better.

Edited December 9, 2011 by dew

[XZero771679666304]

You may not be overreacting, but you're utilizing more than a bit of hyperbole.

 

I'm also annoyed to find out that we're taking a $5 million hit to Pena.

 

But yes, I have a big dislike for the little overpays. It adds up.

 

Overpaying for guys like Grabow et al, yes. Getting worked up over 2MM for Ian Stewart is a tad irrational.

[XZero771679666304]

What is wrong with this deal? Neither of the pieces we gave up will be missed, and we got the two most talented players. 2MM is not worth hand wringing over.

 

If DJ can play second in the majors, we'll miss him.

 

We have no shortage of MI, and D.J. was nothing special. We won't miss him.

[Little Slide Rooter]

nobody wants pujols at 250m

 

I did. I'd have been fine with the Cubs matching, or even slightly exceeding, that offer.

 

That said, I'm not upset over the offseason thus far, just slightly disappointed. We have such a desperate need for impact players and the two primary ones I wanted - Pujols and Wilson - are off the board. I had no interest whatsoever in Bell, Buehrle, or Reyes and I have no problem with Marwin and Colvin being gone, but I feel like we overpaid giving up DJ for Stewart and we gave away Flaherty for nothing to top that off.

 

I trust Theo, though.

 

Letting Flaherty go exposed never sat well with me. As for DJ for Stewart think in terms of potential. Stewarts been in the big leagues for 4 yeas now without much success, but there's the hope the a change in scenery and coaching can help him reach that potential as a possible star player. LeMahieu, on the other hand has a decent shot to be a serviceable big leaguer, but he'll likely end up somewhere between Aaron Miles and Mark Teahen as a utility guy with a bit of pop. 3rd base was one of out biggest needs and now we have te remainder of the winter to focus on 1st base, hopefully a front end starter, and maybe even a 2nd baseman. I'm very happy with this trade, probably happier than I should be. I just sincerely hope that it isn't the highlight of the offseason.

[El Duderino]

dj is what? a slightly better Barney?

[Guest]

LeMahieu is a homeless man's Jeff Cirillo. He dreams of being a second division starter.

[dew1679666265]

We have no shortage of MI, and D.J. was nothing special. We won't miss him.

 

We had no shortage of MI - we just gave three of them away and got a lottery ticket in return. I'm not against this trade, but I don't feel like it was a particularly good move either. Probably my biggest disappointment is that it almost certainly takes us out of the running for Headley, which is fine if the Pads were asking the moon but disappointing if he could have been had for a reasonable price.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

The more I read about him and look at him, the more Weathers kind of intrigues me. You can't teach stuff, and I don't mind turning a sure mediocrity like LeMahieu into a long-shot talent like Weathers.

[dew1679666265]

I'm having a hard time figuring out how people can feel this way. It's way too much money a few too many years. I really think people were just enamored with the idea of nabbing a once in a generation player from our rival more than making a prudent long term move.

 

Five or six years from now we'll be thanking god we didn't go there.

 

It was the mix of him likely being fantastically productive (even if he simply repeated his 5-6 WAR performance of last year) for at least the front half of his contract plus our complete and utter dearth of major league talent at first (save for Vogelbach) that made me willing to commit that much to Pujols. I don't think it's safe to assume a normal aging curve for one of the greatest players ever and with our payroll and desperate need at first, it was a good gamble to take.

[Guest]

We have no shortage of MI, and D.J. was nothing special. We won't miss him.

 

We had no shortage of MI - we just gave three of them away and got a lottery ticket in return. I'm not against this trade, but I don't feel like it was a particularly good move either. Probably my biggest disappointment is that it almost certainly takes us out of the running for Headley, which is fine if the Pads were asking the moon but disappointing if he could have been had for a reasonable price.

I've been consistent in my disbelief that Headley would be offered by the Pads for a reasonable return. It just never made sense to me.

[XZero771679666304]

I'm having a hard time figuring out how people can feel this way. It's way too much money a few too many years. I really think people were just enamored with the idea of nabbing a once in a generation player from our rival more than making a prudent long term move.

 

Five or six years from now we'll be thanking god we didn't go there.

 

It was the mix of him likely being fantastically productive (even if he simply repeated his 5-6 WAR performance of last year) for at least the front half of his contract plus our complete and utter dearth of major league talent at first (save for Vogelbach) that made me willing to commit that much to Pujols. I don't think it's safe to assume a normal aging curve for one of the greatest players ever and with our payroll and desperate need at first, it was a good gamble to take.

 

His numbers indicate he's already in decline. He's not HOF Pujols anymore. He'll rebound a bit next year, but imo he'll be a 2-3 WAR player at most five years from now.

[dew1679666265]

Letting Flaherty go exposed never sat well with me. As for DJ for Stewart think in terms of potential. Stewarts been in the big leagues for 4 yeas now without much success, but there's the hope the a change in scenery and coaching can help him reach that potential as a possible star player. LeMahieu, on the other hand has a decent shot to be a serviceable big leaguer, but he'll likely end up somewhere between Aaron Miles and Mark Teahen as a utility guy with a bit of pop. 3rd base was one of out biggest needs and now we have te remainder of the winter to focus on 1st base, hopefully a front end starter, and maybe even a 2nd baseman. I'm very happy with this trade, probably happier than I should be. I just sincerely hope that it isn't the highlight of the offseason.

 

Theo and Hoyer are excellent evaluators of talent, so I won't criticize the trade. It simply doesn't excite me.

[Guest]

Christ, you'd think it was February the way people are freaking out right now.

 

Nobody is freaking out. Well, maybe jersey, but he always does. I'm a little annoyed and a little concerned, but that's a long long way from freaking out.

 

USSoccer has been freaking out since we smartly let Ramirez walk.

[davell]

The big change in philosophy is really apparent, even in this small trade. We traded 2 guys that were Hendry/Wilken " surefire major league players" for 2 guys with "boom or bust" potential. I've always thought taking risks was better than taking averagish type guys in the draft and even in this deal, we're already starting to see a philosophic change in the types of players we target. Stewart cost us very little. In a year, if he has the type year he's capable of, he could net us a very nice return. Colvin and DJ just didn't have that ability. Maybe it works out, maybe it doesn't. But, it's worth a 2 million dollar gamble to find out.

[XZero771679666304]

We have no shortage of MI, and D.J. was nothing special. We won't miss him.

 

We had no shortage of MI - we just gave three of them away and got a lottery ticket in return. I'm not against this trade, but I don't feel like it was a particularly good move either. Probably my biggest disappointment is that it almost certainly takes us out of the running for Headley, which is fine if the Pads were asking the moon but disappointing if he could have been had for a reasonable price.

I've been consistent in my disbelief that Headley would be offered by the Pads for a reasonable return. It just never made sense to me.

 

Yeah, he's one of the few decent offensive players the Pads have, relatively cheap and under team control for the next few years. If we were going to get him, it was going to cost us.

 

I thought if Theo/Jed could use Marmol as the centerpiece they could get away with giving up lesser prospects, but that ship sailed with the Street trade.

 

Giving up top prospects for a guy who may or may not be an .800 OPS guy at 3B wouldn't jive with the business plan.

Edited December 9, 2011 by XZero77

[Guest]

Bruce Levine was on ESPN1000 about an hour or two ago to report the trade and said that Stewart was suffering through a wrist injury this year and that they checked out the medicals and his wrist is sound now.

 

 

I'm not sure how people can say he hasn't had much success when he had a fairly solid first 2-3 years. Even almost managed an .800 OPS with just a .228 average.

 

I haven't looked closely enough to figure how much Coors played into those numbers, but he was at the very least decent prior to 2011.

[dew1679666265]

I've been consistent in my disbelief that Headley would be offered by the Pads for a reasonable return. It just never made sense to me.

 

You're probably right that Headley's price tag just remained too high. My thinking was simply that the Padres might value 2-3 good, young non-established players (McNutt, Vitters, maybe Rhee or someone similar) over one good, young established player. I tend to agree with XZero, though, that our best shot at getting Headley disappeared when the Padres got Street and no longer had a need for Marmol.

[XZero771679666304]

Bruce Levine was on ESPN1000 about an hour or two ago to report the trade and said that Stewart was suffering through a wrist injury this year and that they checked out the medicals and his wrist is sound now.

 

 

I'm not sure how people can say he hasn't had much success when he had a fairly solid first 2-3 years. Even almost managed an .800 OPS with just a .228 average.

 

I haven't looked closely enough to figure how much Coors played into those numbers, but he was at the very least decent prior to 2011.

 

There's about a .030 lean towards home in OPS over his career. Pretty neutral, especially for Rox players.