Cubs trade for Ian Stewart/Weathers pg. 5 (Colvin+DJ)

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Stewart wasn't the only guy we picked up in that trade.

 

I find this article interesting, in light of the two pitchers we've acquired this offseason and the possibility of signing Yu Darvish:

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/you-shall-know-our-velocity/

[Tyrant]

Stewart wasn't the only guy we picked up in that trade.

 

I find this article interesting, in light of the two pitchers we've acquired this offseason and the possibility of signing Yu Darvish:

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/you-shall-know-our-velocity/

 

Interesting, but not that surprising I guess.

 

Loosely related, has anyone ever looked to see if there's a correlation between velocity and injury? I know some people theorize about higher velocity putting more stress on the arm, but didn't know if anything had ever been examined.

[treebird]

i think i liked hating tyler colvin and starting threads about how much he sucked more than i will like ian stewart's utter mediocrity (if things work out and he doesn't just ops 214 or whatever again)

 

verdict: BAD TRADE

[Tracer Bullet]

Reading a couple of different sites, because it's hard to keep up.

 

Was it mentioned here that this deal was apparently agreed to on Tuesday, and Stewart flew to Chicago for a medical evaluation?

 

The Cubs' new ability to completely shut down leaks is both maddening and awesome.

 

Purple shirt guy is a one-hit wonder

[XZero771679666304]

I guess my view on the trade is that having Stewart and Baker at 3B isn't going to be any worse than the Baker/DeWitt platoon we were likely looking at before the trade. And there is at least the possibility he hits for some power. And the guys we gave up? A mediocre IF and what is basically Ian Stewart without the walks at a position we don't need filled.

 

If there were a bunch of alternatives out there, I'd take a dimmer view of this, but there really aren't. It's not sexy at all, but it's a worthwhile risk to take for low cost. If it doesn't work out, we move on without much lost.

Edited December 9, 2011 by XZero77

[MSG T]

Stewart wasn't the only guy we picked up in that trade.

 

I find this article interesting, in light of the two pitchers we've acquired this offseason and the possibility of signing Yu Darvish:

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/you-shall-know-our-velocity/

 

Interesting, but not that surprising I guess.

 

Loosely related, has anyone ever looked to see if there's a correlation between velocity and injury? I know some people theorize about higher velocity putting more stress on the arm, but didn't know if anything had ever been examined.

 

 

From what I've read about the biomechanics of it, assuming the same mechanics, throwing harder puts more stress on the arm. However, bad mechanics will put much more stress on the arm. For example, Randy Johnson would put more stress on his arm than Greg Maddux, even though they both had good overall mechanics. Stephen Strasburg, Mark Pryor, etc having bad timing issues and throwing hard, put way more stress on the arm than Johnson would. It just kind of depends on what the mechanical issue is as to whether it puts more stress on the elbow or shoulder.

 

The mechanical issue is partly why throwing breaking pitches at a young age are blamed for arm problems. Young pitchers tend to not have solid mechanics, nor do they tend to be able to repeat their mechanics consistently. I'm not letting my son throw breaking pitches, yet, but I've got him working with a pitching coach I trust, and we're reinforcing the mechanics consistently, much more so than the speed or accuracy at this point. Pitching arm in vertical position when the front foot hits the ground so the shoulder isn't rotating while the body goes forward and rotates. With the consistent mechanics he's able to throw hard and accurate most of the time. I've definitely gotten an education on mechanics in the last couple of years with my son working on it pretty intensely.

 

Now, I haven't watched Weathers throw to know if he has any mechanical flaws, so how this relates to him, I have no clue.

[jersey cubs fan]

I guess my view on the trade is that having Stewart and Baker at 3B isn't going to be any worse than the Baker/DeWitt platoon we were likely looking at before the trade. And there is at least the possibility he hits for some power. And the guys we gave up? A mediocre IF and what is basically Ian Stewart without the walks at a position we don't need filled.

 

There's still need for OF help. They don't have a 160 game guy out there.

[MSG T]

I guess my view on the trade is that having Stewart and Baker at 3B isn't going to be any worse than the Baker/DeWitt platoon we were likely looking at before the trade. And there is at least the possibility he hits for some power. And the guys we gave up? A mediocre IF and what is basically Ian Stewart without the walks at a position we don't need filled.

 

There's still need for OF help. They don't have a 160 game guy out there.

 

 

Agreed. But this deal doesn't hurt their OF situation.

[XZero771679666304]

I guess my view on the trade is that having Stewart and Baker at 3B isn't going to be any worse than the Baker/DeWitt platoon we were likely looking at before the trade. And there is at least the possibility he hits for some power. And the guys we gave up? A mediocre IF and what is basically Ian Stewart without the walks at a position we don't need filled.

 

There's still need for OF help. They don't have a 160 game guy out there.

 

The Cubs can fill a 4th OF position from within nearly as easily as before the trade.

[Banedon]

Mike (Belvidere, IL)

 

 

Could you give us a (brief) breakdown of the Cubs-Rockies trade? For example, do you project Ian Stewart as an average to above-average 3B? Is the pitcher the Cubs obtained a prospect at all?

 

Klaw (11:07 AM)

 

 

I will blog about this later - I have a crazy day scheduled, but the only time I could chat was first thing - but I see it this way: The Rockies get two firmly below-average players. Colvin has horrible plate discipline, can't hit LHP, and plays a corner. LeMahieu makes contact, doesn't walk or hit for any power (or project to do so), and can't really play the left side of the infield. Stewart was a fringy regular for three years before 2011, and Jim Tracy's capacity to mismanage players appears to be infinite, so there's a justification for thinking a change of scenery allows Stewart to reach his ceiling, avg to above-avg 3b. Weathers was 92-96 for me in fall league, slider wasn't as good as it was pre-TJ; walked a man an inning in the regular season but he wasn't hitting the backstop or anything in AFL.

 

Klaw (11:08 AM)

 

 

So I see the Cubs' perspective here. Take on a little more risk for more than enough upside to justify it.

 

[Hairyducked Idiot]

If Keith Law likes it I feel even more justified in hating it.

[apete6]

If Keith Law likes it I feel even more justified in hating it.

 

But Sczur is the next Juan Pierre, how can you doubt Law?!!!

[Tracer Bullet]

It's not your opinion that folks have been objecting to.

[mul21]

If Keith Law likes it I feel even more justified in hating it.

 

Man, even when he's positive about something he's dropping back door jabs. He must hate life.

[mookie]

I like the trade, especially considering other 3rd base options. Next.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

It's not your opinion that folks have been objecting to.

 

It's the only thing I'm on this thread to discuss. Anyone want to create a "Kyle's Personality" thread, we can have all kinds of fun. It probably goes in Social or Rants and not Transactions, though.

[treebird]

It's not your opinion that folks have been objecting to.

 

It's the only thing I'm on this thread to discuss. Anyone want to create a "Kyle's Personality" thread, we can have all kinds of fun. It probably goes in Social or Rants and not Transactions, though.

 

 

which of those do you not post in, i'm going to go start it

[WilcoFan]

I'm amazed that this is still getting discussed.

 

It's not that anyone has a problem with people objecting to the trade; reasonable people can disagree. The problem is the over-the-top vitriol this trade has created and the exaggeration of its importance, both in terms of its relationship to the Cubs' payroll and to the philosophy of the GM/Front Office. The idea that this trade (a) hampers the Cubs' payroll in any meaningful way or (b) demonstrates a "small market mindset" that will permeate the club throughout the coming years is, frankly, stupid.

 

It is a low-risk, medium to high-reward trade that, worst case scenario, loses this team $1.5 million (or, roughly 1/3 of John Grabow's salary last year). In a market that is clearly bereft of even above average 3B that represent any kind of value, this trade allows for the team to give someone a shot who may or may not pay off in a year that, even had the team made several upgrades, is still likely to be a transitional year.

 

Furthermore, to insinuate that this deal somehow represents "small market mentality" ignores the fact that only ONE player who anyone on this board suggested was a reasonable target has been signed thus far (and at a rate with which many were uncomfortable), and exactly zero major trades have occurred. The process of rebuilding a dead franchise will take a long time, and I, for one, am glad that the people currently in charge have that responsibility.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

It is a low-risk, medium to high-reward trade that, worst case scenario, loses this team $1.5 million (or, roughly 1/3 of John Grabow's salary last year).

 

Disagree. It's a low-risk, low-reward trade that, in the most likely scenario, has us losing extra games in 2012 because we are running out a terrible third baseman who is going to get $1.5 to $2.5 million more than he is worth.

[Little Slide Rooter]

It is a low-risk, medium to high-reward trade that, worst case scenario, loses this team $1.5 million (or, roughly 1/3 of John Grabow's salary last year).

 

Disagree. It's a low-risk, low-reward trade that, in the most likely scenario, has us losing extra games in 2012 because we are running out a terrible third baseman who is going to get $1.5 to $2.5 million more than he is worth.

 

Best case scenario Stewart bats .300/.450/.550 with 40 home runs. Worst case scenario he bats .125/.200/.275 and runs over Starlin Castro with his car.

 

Even the most notorious media douches are indifferent at worst about this trade. I think Kyles the only person out there who has an actual problem with it.

Edited December 9, 2011 by Little Slide Rooter

[MSG T]

It is a low-risk, medium to high-reward trade that, worst case scenario, loses this team $1.5 million (or, roughly 1/3 of John Grabow's salary last year).

 

Disagree. It's a low-risk, low-reward trade that, in the most likely scenario, has us losing extra games in 2012 because we are running out a terrible third baseman who is going to get $1.5 to $2.5 million more than he is worth.

 

Best case scenario Stewart bats .300/.450/.550 with 40 home runs. Worst case scenario he bats .125/.200/.275 and runs over Starlin Castro with his car.

 

Even the most notorious media douches as meh at worst on this trade. I think Kyles the only person out there who has an actual problem with it.

 

 

Kyle would probably tell you he'd aim for Starlin but miss.

[davell]

Kyle, who did you want at 3B for us in 2012?

[Tyrant]

It is a low-risk, medium to high-reward trade that, worst case scenario, loses this team $1.5 million (or, roughly 1/3 of John Grabow's salary last year).

 

Disagree. It's a low-risk, low-reward trade that, in the most likely scenario, has us losing extra games in 2012 because we are running out a terrible third baseman who is going to get $1.5 to $2.5 million more than he is worth.

 

Best case scenario Stewart bats .300/.450/.550 with 40 home runs. Worst case scenario he bats .125/.200/.275 and runs over Starlin Castro with his car.

 

Even the most notorious media douches as meh at worst on this trade. I think Kyles the only person out there who has an actual problem with it.

 

 

Kyle would probably tell you he'd aim for Starlin but miss.

 

Kyle doesn't like Castro either, so he probably wouldn't even care.

[Guest]

If Keith Law likes it I feel even more justified in hating it.

 

You're going to feel justified in hating a lot of our moves, then, because Theo basically has Law in his back pocket.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Best case scenario Stewart bats .300/.450/.550 with 40 home runs. Worst case scenario he bats .125/.200/.275 and runs over Starlin Castro with his car.

 

Even the most notorious media douches as meh at worst on this trade. I think Kyles the only person out there who has an actual problem with it.

 

The funny part of this post is that you tried to make the worst-case batting line absurdly low, and it's still higher than his actual OPS from 2011.

 

The media douches right now are focused on the trade itself, the relative value of the various players.

 

Eventually, it's going to set in that the 2012 starting 3b for the Chicago Cubs is a guy who couldn't even hold a roster spot on the 73-89 2011 Rockies.