Re: What would you deal Garza for?

[davell]

Or he wants to be dealt to a contender possibly. Although, this could backfire and keep the offers lower than what we'd eventually accept. Of course, I guess to maximize a return, we COULD send money in the deal. I doubt we'd do it on a guy that we shouldn't have to though.

[SouthSideRyan]

Garza doesn't want to be extended with the team as it is. Let him play out the contract, and re-sign him when the team's actually good.

[Clem Fandango]

Garza doesn't want to be extended with the team as it is. Let him play out the contract, and re-sign him when the team's actually good.

 

Or we could try and trade him for a young pitcher that will be probably be better than him and cost several dozen million dollars less in the long run and have much longer control over

[SouthSideRyan]

Garza doesn't want to be extended with the team as it is. Let him play out the contract, and re-sign him when the team's actually good.

 

Or we could try and trade him for a young pitcher that will be probably be better than him and cost several dozen million dollars less in the long run and have much longer control over

 

Yep, those are easy to come by.

[davell]

I want Garza traded. But, the success percentage of prospects, even as good of ones as Turner, is still very low. So, unless we can get at least close to what we gave up for him(2 top 100 guys, another top 10 prospect from a system and 2 fringe guys), I certainly see why we may hold onto him.

[seanimal]

Garza doesn't want to be extended with the team as it is. Let him play out the contract, and re-sign him when the team's actually good.

 

exactly.

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

I want Garza traded. But, the success percentage of prospects, even as good of ones as Turner, is still very low. So, unless we can get at least close to what we gave up for him(2 top 100 guys, another top 10 prospect from a system and 2 fringe guys), I certainly see why we may hold onto him.

 

Not for nothing, I like Porcello more than Turner. I would love a Porcello - Castellanos - Smyly - Other/Fodder for Garza trade. I think between Porcello and Smyly there's a #2 starter in there.

[treebird]

I think between Porcello and Smyly there's a #2 starter in there.

 

only if all these guys are friends and turner is a jerk and always insists on standing in the middle

[JeffH]

Not for nothing, I like Porcello more than Turner.

 

Are you hopped up on the dope?

[Little Slide Rooter]

I think between Porcello and Smyly there's a #2 starter in there.

 

only if all these guys are friends and turner is a jerk and always insists on standing in the middle

 

That was confusing and horrible. And that's coming from me.

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

Not for nothing, I like Porcello more than Turner.

 

Are you hopped up on the dope?

 

 

What's not to like about Porcello? He had a couple bad seasons at 21-22? Spilled milk to me. Still think everything is there to be a top pitcher. Size, youth, stuff, and health are all there. Mechanics need some work but he's not exactly crapping the bed there.

 

What's so super amazing cant miss about Turner? What happens when he hits his bumps? About the only true, standout advantage is service time and that can be cleared up with a reasonable contract.

[TruffleShuffle]

What's not to like about Porcello?

 

the K rate hovering around 5 per 9 innings pitched throughout his entire major league career, which isn't far from his minor league K rate. #2 starters on good teams need to miss bats, and porcello hasn't shown that ability at all.

[UMFan83]

I think between Porcello and Smyly there's a #2 starter in there.

 

only if all these guys are friends and turner is a jerk and always insists on standing in the middle

 

That was confusing and horrible. And that's coming from me.

 

Sweet. I was wondering what your thoughts were on this argument.

[Rob]

I like Porcello more than most around here, but even I can't say I'd be happy about a deal with him as the centerpiece. Hell, if he's even the #2 piece in a deal we had better be getting back some very interesting third and fourth pieces.

[davell]

The K rate doesn't bother me THAT much when a guy is really young for his level. This is really meant for Turner, who's rate isn't eyepopping. Porcello's is more worrisome, as his K rate is almost nonexistent. But, my main concern with him is his service time. A reasonable contract may not be possible with him. I'd take Turner 100 times out of 100 over him. Would be OK with him as a 2nd piece, but would prefer Smyly, Crosby or Castellanos to him. Turner is the key to any Detroit deal.

[wade]

It's been hinted that Porcello pitches to contact. Whether that's true, a mandate, or his decision doesn't seem clear. Many projected him to actually have a good K rate when he was in high school, but he's not thrown the type of breaking balls like he did before he was drafted.

 

And, while he has a good groundball rate, some pitchFX work guys have done don't really show that he pounds the bottom of the zone all that much, which doesn't make much sense.

 

I still like him, but the numbers make it harder and harder. If he doesn't make a big step forward this year I'll have to admit it may never happen.

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

What's not to like about Porcello?

 

the K rate hovering around 5 per 9 innings pitched throughout his entire major league career, which isn't far from his minor league K rate. #2 starters on good teams need to miss bats, and porcello hasn't shown that ability at all.

 

Couple things with this:

 

1 - Tigers had him pitch to contact often. I also think they took away his breaking ball early on, and it's regressed a little.

 

2 - He's got plenty of stuff to pick up that K rate. I'd be infinitely more worried about the K rate if he was a junkballer, but he's not.

 

3 - Turner has never posted great K rates either, and personally I think Porcello's stuff is right there with him.

 

Throw in that he came in at 20 and made an impact and all I see is upside...He does have the disadvantage of being exposed more than Turner, but like I said we haven't seen Turner struggle yet either.

 

I also think he ups the chances of getting Castellanos, who I really like also. I would do a Porcello, Castellanos, Smyly + fodder deal without thinking twice.

[Brett]

Even if you think Porcello is/can be as good as Turner, their financial situations are sufficiently different that Turner's value blows Porcello's away.

[TruffleShuffle]

i just don't see the point of getting porcello. he's already at $3.1m in arbitration and has pitched three full years in the bigs. assuming that he doesn't wake up tomorrow and start striking people out, it would be a progression to being a 7-9K/9 IP guy. and by the point he's there, he's already where garza is right now in terms of salary and service time. and that, to me, is best case scenario - garza's average fastball is 3 to 4 mph faster than porcello's and his breaking ball is sharper. it's quite easy to see porcello just staying as a #4-type pitcher where he's a non tender candidate in his late arbitration years.

[Have a seat, Neifi]

Even if you think Porcello is/can be as good as Turner, their financial situations are sufficiently different that Turner's value blows Porcello's away.

This. Turner's minor league K rates aren't great, but Porcello's major league ones are abominable. Throw in the fact that Turner is younger and cheaper, and it's really a no-brainer as to which player would be preferable in a trade with the Cubs.

[Rob]

i just don't see the point of getting porcello. he's already at $3.1m in arbitration and has pitched three full years in the bigs.

 

That last bit isn't technically true. He's got 2 years and 170 days of service time. So there's still 4 more years of surprisingly expensive club control.

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

Even if you think Porcello is/can be as good as Turner, their financial situations are sufficiently different that Turner's value blows Porcello's away.

 

Yea, it's a pretty huge advantage. That said, that should be much less of an issue because: 1. we're rich and 2. Porcello has had two offseasons to build up animosity while new toys come in to play with. I'm not sure of big of a worry money actually would be. They might even look to get rid of those arb years with a contract...

 

And again, I'm going to insist that most people are sleeping on the talent. More often than not a guy who comes up at 20 and makes an impact ends up being a damn good player...OK, more often than not is unfounded, but probably closer to true than not. I am not losing sleep over some kid struggling in the bigs at 21/22...especially since just 2 years ago he was considered an elite talent and nothing physically has gone wrong since. The guy hasn't even found some consistency in his repertoire yet and he's held his own as a big leaguer. Personally I think he's better put together physically than Turner and is a better athlete too, but that just might be stating too many opinions.

 

Iunno...I'd be fine with Turner (clearly prospects are the in thing) but with our super sleuth we love to find steals FO I would love for the Cubs to get their hands on Porcello. Just saw this year a talented young AL pitcher (who too many slept on prior to the season too) come into the NL and pick up more K's and groundballs...That happens to Porcello and suddenly he's back on top of the world.

 

Oh and as far as fastball velocity goes...Porcello throws his 2-seamer way more often than Garza too. Overall, he can bring heat if he has to.

[dew1679666265]

That said, that should be much less of an issue because: 1. we're rich

 

While Porcello's cost doesn't bother me if Theo/Hoyer are convinced he can be a star, the fact that we're rich doesn't mean you completely disregard money. Porcello is a young, highly touted pitcher who has struggled a lot in the majors and is kind of getting expensive. Turner is a younger, highly touted pitcher who hasn't made the majors yet and is very inexpensive.

 

Considering both are very young, both are very unproven, both are/have been very highly touted, and Turner is much cheaper than Porcello, I'd prefer Turner.

[CubsWin]

Anyone else hear the rumor that the Tigers would be willing to trade Turner and Castellanos for Garza and Soto? From the discussion page on another blog, wonder where it came from. Anyone?

[jumbo]

Anyone else hear the rumor that the Tigers would be willing to trade Turner and Castellanos for Garza and Soto? From the discussion page on another blog, wonder where it came from. Anyone?

 

I saw that. If I remember right, it said that some guys on MLB Radio said it. I don't know who, but my guess is that it was just one of the shows hosts and not a legitimate rumor. Seems to be the only place I've seen it mentioned.