Re: What would you deal Garza for?

[JeffH]

They don't have a lefty in their rotation either, maybe they want Travis Wood? Or maybe, to get Castellanos, they want Vitters or Lake in return? Maybe it's both? How about Garza/Wood/Vitters/ for Turner/Porcello/Castellanos/Smyly/?

 

Other than mental illness, why would anyone get rid of Travis Wood to replace him with Rick Porcello?

[JeffH]

If...

 

...the Tigers are fed up with Porcello and can't see him helping them win a title... (seems possible, given his performance)

 

...and...

 

...Epstein and Hoyer are interested in Porcello... (seems unlikely, given his profile and the things they value)

 

...it might make sense to expand the deal to include a Porcello for Zambrano or Wells swap (with cash included in Zambrano's case, of course).

 

I wonder how Porcello's arsenal would play as a reliever.

[Cubs Evangelist]

They don't have a lefty in their rotation either, maybe they want Travis Wood? Or maybe, to get Castellanos, they want Vitters or Lake in return? Maybe it's both? How about Garza/Wood/Vitters/ for Turner/Porcello/Castellanos/Smyly/?

 

Only in playstation world, would a trade such as this exist.

[toonsterwu]

I'm actually not as down on Porcello as many are. I think he still has the makings to be a potentially solid number 3. I liked the improvements he made this year - going to the change up more didn't impact his GB rate, and he gets a few more whiffs. I think he can keep improving.

 

That said, I don't really care for Porcello in this deal as anything more than a throw-in. The main reason being that he has one more year left at 1.344 million (club option), which is reasonable and fine for a guy who will give you solid end of the rotation production and eat innings, but his two arb years following that would likely be fairly expensive. With the rebuilding being done, getting more cost-controlled years past 2014 is more valuable, and Smyly, Casey Crosby, or Andy Oliver make a lot more sense. To be honest, I'm still a bit more partial to Crosby than the other two, as I think he has far bigger upside, but he might also be far riskier than Smyly, considering his control questions this past season and his recent injury history (although to be fair, Smyly has some medical concerns, but that was from several years back and most seem okay with it now). Any one of the three would be fine (although Oliver would be a clear 3rd for me).

 

Btw, who is the writer at Cubs Den, and what sort of record does he have on these things?

[Little Slide Rooter]

Cubsden is claiming source states that the Tigers would be willing to trade Turner, probably Porcello and 2 prospects for Garza, but they may want another propsect back. I would love to get Turner, Porcello and Smyly(sp) or Oliver.

 

http://www.chicagonow.com/cubs-den/2011/12/latest-on-garza-could-cubs-expand-deal-with-tigers/

 

I think Porcello would be flipped to another team. SD maybe.

 

Not sure exactly what Detroit needs but I wonder if we could sell them on someone like Byrd or a reliever instead of a prospect. I know they have crazy eyes and Albaquerqe but I don't know what the rest oftheir pen looks like. Perhaps Dolis or Carpenter would interest them. I'd prefer keep Wood but of they want a 5th starter, they can have Wells. It might not be the Phillies, but Verlander, Garza, Fister, and Scherzer would be pretty sick.

[toonsterwu]

No to Porcello. Hasn't improved at all. High HR's, low K's, not a good profile.

 

Craig, I'd actually argue that Porcello has improved. All in all, not a huge fan of him in a deal, as noted above, but I feel like it's easy to pick on Porcello at times so I'll make a mild defense of Porcello, in general here (and while I understand JeffH's point with the Tomko comparison, I'd note that Tomko never had Porcello's ability to generate ground balls). He's gone away from a significant reliance, arguably over-reliance on his 2-seamer (which was understandable early, as the Tigers rushed him and his secondary pitches were raw), and increased his usage of his change-up and slider. All this has occurred without a significant loss in his command, and he's seen a slight up-tick in his K rate. The groundball rate isn't as high as it once was, but it's still a very healthy 51.4% (according to fangraphs). Considering his age, development history, and body, I see no reason why he can't improve a bit more.

 

He'll probably never reach the ceiling that some projected when he was drafted, but he looks like he might be able to give a solid run of a few years as a solid number 3 starter.

 

All that said, as noted above, not a fan of Porcello in a deal because he'd be in his final 2 arb years (unless I'm missing something about his contract) in 2013 and 2014, and as it stands now, the Cubs should take more cost-controlled years if possible.

[davell]

If Garza can net us Turner and Smyly and more, I'd send Wood or Vitters over if it got us Castellanos as well.

[toonsterwu]

Cubsden is claiming source states that the Tigers would be willing to trade Turner, probably Porcello and 2 prospects for Garza, but they may want another propsect back. I would love to get Turner, Porcello and Smyly(sp) or Oliver.

 

http://www.chicagonow.com/cubs-den/2011/12/latest-on-garza-could-cubs-expand-deal-with-tigers/

 

I think Porcello would be flipped to another team. SD maybe.

 

Not sure exactly what Detroit needs but I wonder if we could sell them on someone like Byrd or a reliever instead of a prospect. I know they have crazy eyes and Albaquerqe but I don't know what the rest oftheir pen looks like. Perhaps Dolis or Carpenter would interest them. I'd prefer keep Wood but of they want a 5th starter, they can have Wells. It might not be the Phillies, but Verlander, Garza, Fister, and Scherzer would be pretty sick.

 

the back of their pen, Benoit/Valverde, is excellent. They could perhaps use another piece ahead, but I'm not sure how much they'd prioritize that in a deal with Alburquerque and Dan Schlereth, amongst others, ahead. That said, they really rode the back two hard last year.

[Rob]

It seems I like Porcello a lot more than the rest of the board seems to...

 

He's just 23 years old and has posted fWAR's of 2.0, 2.0, and 2.7. It's not like he's a bad pitcher... he's pretty much league average. But he's getting better. His FIP and xFIP have improved each year he's been in the bigs, with last year's 4.06 and 4.02 marks comparing favorably to the recently traded Trevor Cahill (at 4.10 and 3.90).

 

He's absolutely not the centerpiece of a deal... but 3 years of an already league average 23 year old with an exceptional scouting profile who has been steadily improving? Yeah, that's a throw-in I'd be very interested in -- especially if somebody in the front office sees something they can fix or thinks he'd benefit from learning a new pitch (a cutter may solve some of his problems with lefties).

[Guest]

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110125&content_id=16498254&vkey=news_det&c_id=det

 

ha, looks like turner has pitched at wrigley

[Cubs Evangelist]

If Garza can net us Turner and Smyly and more, I'd send Wood or Vitters over if it got us Castellanos as well.

 

I am all for ideas, but what gives the impression that we would trade a starting pitcher we just traded for while giving up our best reliever?

[davell]

If Garza can net us Turner and Smyly and more, I'd send Wood or Vitters over if it got us Castellanos as well.

 

I am all for ideas, but what gives the impression that we would trade a starting pitcher we just traded for while giving up our best reliever?

Because getting a potential elite bat is more important longterm than a starting pitcher with mid rotation potential, at his very best. Not to mention, in this case, I think Smyly will do everything we can hope Wood will do as well.

[toonsterwu]

Was away when Cafardo wrote his Christmas Day comments on available talent left on the market. He noted the Orioles as a possible team in the Garza mix to ponder. I have my doubts the Orioles would be in on Garza, but speaking in terms of a possible talent fit for a swap, it would be a potentially interesting option that hasn't been discussed much. I doubt Machado would be available, but even without him, I'd still have intrigue if they were willing to offer Zach Britton up. There admittedly isn't much else that can headline a package, so if it's no on Machado and Britton, there's not much to build a deal around that I would really like.

 

But if Britton was offered? A package of Britton, a positional talent like Jonathan Schoop, perhaps an arm like Robert Bundy would get me intrigued. I think there would need to be a 4th piece in there, as Schoop's still early in his development, and Bundy's ceiling isn't that high. That said, a Britton/Schoop/Bundy trio would be fairly intriguing, and depending on the rest of the deal, could perhaps be a better deal than what the Tigers could offer (I love Jacob Turner, always thought he got a bit over-looked on account of Shelby Miller, but I would still take Britton over Turner).

 

All that said, I still don't see any reason why the Orioles would get actively involved when they are at least 2 years away from a meaningful push (it's possible to envision Machado up in 2 years, and at that point, hopefully some of their young arms, namely, Britton and Arrieta, have settled down. Adding Garza could only potentially delay that hope, as they aren't ready to compete now.)

 

* As for a 4th piece, I haven't pondered it all that deeply since I only saw the Cafardo piece now. That said, as intriguing as Matusz and Tillman are, their velocity dips are more concerning, and I'm not sure I wouldn't rather gamble on someone like David Baker lower on, or go for upside, arm wise, in someone like Parker Bridwell. Anyhow, as noted, highly doubt the Orioles would be that involved, but just saw the X-mas blurb from Cafardo.

[Backtobanks]

Breaking news:

 

The deal with the Marlins should be completed before midnight tonight. :clapping:

 

Source? Or just trolling?

 

I thought Backtobanks was a decent poster. #-o I really don't see any combination of players that I would want from the Marlins. Maybe they will take Zambrano and Soriano with Garza. :lol:

 

Before he just had the annoying 3-way trade proposals, but he is trending more and more toward annoying troll every day.

 

 

I can't believe you guys don't get sarcasm without highlighting it in green. I was making fun of all of the "breaking news" posts on exactly when and to whom the Garza trade was happening.

[Tracer Bullet]

Breaking news:

 

The deal with the Marlins should be completed before midnight tonight. :clapping:

 

Source? Or just trolling?

 

I thought Backtobanks was a decent poster. #-o I really don't see any combination of players that I would want from the Marlins. Maybe they will take Zambrano and Soriano with Garza. :lol:

 

Before he just had the annoying 3-way trade proposals, but he is trending more and more toward annoying troll every day.

 

 

I can't believe you guys don't get sarcasm without highlighting it in green. I was making fun of all of the "breaking news" posts on exactly when and to whom the Garza trade was happening.

 

How was anyone supposed to know your post was "sarcasm" as it was written?

[Guest]

I wasn't even talking about that post, although that one was sort of annoying.

[Backtobanks]

The deal with the Marlins should be completed before midnight tonight[/color]. :clapping:

 

 

 

 

 

I can't believe you guys don't get sarcasm without highlighting it in green. I was making fun of all of the "breaking news" posts on exactly when and to whom the Garza trade was happening.

 

How was anyone supposed to know your post was "sarcasm" as it was written?

 

Maybe by the 5-6 posts (1 or 2 by me) preceding my post all making fun of the "Breaking News" posts about the "imminent" Garza trade.

[Conky]

http://oi42.tinypic.com/f0z3oj.jpg

[A New Era]

what is that pic? I hate it when the link isn't descriptive like "georgeburns with pepsi can" :)

[YearofDaCubs]

what is that pic? I hate it when the link isn't descriptive like "georgeburns with pepsi can" :)

Probably from the movie grumpy old men

[davell]

I hope something happens soon here. Jurrjens and Floyd are on the market, plus Oswalt, Kuroda, and Jackson. There's plenty of teams needing pitching and Garza's the best out of the bunch, but I don't want to see Toronto or Detroit go in a different direction, because they seem to be the 2 with the most interest and also with the best packages to offer.

[El Duderino]

I'm surprised Detroit doesn't just go hard after Kuroda. Seems like a perfect fit. Turner can spend the whole year at AAA and replace Kuroda in 2013.

[Rob]

I'm wondering if Detroit wouldn't have some interest in Marlon Byrd coming along with Garza. Right now their OF is Brennan Boesch / Austin Jackson / Delmon Young, all of whom have some serious question marks.

[Post Count Padder]

Gonna pull a B2B move here for the first time, so just stay with me.

 

Cubs get: Rizzo, Turner, Smyly

Tigers get: Garza, Byrd

Padres get: Porcello, Tigers prospect

 

Cubs get their first baseman and two high upside starters. Tigers get Garza and some outfield insurance. Padres get a starter they could plug into their rotation to make up somewhat for the loss of Latos. And playing in Petco could help his numbers.

 

Laugh away.

[El Duderino]

Gonna pull a B2B move here for the first time, so just stay with me.

 

Cubs get: Rizzo, Turner, Smyly

Tigers get: Garza, Byrd

Padres get: Porcello, Tigers prospect

 

Cubs get their first baseman and two high upside starters. Tigers get Garza and some outfield insurance. Padres get a starter they could plug into their rotation to make up somewhat for the loss of Latos. And playing in Petco could help his numbers.

 

Laugh away.

 

the prospect the Padres get would have to be pretty good, which means the Tigers are giving up quite a bit here.