Zambrano says he is retiring

[jersey cubs fan]

The Pacers. Most people I talk to about the team don't want anything to do with them. They went to games previously, but they just have no interest right now even with the Pacers getting better. Some of the Pacers fans will come back as they get closer and closer to contention, but the town will never be Pacers crazy again like they were during the 90's.

 

They've been under .500 for 5 seasons. They were Eastern Conference finalists half the time in the 90's. Those blowhards you are talking to are full of crap.

 

Besides, you are talking about a podunk town that struggles to support 2 sports franchises, none of which comes close to having the Cubs level of built in support. The Cubs aren't going to suffer a net decline in revenue because of the presence of Carlos Zambrano and it is pointless to pretend otherwise.

[SouthSideRyan]

I've seen a fanbase finally turn on a team because of character issues, and it's not pretty. Once those fans leave, you will never get some of them back.

 

When?

 

You may think that could theoretically happen, but there is absolutely no reason to pretend it's at all likely with the Cubs.

 

The minute this team looks like a contender everybody will be on the bandwagon with or without a malcontent. Some blowhards may talk about giving up on the Cubs because Zambrano is still there, but they are liars and/or idiots, and easily replacable with the next round of success.

 

 

The Pacers. Most people I talk to about the team don't want anything to do with them. They went to games previously, but they just have no interest right now even with the Pacers getting better. Some of the Pacers fans will come back as they get closer and closer to contention, but the town will never be Pacers crazy again like they were during the 90's.

 

Obviously the Cubs are still going to be really high in attendance no matter what because their fanbase is so huge that losing a small percentage of them isn't going to make a huge difference. But if keeping Z doesn't provide much extra value either, then losing those fans might be considered the worse choice.

 

If the Pacers get another Reggie Miller to be the face of the franchise, the fans won't give a [expletive] about Ron Artest.

 

People aren't coming out to support a losing team starring Roy Hibbert and Mike Dunleavy.

[SouthSideRyan]

The Pacers in the post-Reggie era have averaged just over 36 wins per season. Last year they won 37. They're probably the most boring team in the league.

[CubColtPacer]

The Pacers in the post-Reggie era have averaged just over 36 wins per season. Last year they won 37. They're probably the most boring team in the league.

 

Maybe so (although this next year they almost certainly won't be anywhere near boring with their core+immense cap space...of course the NBA might not have a season this year). I'm just basing this off of conversations I've had with people. Some of them I believe and some of them I don't. I believe it is possible for something other than losing to turn off a fan though. I don't think people are automatically fans for life, especially the casual side of the fanbase (which is probably 70% of most fanbases).

[jersey cubs fan]

Artest was suspended forever then traded. If those fans gave up on the team because of character issues and the perception that the team has no standards then what the hell good did it do to get rid of the guy? They gave up on the team because that was the last year they were over .500 and they've sucked since then.

[CubColtPacer]

Artest was suspended forever then traded. If those fans gave up on the team because of character issues and the perception that the team has no standards then what the hell good did it do to get rid of the guy? They gave up on the team because that was the last year they were over .500 and they've sucked since then.

 

Artest wasn't the big problem (although the Pacers didn't give up on him immediately-it was only after he demanded to be traded that they sent him home and then out). It was Stephen Jackson, Shawne Williams, and especially Jamaal Tinsley that eventually brought it all tumbling down. They eventually got rid of all those guys (and told Tinsley to stay home for years without trading him or buying him out) but it was too late by that point.

[jersey cubs fan]

The Pacers in the post-Reggie era have averaged just over 36 wins per season. Last year they won 37. They're probably the most boring team in the league.

 

Maybe so (although this next year they almost certainly won't be anywhere near boring with their core+immense cap space...of course the NBA might not have a season this year). I'm just basing this off of conversations I've had with people. Some of them I believe and some of them I don't. I believe it is possible for something other than losing to turn off a fan though. I don't think people are automatically fans for life, especially the casual side of the fanbase (which is probably 70% of most fanbases).

 

I believe you are taking out of your behind.

 

People aren't going to stay away from a winning Cubs team. The Oakland A's may struggle to draw support regardless of record because their stadium is horrible and it's in a horrible place. The Atlanta Braves may struggle to sell playoff tickets because Atlanta is quite possibly the worst major sports town in America. Southern cities may struggle to draw support for winning hockey teams because hockey in the South is still very much a new idea with no built in support.

 

But the Chicago freaking Cubs are not going to suffer a net loss of revenue because they continue to employ a player with personality problems. If they continue to suck, they will continue to suffer financially. If they continue to focus on finding scapegoats insteady of stocking their roster with high quality players, they will probably continue to suck. But dumping Zambrano solves nothing and only opens up more short-to-intermediate-term holes.

[SouthSideRyan]

Artest was suspended forever then traded. If those fans gave up on the team because of character issues and the perception that the team has no standards then what the hell good did it do to get rid of the guy? They gave up on the team because that was the last year they were over .500 and they've sucked since then.

 

Artest wasn't the big problem (although the Pacers didn't give up on him immediately-it was only after he demanded to be traded that they sent him home and then out). It was Stephen Jackson, Shawne Williams, and especially Jamaal Tinsley that eventually brought it all tumbling down. They eventually got rid of all those guys (and told Tinsley to stay home for years without trading him or buying him out) but it was too late by that point.

 

Do you think if they had a team full of malcontents and jagoffs the past 5 years but won 50 games a year (think the Jailblazers era) that they'd have sold less tickets?

[jersey cubs fan]

Artest was suspended forever then traded. If those fans gave up on the team because of character issues and the perception that the team has no standards then what the hell good did it do to get rid of the guy? They gave up on the team because that was the last year they were over .500 and they've sucked since then.

 

Artest wasn't the big problem (although the Pacers didn't give up on him immediately-it was only after he demanded to be traded that they sent him home and then out). It was Stephen Jackson, Shawne Williams, and especially Jamaal Tinsley that eventually brought it all tumbling down. They eventually got rid of all those guys (and told Tinsley to stay home for years without trading him or buying him out) but it was too late by that point.

 

It was too late when they stopped winning games. The malcontents are just a convenient excuse for a bunch of racist rednecks.

[CubColtPacer]

Artest was suspended forever then traded. If those fans gave up on the team because of character issues and the perception that the team has no standards then what the hell good did it do to get rid of the guy? They gave up on the team because that was the last year they were over .500 and they've sucked since then.

 

Artest wasn't the big problem (although the Pacers didn't give up on him immediately-it was only after he demanded to be traded that they sent him home and then out). It was Stephen Jackson, Shawne Williams, and especially Jamaal Tinsley that eventually brought it all tumbling down. They eventually got rid of all those guys (and told Tinsley to stay home for years without trading him or buying him out) but it was too late by that point.

 

Do you think if they had a team full of malcontents and jagoffs the past 5 years but won 50 games a year (think the Jailblazers era) that they'd have sold less tickets?

 

Nope, they would have sold more tickets because the part of the fanbase who cares about winning is bigger than the character part. Besides, by then the character damage was already done.

 

Now, if you had asked me which would be better for ticket sales in 2011-2020...that the Brawl had never happened and the Pacers won 35 games for the last 7 years, or that the Pacers just kept getting into legal trouble and won 50 games a year over the past 7, I think more people would buy tickets in the first scenario. Once the Pacers become good again, the fanbase would have been larger if the only reason they went away in the first place was because of losing.

[CubColtPacer]

The Pacers in the post-Reggie era have averaged just over 36 wins per season. Last year they won 37. They're probably the most boring team in the league.

 

Maybe so (although this next year they almost certainly won't be anywhere near boring with their core+immense cap space...of course the NBA might not have a season this year). I'm just basing this off of conversations I've had with people. Some of them I believe and some of them I don't. I believe it is possible for something other than losing to turn off a fan though. I don't think people are automatically fans for life, especially the casual side of the fanbase (which is probably 70% of most fanbases).

 

I believe you are taking out of your behind.

 

People aren't going to stay away from a winning Cubs team. The Oakland A's may struggle to draw support regardless of record because their stadium is horrible and it's in a horrible place. The Atlanta Braves may struggle to sell playoff tickets because Atlanta is quite possibly the worst major sports town in America. Southern cities may struggle to draw support for winning hockey teams because hockey in the South is still very much a new idea with no built in support.

 

But the Chicago freaking Cubs are not going to suffer a net loss of revenue because they continue to employ a player with personality problems. If they continue to suck, they will continue to suffer financially. If they continue to focus on finding scapegoats insteady of stocking their roster with high quality players, they will probably continue to suck. But dumping Zambrano solves nothing and only opens up more short-to-intermediate-term holes.

 

Do I think Wrigley will sell out with a winning Cubs team no matter who is on the team? Yes. The Cubs fanbase is too large for that not to happen.

 

Could this affect attendance of the mediocre Cubs teams and/or merchandise and TV ratings? Yes....not nearly as much as winning or losing does, but somewhat.

[SouthSideRyan]

The NBA has also experienced a precipitous dropoff in popularity, only recently gaining traction, which they will likely give back due to a lost/abbreviated season. I just can't fathom a fan giving up on his team because he didn't like the meanies that were on it 5 years ago. It's ridiculous.

[tfarks]

The NBA has also experienced a precipitous dropoff in popularity, only recently gaining traction, which they will likely give back due to a lost/abbreviated season. I just can't fathom a fan giving up on his team because he didn't like the meanies that were on it 5 years ago. It's ridiculous.

 

I stumbled across a website full of housewives blogging (forget how I got there), had something to do with the Pacers. Probably another strip club incident or something. And they were talking about how they used to go to so many games and love the Pacers, now they're a bunch of thugs they could never support.

 

I think a lot of Pacers fans were spoiled by the awesome 90's teams. They made the playoffs every year, represented the city well. Every report about the team and its players were positive. Look at Rick Carlise quotes that came out recently about how those Pacer teams he was an assistant coach for were had the best veterans he has ever been around. Yeah the same guy who just won with a bunch of good veterans in Dallas.

 

I could go on and on, but of course everything with the brawl and the strip club incidents and gun charges really soured the city and they did not want the team to be a Jailblazers type. So Walsh and Bird overhauled the team and started over. Yeah they have sucked for a while, which is obviously a big deal on attendance. But the fact is the Pacers front office knows how to make a great team and they wanted to do it devoid of bad character players. They're succeeding and rebuilding the right way. The fans will undoubtedly come back, and not just some of them if they were winning with "thugs."

 

Fickle fans or "racist rednecks"? You decide.

[Guest]

Not many people are going stop going to Cub games b/c of Z.

 

The Cubs have stopped putting up with Z b/c he's not pitching up to his contract. They've gone and fucked up again. Instead of handling this privately they've chosen to handle this through the media.

 

Hendry should have said this "obviously we're disappointed with Z's action on the mound. There really is no place for that in baseball. We'll let the league determine what discipline they are going to take. However, we're more concerned with Z the person. We singed him as a teenager and he is part of our family. We are going to sit down with Z and assess the situation and get him the help he needs. Obviously we want and need him to preform at the top of his ability. He's not there right now, so he's probably not going to be pitching until he gets things sorted out. Let me repeat, his actions were inecuseable. He takes full responsibiliy. And were going to do whatever it takes to help him. I don't know if he'll pitch again this year. However our top concern is his physical wellbeing.

[Banedon]

If was able to learn to love Jim Edmonds because the Cubs were winning, I can deal with anyone being on the Cubs when they're winning.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

But the fact is the Pacers front office knows how to make a great team.

 

"fact."

[davearm2]

Not many people are going stop going to Cub games b/c of Z.

 

The Cubs have stopped putting up with Z b/c he's not pitching up to his contract. They've gone and [expletive] up again. Instead of handling this privately they've chosen to handle this through the media.

 

Hendry should have said this "obviously we're disappointed with Z's action on the mound. There really is no place for that in baseball. We'll let the league determine what discipline they are going to take. However, we're more concerned with Z the person. We singed him as a teenager and he is part of our family. We are going to sit down with Z and assess the situation and get him the help he needs. Obviously we want and need him to preform at the top of his ability. He's not there right now, so he's probably not going to be pitching until he gets things sorted out. Let me repeat, his actions were inecuseable. He takes full responsibiliy. And were going to do whatever it takes to help him. I don't know if he'll pitch again this year. However our top concern is his physical wellbeing.

How many times can they go down that road? Forever?

 

Because what you just said, Hendry and the Cubs have said before about Z. They've been covering for him for years, keeping things in-house as much as possible. They can't cover it all up, though. It wasn't anyone with the Cubs that made this latest incident public.

 

Do you believe you can ever reach a point with a player where there are no more second, third, fourth, chances? Because Z has burned through a lot of em, and still nothing has really changed.

[Pushfrog98]

The Pacers. Most people I talk to about the team don't want anything to do with them. They went to games previously, but they just have no interest right now even with the Pacers getting better. Some of the Pacers fans will come back as they get closer and closer to contention, but the town will never be Pacers crazy again like they were during the 90's.

 

They've been under .500 for 5 seasons. They were Eastern Conference finalists half the time in the 90's. Those blowhards you are talking to are full of crap.

 

Besides, you are talking about a podunk town that struggles to support 2 sports franchises, none of which comes close to having the Cubs level of built in support. The Cubs aren't going to suffer a net decline in revenue because of the presence of Carlos Zambrano and it is pointless to pretend otherwise.

I find it best to insult those who have a different mindset as myself. Seems to really get my point across better.

 

And I have a few friends who were huge 49'ers fans. Grew up following Joe Montana, Dwight Clark, Jerry Rice, etc. Then T.O. came along. They couldn't stand the guy and actually stopped following football because of him. Those blowhards. I was able to get them to root for the Bears along with me, but overall, they don't care about football.

 

Just because YOU find it insane that people could react in such a way doesn't make it wrong or improbable.

 

*edit*

Also, the 49'ers were actually still pretty good when they stopped following them. So it wasn't because they sucked for long periods of time that they stopped following.

[Sammy Sofa]

Yeah, he was pretty uppity.

[SouthSideRyan]

Your friends do sound like blowhards

[tfarks]

But the fact is the Pacers front office knows how to make a great team.

 

"fact."

 

How many small market teams have had the success the Pacers have had since the 90's started? The brawl destroyed their reputation but people are glossing over plenty of years before that.

From the 89-90 season they went to the playoffs 16/17 times. And had 9 consecutive appearances before the brawl.

How many big franchises can even claim doing that? Any? In the NBA land of get your superstar and win your title they were successful without it. That's called building a great team.

 

Maybe you want to argue 'great'. Which I'll pass on.

[Sammy Sofa]

Who doesn't have dumb sports fans for friends? One of my best friends in the world claimed to "give up" on the Cubs after they traded Theriot. Big [expletive] deal. I love the guy, but he's an idiot fan.

[J.R.]

If anything, Z is a bigger draw now. People will show up/tune in just to see what happens next.

[SouthSideRyan]

But the fact is the Pacers front office knows how to make a great team.

 

"fact."

 

How many small market teams have had the success the Pacers have had since the 90's started? The brawl destroyed their reputation but people are glossing over plenty of years before that.

From the 89-90 season they went to the playoffs 16/17 times. And had 9 consecutive appearances before the brawl.

How many big franchises can even claim doing that? Any? In the NBA land of get your superstar and win your title they were successful without it. That's called building a great team.

 

Maybe you want to argue 'great'. Which I'll pass on.

 

I'd love to know what the Pacers of the 90s have to do with the "fact" that an entirely new management team "knows" how to build a great team.

 

And Portland had even more consecutive appearances. When your standard for great is making the playoffs and more than half the teams make the playoffs, color me unimpressed.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

But the fact is the Pacers front office knows how to make a great team.

 

"fact."

 

How many small market teams have had the success the Pacers have had since the 90's started? The brawl destroyed their reputation but people are glossing over plenty of years before that.

From the 89-90 season they went to the playoffs 16/17 times. And had 9 consecutive appearances before the brawl.

How many big franchises can even claim doing that? Any? In the NBA land of get your superstar and win your title they were successful without it. That's called building a great team.

 

I'd call that building an okay team and being too dumb to get out of NBA mid-tier hell.